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Bigger mistake by Ted Thompson:

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Dec 19, 2011.

?

Which was the bigger mistake?

  1. Not drafting an OLB high to add some pass rush to go with Clay

    6 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. Letting Jenkins go, believing Neal could fill his shoes

    15 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Which was the bigger mistake: Not bringing in an athletic OLB to go opposite Matthews and give us SOME pass rush, since Clay is the only one who gets any ever, or letting Cullen Jenkins go in favor of Mike Neal, believing he was going to A) stay healthy and B) blossom into an effective player.

    Mike Neal had one sack, three hurries and five tackles in 78 snaps as rookie.
    In 93 snaps this year, he has one hurry and no tackles.

    Letting Cullen Jenkins go for that, is that a mistake that might prove fatal this post-season?
     
  2. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I believe it is hindsight..Cant answer it objectively, at least I cant

    but I said in off season, we would miss Jenkins..In fact I am pretty sure I said that out of all the years under Ted that was the 1st time I was pissed he let someone go...
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Defensive issues are a combination of so many things. Should we fault him for the decline of Woodson and Williams too?
     
  4. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Probably letting Jenkins go.. But that is not TT's philosophy. He wants to always have one of the youngest teams in the NFL. He and everyone else thought Mike Neal would be doing better. If Ted didn't make mistakes, I'm positive he wouldn't be a General Manager in the NFL. For every move that we didn't make, we should also look at the positive things like...
    1. Trade up for Matthews.
    2. Drafting Collins from a no name school. Only he would find someone like him.
    3. Drafting Rodgers
    4. Getting Starks really cheap in the draft
    5. Picking up Grant from a practice squad
    6. Getting a corner from a undrafted free agent to a top 10 corner
    7. Finding small school players like Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Greg Jennings, Randall Cobb and Donald Driver.

    I could say lots more but instead of making threads about what Thompson has done wrong or the "what if" scenario whenever something goes wrong or when we lose, we should look forward to having the 1st seed and what might be a road through Lambeau to the Super Bowl.
     
  5. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I remember Mike Vandermause of the Press-Gazette was very surprised by the move too, and he wrote a column about this being a mistake in his opinion.

    The thing is, there are often 2 sides to moves like this, a right, and a wrong. Nobody ius perfect. Not Rodgers, not McCarthy, not Thompson. I wouldn't trade any of those 3 for anyone else.

    Still, I agree with you and with Mike, and said it then, that I thought that was a big mistake. Cullen was a GREAT player at getting to QBs from the DL position..... very rare.

    But we have some fans who act like we're not allowed to 2nd-guess anything. That Ted is always going to be right.
    Ron Wolf made 2 great moves. But beyond the 1996 Super Bowl, he made some bad moves which probably cost us another Super Bowl, or 2.

    I'm hoping this (or these, combo) don't prevent us from another title.
     
  6. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    We get no pass rush for sure and I think letting Jenkins go is a part but not the entire reason. Walden is God awful at LB. Sacks are supposed to come from the LB's in the 3-4. He can't play the run or get pressure. I was hoping for a LB early in last years draft but I can't fault drafting a tackle either. Collins loss was huge and yes the play of Woodson and Williams has declined. Every week we see the middle of the field wide open. I don't know if Capers has a magic bullet but our defense is not of Championship caliber now nor has it been all season.
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Jenkins gets double teamed, that frees up a spot...It all rolls into one..

    Neal was counted on to fill that roll, but it is not Ted's fault he got hurt
     
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The op is trying to figure out what was the worse move non move out of the two options..

    dont think he is questioning Teds philosophy at all
     
  9. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO the poll/first post is flawed twice. First, yes Ted Thompson should have taken that "sure thing" at OLB sitting there at the end of the first round. What was his name again? Oh that’s right, there wasn't one. This poll/thread is in effect asking, 'shouldn't have Thompson reached for a position of need?'. The answer to that is a flat, unequivocal no. Even great GMs like Wolf reached and got burned doing it. An example is the 1999 draft: As a reaction to the Vikings' acquisition of rookie sensation Randy Moss, Wolf used his first three picks in the draft on DBs (a second rounder was used earlier in the supplemental draft for Wahl). That brought first rounder Antwan Edwards and second rounder Fred Vinson to Green Bay. Thank goodness he hit on his third rounder, Mike McKenzie. I don't know who was at the top of their draft board regardless of position, but choosing those players would have made for a much better draft. Even if they played positions that weren't "needs". Also remember Thompson brought in three rookie LBs who stuck. Who is to say a player drafted higher would have been better?

