All Things Defense

[El Guapo]

2025 “Pass Rush” player - losses:

LB Eric Wilson (2024)
2 Sacks
4 QB hits
7 QB pressures

2025 “Pass Rush” + additions:

LB Isaiah Simmons FA
DE Barryn Sorrell 4th Rd
DE Colin Oliver 5th Rd
DT Warren Brinson 6th

DE Brenton Cox Jr. ((I’m adding him honorable mention to be more involved because he really did miss much (10 games) of last season)).

This is a good summary. It's possible that one of the rookies will step up, but DL is usually one of the toughest positions for a rookie to excel unless it's a Top 5 pick like Aidan Hutchinson was the other year.

So in reality we replaced Eric Wilson (a decent backup who excelled at ST) with a bust LB looking for redemption. To me that's a wash in reality with the possibility of upside. I've been watching Brenton Cox for a while and hoping that he would breakout, but at this point he has a lot to prove.

Sure Clark and LVN are coming back from new injuries, but a new season means new injuries for anyone. I'll be the pessimist and say that we really haven't done anything to improve the pass rush. There are factors such as keeping everyone healthy and seeing some combination of Cox or a DL rookie breaking out that would significantly help.

If Quay plays like he wants a contract, Cooper continues his impressive play, and Hopper comes alive....that can make things easier on the pass rush. Of course, a good secondary also makes the pass rush look great and vice versa. Unfortunately those two are our weakest spots (specifically thinking CB).

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm kind of hoping they give him a go on the interior like they said. Just to see how well he can play from there.

Yes. Id just like to See Lukas play healthy for a stretch and allow him to move around a little this year. At 275lb he’s strong as an Ox and certainly good enough to reduce inside some. The one thing that I think we should always strive for is to get our best talent on the field at the same time. IMO that’s reducing Luka’s inside some to pair with either Wyatt or Clark.

My thought in general is it’s hard to predict specific risers and fallers. That said it would be unlikely that Gary, Clark and Lukas all 3 have another similar down year. They were all actually closer to average+ but to expectation not so much. I suspect we see an uptick from 2 of those 3 guys. I think we can get in that 50+ Sacks area as a unit. I don’t care if it’s 8 guys with 6+ each or 1 guy breaking the world record for 52 Sacks etc (being sarcastic). I care more about being a cohesive unit than 1 guy stealing the show (the media fascination is 1 guy needs to have 50% of an 11 man production)

 

[Voyageur]

I'm kind of hoping they give him a go on the interior like they said. Just to see how well he can play from there.

What's most important here is that he can play a hybrid position where he can slip into the line and play with his hand on the ground or he can slide into the linebacker slot. He can show one and do the opposite. It creates some changes that the offense has to do to anticipate it could go either way.

Anything that complicates the opponent's response to your defense is a valuable tool.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Anything that complicates the opponent's response to your defense is a valuable tool.

And that's something Hafley preaches constantly. It's literally one of his mottos, a cornerstone principle of his entire defensive philosophy. It'll be interesting to see what he and the new DL coach scheme up with a (hopefully) healthy Clark and LVN.

By the way... going back to the LVN stats Old School poster earlier, showing the splits between his production the first 10 games (with the cast on his hand) compared to his last 7 games (sans cast), I did a little bit of basic arithmetic.

If you look at LVN's numbers from those last 7 games, and extrapolate them over a full 17 game season, you get:

5 sacks
10 quarterback hits
15 pressures
5 quarterback knockdowns

While that's better than he did last season, it's not that great.

Those are the kind of numbers you expect from a rotational or backup player, and even then, in the lower end of the range. I'd like to see more from a top-15 pick. He's going to have to play better this season.

 

[Voyageur]

And that's something Hafley preaches constantly. It's literally one of his mottos, a cornerstone principle of his entire defensive philosophy. It'll be interesting to see what he and the new DL coach scheme up with a (hopefully) healthy Clark and LVN.

By the way... going back to the LVN stats Old School poster earlier, showing the splits between his production the first 10 games (with the cast on his hand) compared to his last 7 games (sans cast), I did a little bit of basic arithmetic.

