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Blame Game

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by DePack, Sep 26, 2005.

  1. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    I really do enjoy everybody that posts on this forum. I think it's great. It gets heated sometimes and never more so than when an anti-Sherman thread starts. I'm as radical in my support for Sherman as some of you guys are in your disgust for him.

    I was thinking....what is the difference between the Sherman bashers and the Sherman supporters(or apologists...just to be fair)? All of us are huge Packer fans or wouldn't be here.

    I think the answer may be how you watch the game.

    Favre throws a pick.....
    Supporter's think....c'mon Brett....What the hell are you thinking?
    Basher's think.....Christ Sherman....put a leash on him!

    Fergy drops a pass....
    Supporters think......hold on to the friggin' ball.
    Basher's think.....Sherman should make him take those gloves off.

    Roman misses a tackle....
    Supporters think.....Damn they teach you how to tackle in the 6th grade.
    Bashers think.....Sherman doesn't have them tackle enough during practice.

    Longwell misses a field goal left....
    Supporters think..... he choked...
    Bashers think.....I swear I just saw Sherman move the left upright.

    OK..OK.... I may be exagerating a little on the last one.
     
  2. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    no, no you're not, i think i saw some guy clinging onto the upright pulling it inward...come on, we've all seen angels in the outfield before w/ that guy pulling the foul pole
     
  3. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    DEpAcK...

    I would give your boy (Sherman) half a break if I just saw some strategic game planning for games, adjustments made at half time, and CREATIVE play calling on offense..instead of the g-damn PREDICTABLILITY!!!

    JUST ONCE...

    over and over...and over...everybody knows what's comin'...
     
  4. mattresell

    mattresell Cheesehead

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    66 is right. Mistakes happen, maybe not in the numbers we saw yesterday, but it's Sherman's job to get this team in a position where it can overcome those mistakes.
     
  5. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    As strange as this may sound, I tend to agree with 66 on this one. We are doing the same thing every week, and garnering the same lousy results.

    This team is no longer talented enough to approach the game with a "We do what we do..go ahead and try to stop us" attitude. I am not calling for endless trickery because gimmicks do not win on any consistent basis. But damn, the entire bar where I watched the game know what was coming on our numerous 2nd and longs better than 80 percent of the time.

    The lack of creativity, vision and an abject unwllingness to make changes where desperately needed really hurt Mike Sherman in the public opinion arena.
     
  6. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Pack....that's OK...you see what you see. You focus on the coaching, I focus on what I see the players do. That's the only difference between us. Believe me when I say you didn't want to be around me after that loss yesterday. I just don't think a different coach will keep Favre from throwing picks at the most inopportune time, or prevent fergy from dropping passes or most of the other mistakes I saw on the field yesterday.

    There is one thing that does puzzle me that may be a coaching problem. Our receivers are never wide open. No other teams seem to "blow coverages". Have we kept the same patterns in this "west coast offense" for too long? I'm not smart enough to answer that question but I DO know that Brett is still one of the best QB's in the game and why our WR's can't get open needs to be looked at by the coaching staff.
     
  7. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    that was very well put DePack!
     
  8. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    :twisted:

    Ok Depack even people that are extremelly positive and never bashes Sherman are beggibibg to see some of this..

    On your first post I can tell you on every issue I fell I am a supporter, I cant blame Sherman because Fergie never did hold the ball in the interception or al least if he is not going to get it just push it to the gorund to avoid the interception, etc, etc, etc..

    I blame him at this stage for 2 things that can be changed right now: Lack of game planning and lack of spirit in the team, I think he should come with different plans be more agresive, now all the other cocahces know what is coming, and I would love to se him mor energetic in front of the players, I would love to se him exited about a play or upset about another... That will make me happy..

    And I cant see any point in blaming him for mistakes made in the past while drafting of signing contracts... this point is useless right now..
     
  9. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    chamuko...I understand why you feel that way...but MS tends to be very politically correct and reserved in a public setting...I've read that he shows a lot more emotion when out of the public eye. Also, Belichek is very even-keeled on the sideline during a game, so that personality can work.

    I will say I'm a little concerned...the offense is primarily MS' responsibility right now, and for whatever the reason, it is what is holding the Packers back. I, like DePack, feel that a lot more blame should be directed towards the players than what currently is, but I will acknowledge, while admitting that I can't explain it, that the fact that the offense is so stagnant is an indication that MS isn't doing something right...I don't have a good explanation, but obviously something isn't quite clicking.
     
  10. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    That's OK musccy....admitting to having an inkling that SOMETHING is wrong atthe HC position is the first step to recovery.

    Whatever that "IT" is, Sherman ain't got "IT". It seems to me that lessons are not being learned which leads me to believe his message is falling on deaf ears.

    It was reported by several players in an article (forget where) that here is a lack of accountability with some players. Additionally, a player was quoted as saying something along the lines of, "Hey, look at our sideline when we are down 7 points, it looks like we are down by 30." Which leads me to conclude that the players have already, or are on their way, to losing faith/trust in Sherman's ability to lead.

    Food for thought!
     
  11. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    I blame Ryan and Subway.

    Those blames are equal to any others.
     
  12. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
     
  13. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I KNOW IPBprez...shocked the deficant outta me, too!!
     