    Regarding Jenkins: No question the Packers miss his pass rush but anyone who believes having Jenkins back in green and gold would fix the D is kidding themselves. So far this season Jenkins has 35 tackles and 5.5 sacks. However, in the last four games he has 0 sacks, 8 tackles and 0 assists. Also 4 of his 5.5 sacks came in the first 5 games this season. Now, stats don't tell the whole story - I would like to see the number of QB pressures he's recorded and if there is a comparable drop off (to sacks) as the season has gone on. And how often is Jenkins being doubled? I rarely watch the Eagles so I don't know. Again, they miss his pass rush but he wouldn't have turned this D around by himself.

    The other reason this is a bad question IMO is this, "letting Cullen Jenkins go in favor of Mike Neal" is overly simplistic. It was not as simple as choosing between the two players. It also involved a calculation of the money saved not extending Jenkins being used to extend other players on the team.
     
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  10. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    This is a collective disappointment. Sure having Cullen and another OLB on the team would help, but the defense is under preforming. The only people that are doing the same as last year is Woodson and Bishop. Everyone else is under peforming. Our D line has been terrible. Linebackers have been adequate . Our secondary can only generate picks. Other than that they consistently give up big plays.
     
  11. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    I know.. I was just pointing it out... There should be an option in the voting for neither was really a mistake. Mike Neal isn't 100% and he said that a couple weeks ago. If he wasn't injured, he would have more experience and a better motor to run on. You also can't argue yet with the OLB position. Yes, we do need another one now but during the draft, we had Zombo and Walden to lean on. Just look at Jenkins numbers this year, he has missed a couple games plus he has 5.5 sacks and 28 tackles all season. Jarius Wynn and CJ Wilson have 32 solo tackles and 3 sacks combined. Zombo and Walden combined have around 50 sacks and 4 sacks. If you think about it, 92 snaps is almost 1 full game for a defense. This kid hasn't even played a full 2 games worth of snaps coming off of his injury.

    In a span of 2 games this season, Jenkins had a stretch of only 1 tackle and 0 pressures. Two games is how much Mike Neal has played this whole season. Lets just wait and see before we start calling something a mistake.
     
  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    What a horrible day. First the packers lose then I'm out Christmas shopping, I find a roll of $100 bills and a gorgeous supermodel lady pulls up in a ferrari and begged me to be her boyfriend. Well the rubber band was so tight I broke my nail getting the cash and the supermodel? She wants to do a three way, but her friend, who is also a model, is only a c cup. And the leather in the ferrari clashes with the dash. Life sucks!
     
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  13. Greenbayphil

    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    This is a lame thread.
    TT has built us a SB team and is currently working with a team which is 13-1 and looking to clinch the top seed.

    Do you see any problems?

    NOPE
     
  14. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    That's not why he let Jenkins go. He let him go because he wasn't going to over-pay a player on the back 9 of his career.
     
  15. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Back 9? lol he's on the 17th right now.
     
  16. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Oh so TT gets a free pass? No way. Before the season I thought we should have a MINIMUM of 5 probowl level tackles on our team. And look where we are. Clifton, Bulaga, Sherrod, and sitton all get hurt and then we are sitting Here like fools. TT clearly doesn't have a.clue. clearly if I was Gm and we got 5 probowl OTs, we would be still undefeated
     
  17. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    AM, you certainly are the king of hyperbole... lol
     
  18. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    You missed the part yesterday where Kyle Orton completed 23-31 passes for 300 yards, and no picks nor sacks?
    Or the part where we got within 5 points with over 2 minutes to go, had 3 timeouts and the 2:00 minute warning, and both Walden & Zombo blew their edges every time and allowed the Chiefs to get not just one, but two first downs to end the game?