If you look at LVN's numbers from those last 7 games, and extrapolate them over a full 17 game season, you get:

5 sacks
10 quarterback hits
15 pressures
5 quarterback knockdowns

While that's better than he did last season, it's not that great.

Those are the kind of numbers you expect from a rotational or backup player, and even then, in the lower end of the range. I'd like to see more from a top-15 pick. He's going to have to play better this season.

I think this year is Van Ness's coming out party. I see his production paralleling what we saw from Gary and that would make this his year to start putting his best game on the line.

 

[gopkrs]

What's most important here is that he can play a hybrid position where he can slip into the line and play with his hand on the ground or he can slide into the linebacker slot. He can show one and do the opposite. It creates some changes that the offense has to do to anticipate it could go either way.

Anything that complicates the opponent's response to your defense is a valuable tool.

I'm never high on d linemen dropping back to cover

 

[Voyageur]

I'm never high on d linemen dropping back to cover

it would not be going into coverage. It would be a position as a run stopper to replace a MLB who was asked to drop into middle coverage. Not as a sideline-to-sideline move. That wouldn't work. It's just a change between 4-3 and 3-4 with a middle run cover guy.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm never high on d linemen dropping back to cover

No BJ Raji? Whaaaaaat??

 

[tynimiller]

Yes. Id just like to See Lukas play healthy for a stretch and allow him to move around a little this year. At 275lb he’s strong as an Ox and certainly good enough to reduce inside some. The one thing that I think we should always strive for is to get our best talent on the field at the same time. IMO that’s reducing Luka’s inside some to pair with either Wyatt or Clark.

My thought in general is it’s hard to predict specific risers and fallers. That said it would be unlikely that Gary, Clark and Lukas all 3 have another similar down year. They were all actually closer to average+ but to expectation not so much. I suspect we see an uptick from 2 of those 3 guys. I think we can get in that 50+ Sacks area as a unit. I don’t care if it’s 8 guys with 6+ each or 1 guy breaking the world record for 52 Sacks etc (being sarcastic). I care more about being a cohesive unit than 1 guy stealing the show (the media fascination is 1 guy needs to have 50% of an 11 man production)

Yup many don't realize just how beat up LVN played...essentially with one hand last year and Clark was injured...just healthy those guys should be better.

 

[OldSchool101]

Yup many don't realize just how beat up LVN played...essentially with one hand last year and Clark was injured...just healthy those guys should be better.

Yes and I don’t often like to speak to injury because there’s a good argument that all teams go through that, which is true. Look at Detroit last year etc.. There’s also a derivative and real argument that each year various players or positions kinda get hit with injury and that’s pretty much every team. Here’s what’s different imo..

 

[OldSchool101]

In our 2024 season it was the players that were missing time to injury were more substantial than maybe your average player or typical season.
Offensive players that missed time or played through notable injuries.

Morgan (shoulder)
Love (knee)
Lloyd (multiple)
Musgrave
Watson
Doubs (concussion)
Reed
Dillon

Clark
Alexander
Van Ness (Thumb)


Now, we don’t get that full array of players back. Yet we should get back several of that list playing at a higher level with some moderate health fortune. I think the ones that could affect 2025 the greatest over last year as far as Defense production are
Clark
Van Ness

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm kind of hoping they give him a go on the interior like they said. Just to see how well he can play from there.

Interesting. He's not getting the job done on the outside, at least not yet. It's worth a try to move him inside, maybe develop some moves that aren't so reliant on hip flexibility.

The guy has all the physical attributes of a sold Edge player, except for bend. Wherever and however they play him, this is a career year. Hopefully he answers the bell.

 

[milani]

Interesting. He's not getting the job done on the outside, at least not yet. It's worth a try to move him inside, maybe develop some moves that aren't so reliant on hip flexibility.

The guy has all the physical attributes of a sold Edge player, except for bend. Wherever and however they play him, this is a career year. Hopefully he answers the bell.

I tend to think he will get mauled inside. But why not.

 

[tynimiller]

I tend to think he will get mauled inside. But why not.