  14. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    I am going to say it. Are you ready? Are you sure? Ok, here it comes......
    Brett Favre is loosing more games for the Packers than he in winning!
    You can blame everyone from the officials to Sherman to Jeffrey Dahmer, but the truth is that Favre looks like he will end his career as a guy who just flings the ball up for grabs and really doesn’t give a damn as to who comes down with it.
    He is on pace to throw 37 picks this year and has yet to face one of the many top rated defenses that he will go up against this season.
     
  15. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Yeah...that's possible...just as it is possible he is going through one of the numerous incerception-fests he has had throughout his career. They come in bunches for this guy, but that said, this entire offense looks lost, not just him...he only gets the attention.
     
  16. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    phil is right...a lot of people (I'll avoid using names) will do everything in there power to blame every other conceivable player, coach, factor, political party... before they consider blaming Brett, but as phil said, he's been throwing the ball irresponsibly.

    I hope you're right, though, digs...that's certainly been true in the past. The downside, however, is that even if he does snap out of this int-fest, they often seem to return at inopertune times towards the season's end.
     
  17. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I am with you, musccy. I think when most people talk about a QB being over the hill, they refer to the arm, first, and then the legs. To lose either is to lose your game. Favre has both in spades, and he is still a mentally tough hombre. He does not shun standing in the pocket, is willing to take the hit to deliver the ball. He STILL has it all, except he lacks players around him right now...and he burdens himself, or is burdened by the football world, to be the team's savior, and he is pressing. This recklessness has to be reigned in by the staff. Let him be agressive, you will never change that, but the stupid play has to be brought back into check.
     
  18. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    yeah...and although I'm consistantly critical of Brett, I don't mean to imply that I don't respect what he has done, or still could do.

    "Pressing" is a good way to put it. Part of that is out of his desire to win, thus he tries to do it alone, but that just winds up debilitating the team when he keeps throwing those 4-5 ugly balls/game.

    That is one area I fault the coaches on, however. It just doesn't appear that his old habits are changing...although, I guess they didn't change a whole lot under Holmgren either...but still, somehow you need to get through to him that a punt or 2nd and 10 is better than a pick returned for 30 yards.
     
  19. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    musscy,

    Do you see any ever Packer receivers open? Because I sure don't...

    I'm guessing if Brett ran outside the tackles and threw the ball away or took the sack every time there was no one open---you wouldn't like that either...what is he supposed to do if there is no running game working and his receivers can't get open?

    I blame Sherman in not providing Brett with "quality" receivers who know how to get open..or have the talent to...or for not "coaching" or teaching them to run their routes....

    He was a "tight ends" coach after all...perhaps that's why he hates tight ends and never uses them to catch passes...

    or perhaps he forgets that he has them...i don't know which...

    do you?
     
  20. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    A lot of people blame Brett, and if you listened to the press/news confrence deal after the game he admitted he has to be wiser with his throws. He said everything except that he was the reason they lost.

    No one really has to blame Brett. He takes responsability of his actions on his own.
     
  21. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Personally, 66, I do not think it is so much the talent of the receivers, as it is the scheme they are running. They never use secondary routes to force the other team to roll their defenses off coverage to break somebody open. I have never seen this type of play run in any significant or consistent manner. Basically, they go mano a mano and force their receivers to have to constantly fight and scrap for every reception. And occasionally, a blown coverage of exceptional route decision by our WR gets them wide, but t does not appear to be by the design of the coaching staff.
     
  22. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    digs,

    Seems pretty moronic to me...they DON'T have the talent to go mano a mano....

    We're not talking about Terell Owens..or Randy Moss here...(we're talkin' Driver and Ferguson)
     
  23. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    Pack...It does seem like the Packers are having a difficult time getting open right now, but I also pointed out that William Henderson example last week where he was WIDE open (and if it weren't for Simms pointing it out, tv viewers would never see that because obviously the cameras aren't going to focus away from the ball) yet Brett forced it to Fergy because it was the home run play.

    All three components are contributing to the problem right now...something in the play calling or whatever is not freeing the wrs very readily...the wrs aren't getting off the checks or getting open...and Brett keeps trying to force everything when often times the check downs are available.
     
  24. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I would agree here, too... In the Playoffs against St. Louis, Brett threw and outrageous number of picks... several were fluke interceptions along the way, but STATS do not take into acount how they were taken away, only that they were...

    I've said it for two years now - Brett needs to have a Coach who slaps him around a little - he respects that type of attention and behavior from "a Coach" - DOH, his Dad gave him no choice and his two other brothers were constantly battling it out with him as they grew up - roughness is a trademark and a man's attitude which gets respect (or fear, depending) from other Men. I got three brothers, I oughta know...

    Combine that attitude which is never gonna come from Churchmouse Sherman, along with the fact that Brett needs to return to FUNDAMENTALS by watching game film... til it causes his eyes to clamp shut hours on end and he even starts dreamin' game film highlights... Murphy being open like that was just plain HUGE - no doubt abuot it anywhere... and Reporters everywhere "are" starting to take notice of the blinders he has gained while out on the field...

    I wonder... Ya think Deanna might say something to him...? Maybe?
    Might be an interesting post to light up his own web site, over at OfficialBrettFavre.com
     
  25. PackerChick

    PackerChick Cheesehead

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    Let me add something. I think the Pack is in need of some new fresh blood. Lets prepare the new qbs for replacing Favre. Some picks that may be seemingly bad might just turn out pretty good.
     

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