    You didn't see that?
    You didn't see Bulaga or Sherrod get hurt?
    This is real life here and those things linger.... it's not Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

    The part of it all that bothers me the most is when those things happen and it leads to the offense sputtering or the defense sucking, a lot of fans ignore the roots of the problems and they blame McCarthy or Capers. The fact is, Capers doesn't have anyone on the DL or OLB spot other than Matthews who are any good at getting to QBs.

    Even when Capers dials up a great blitz, like he did on the game's 3rd offensive play yesterday when the Chiefs had 3rd & 8 from their 22 and Burnett came in free unaccounted for, Shields fell right away leaving his guy wide open for the 1st down.

    And no matter what play McCarthy calls on offense, if the LT or LG let their guy go right around them to Rodgers, it's going to not work. It's not automatically a bad play call by McCarthy. Same with when the receivers drop passes.

    It seems to me too many fans love to blame the coach.
    They can only do so much.
     
  19. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Mike Neal=Justin Harrell.
    Finding a pass rushing DE who can play right away will be among TT's top priority in the draft. He also needs a safety as Peprah is dependable, but not Nick Collins talented. Collins is almost certainly a goner.
     
  20. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Did you see where the Packers are 13-1?
    How the Packers are considered by most pundits to be the deepest, most talented, and best team in the NFL?
    Notice that probably every team in the NFL probably wishes they had our problems to deal with?
    Notice that there is a salary cap and a reality cap?

    Yes this is real life and you can't fill every position with a probowl player. You can't make a player a player by drafting him either. That is, where there any options to get a probowl OLB in the draft? Even with the benefit of hindsight, I don't see anyone we missed that is tearing up the NFL who we could have gotten.

    Jenkins? The guy has 0.5 sacks in the last 9 games? You are missing that kind of production?
     
  21. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    greenphil said there were no problems.
     
  22. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Not ready to compare Neal to Harrell at this point but I'm thoroughly disappointed in him.
    I think the safety problem will be solved when Woodson is moved there next year. I think his days as a corner are about done. Then we should look for a corner. Honestly I think we need a LB worse than a DE.
     
  23. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    At one time, I said Jenkins wasn't much of a loss because he was hurt a lot. In fact, this season he stayed pretty healthy, but he's playing in a completely different system. Babin and Cole seem to be getting the big pressure for the Eagles, but is that because Jenkins requires attention. I'm now willing to say keeping Jenkins would have been smart even if it costed a little bit more money. But we absolutely definitely need help at Linebacker as well. Clay is great, but Diggs and Barnett are way better than Bishop and company, in my opinion. We lost those guys. It's hard for a winning team to keep everyone because losers want to scavenge your players at the end of every season and they are willing to pay a bunch to be scavengers. You can't help it.
     
  24. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Didn't read all the posts so this may have already been said. TT's philosiphy is Draft the best player available when you come up to bat in the draft. It is a draft and develope system. Sometimes things work out the way you want (draft raji, trade up and get mattews). Sometimes they don't, Neil hurts his knee in the preseason. But Mike took us to a championship. I'll follow his way.
     
  25. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    And Croak I was one who said we should have kept Jenkins as you know. But I have come to realize the problem with our defense is not just not having Jenkins alone. I've stated over and over that there are a number of problems and to me things are connected. It isn't just one thing. Collins, poor tackling, middle of the field constantly open, poor secondary coverage, decline of Woodson, no pass rush (here is where Jenkins comes in but Walden I have little confidence in anyway), Williams not playing as well.

    Can Neal step up, can the other problems I've mentioned above be corrected? We've been missing Bishop and didn't have Pickett the last game but I hardly think they are difference makers. I really don't know why our defense plays so poorly. Like I said I hope Capers can dial something up. Right now I'm very worried.
     

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