It'd have to be on sub type packages.

 

[OldSchool101]

It'd have to be on sub type packages.

Stunts and such. I have no doubt that Lukas can swing around Wyatt and hit someone not properly set like they are on skates. He has very good speed to power in his DNA

 

[milani]

It'd have to be on sub type packages.

Like 3rd and long?

 

[OldSchool101]

Quiet this time of year. Mostly multiples of fictitious trade rumors trying to generate some activity.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall listening to Gutey and his Staff concerning the CB room. I know we’re typically prone to standing pat. There’s also some optimism for several depth players at the bottom of that CB room. I do wonder if we would make a move for an older Vet like we did with Tramon Williams some years ago.

It’s quite possible Gutey would do that with someone like Gilmore, but only during the season if we lose a CB. An inseason signing like Rasul a few years ago could make sense. That or if we are struggling for any reason he could work a trade deal before deadline. Check the “lay of the land” first if you will?

Thoughts?

 

[Pkrjones]

Either Gute knows there are gems just waiting to be polished up with game experience in the young CB's on the roster OR he's working on signing an aging vet.

Rasul Douglas (31) & Kendall Fuller (30) are still out there available. Stephon Gilmore (34) might have a year or two left in the tank but I'd be leery.

A FA that I'm curious about is Asante Samuel Jr. 25 yrs old, coming off of neck surgery after missing most of '24 due to "stingers". His doctors should be clearing him for duty any time, now. With the SB Window open in GB is he worth taking a flyer on?

 

[OldSchool101]

Either Gute knows there are gems just waiting to be polished up with game experience in the young CB's on the roster OR he's working on signing an aging vet.

Rasul Douglas (31) & Kendall Fuller (30) are still out there available. Stephon Gilmore (34) might have a year or two left in the tank but I'd be leery.

A FA that I'm curious about is Asante Samuel Jr. 25 yrs old, coming off of neck surgery after missing most of '24 due to "stingers". His doctors should be clearing him for duty any time, now. With the SB Window open in GB is he worth taking a flyer on?

On Samuel Jr the only thing I don’t like is we’re back to that shoulder injury thing. Obviously it comes down to $$. I’m not super excited about anything that’s going to set us back financially. Personally I think we just need a solid depth piece at CB. Vet minimum area + incentives to maybe $2-3Mil.

Now if Samuel Jr checked out and would do a shorter 1-2yr prove it type deal in that $6-8mil annual? there’s a threshold that could be amicable to both parties.

 

[milani]

Quiet this time of year. Mostly multiples of fictitious trade rumors trying to generate some activity.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall listening to Gutey and his Staff concerning the CB room. I know we’re typically prone to standing pat. There’s also some optimism for several depth players at the bottom of that CB room. I do wonder if we would make a move for an older Vet like we did with Tramon Williams some years ago.

It’s quite possible Gutey would do that with someone like Gilmore, but only during the season if we lose a CB. An inseason signing like Rasul a few years ago could make sense. That or if we are struggling for any reason he could work a trade deal before deadline. Check the “lay of the land” first if you will?

Thoughts?

I am thinking near the end of preseason.

 

[OldSchool101]

I am thinking near the end of preseason.

Yes. I like that idea because there’s going to be several choices at CB that other teams will be hoping to stash on their PS. CB’s with some quantifiable playing experience. Me thinks we need to play “Poacher” if we watch that competition and see a verifiable upgrade.

I like the move we did with Rasul in 2021 when JA and Kevin King were banged up. Hurt a little when Rasul went to Buffalo and picked off 4 INT in 1/2 season though.

 

[milani]

Yes. I like that idea because there’s going to be several choices at CB that other teams will be hoping to stash on their PS. CB’s with some quantifiable playing experience. Me thinks we need to play “Poacher” if we watch that competition and see a verifiable upgrade.

I like the move we did with Rasul in 2021 when JA and Kevin King were banged up. Hurt a little when Rasul went to Buffalo and picked off 4 INT in 1/2 season though.

I think it will be a numbers game for some teams whether to keep a vet or go with a newer young tyro. Hopefully, we can get some help and experience.