Adrian Peterson and his fumbles

[Hauschild]

The way AP has completely lost touch with his mental state in terms of holding onto the ball, I wouldn't be surprised if he "loses" a significant number of carries in 2010. After all, how productive was he in the latter half of the season? He certainly cost the Vikes in the NFCCG, even if he had a bunch of gimme TD's.

I just don't like reckless RB's that only remember what you've warned them about for about one series, then revert back to bad habits. Furthermore, the Vikings' O-line in terms of run-blocking is abysmal, so it if you're hanging with AP because of his chance to "break one off", you're wasting your time.

If I were Minnesota, I'd try to pull of some type of Herschel Walker trade for All Day, or should I say, Part Time.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

The way AP has completely lost touch with his mental state in terms of holding onto the ball, I wouldn't be surprised if he "loses" a significant number of carries in 2010. After all, how productive was he in the latter half of the season? He certainly cost the Vikes in the NFCCG, even if he had a bunch of gimme TD's.

I just don't like reckless RB's that only remember what you've warned them about for about one series, then revert back to bad habits. Furthermore, the Vikings' O-line in terms of run-blocking is abysmal, so it if you're hanging with AP because of his chance to "break one off", you're wasting your time.

If I were Minnesota, I'd try to pull of some type of Herschel Walker trade for All Day, or should I say, Part Time.

I don't want to start a Brett Favre argument, but his numbers dipped dramatically when the Vikes signed Favre. If the T-Jack is the Vikes QB next season, AP will have an MVP season. I guarantee it.

 

[Hauschild]

I don't want to start a Brett Favre argument, but his numbers dipped dramatically when the Vikes signed Favre. If the T-Jack is the Vikes QB next season, AP will have an MVP season. I guarantee it.

You obviously don't watch much NFL football, do you?!?!?

Part Time is unreliable and unreliable players are not "MVP candidates".

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

You obviously don't watch much NFL football, do you?!?!?

Part Time is unreliable and unreliable players are not "MVP candidates".

No, I don't watch the NFL. I've never seen AP rush for 1700 yards, avg 110 yards per game, and 5.8 yards per carry. I've never seen him have a great season.

 

[PackersRS]

No, I don't watch the NFL. I've never seen AP rush for 1700 yards, avg 110 yards per game, and 5.8 yards per carry. I've never seen him have a great season.

Not to mention break the single game rushing record...

But, hey, if AP is labeled unreliable, then it's not BFs fault...

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Not to mention break the single game rushing record...

But, hey, if AP is labeled unreliable, then it's not BFs fault...

Nothing is Brett Favre's fault. He is not accountable for anything.

 

[longtimefan]

Nothing is Brett Favre's fault. He is not accountable for anything.

nope, including his bad games when the defenses are ranked in top 10...at least that is Haus's theory

Best q/b in history and its okay to have bad games as long as it is vs top defenses

 

[Raptorman]

Peterson has 20 fumbles so far his career. That's just short of one per game. I am not worried about him yet. He still has time to clean it up. And about being unreliable. The following is a list of the top ten backs by yards and how many fumbles they had in their first 3 years of playing. They all pretty much cleaned up their act by year 4 at the latest. When you get the ball as often as good backs do they have a higher probabiltiy of fumbles. For the record the person who fumbled the ball the most was Warren Moon. Number 2 is...drum roll please........Brett Favre.

E. Smith 19
W. Payton 30
B. Sanders 19
C. Martin 12
J. Bettis 13
E. ****erson 37
T. Dorsett 28
L. Tomlinson 13
J. Brown 14 (in 36 games. Adjust to 16 games a year, 18)
M. Faulk 15

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Peterson has 20 fumbles so far his career. That's just short of one per game. I am not worried about him yet. He still has time to clean it up. And about being unreliable. The following is a list of the top ten backs by yards and how many fumbles they had in their first 3 years of playing. They all pretty much cleaned up their act by year 4 at the latest. When you get the ball as often as good backs do they have a higher probabiltiy of fumbles. For the record the person who fumbled the ball the most was Warren Moon. Number 2 is...drum roll please........Brett Favre.

E. Smith 19
W. Payton 30
B. Sanders 19
C. Martin 12
J. Bettis 13
E. ****erson 37
T. Dorsett 28
L. Tomlinson 13
J. Brown 14 (in 36 games. Adjust to 16 games a year, 18)
M. Faulk 15

Adrian Peterson has played in more than 50 games hasn't he? If he's fumbled 20 times....that would be way less than once per game wouldn't it? He had fewer fumbles this last year than he did the year before and scored more touchdowns. His touches were down because the Vikings are a passing team with Favre. He also had 20 more receptions last year than the year before.

Look, I don't like the Vikings at all....in fact, I hate them, but to say that Adrian Peterson isn't reliable or that he isn't capable of being MVP in the near future is ridiculous. I also understand you aren't saying that....I'm referring to Haus.

 

[Raptorman]

Adrian Peterson has played in more than 50 games hasn't he? If he's fumbled 20 times....that would be way less than once per game wouldn't it? He had fewer fumbles this last year than he did the year before and scored more touchdowns. His touches were down because the Vikings are a passing team with Favre. He also had 20 more receptions last year than the year before.

Look, I don't like the Vikings at all....in fact, I hate them, but to say that Adrian Peterson isn't reliable or that he isn't capable of being MVP in the near future is ridiculous. I also understand you aren't saying that....I'm referring to Haus.

Actually its 46 games. I see, I wrote it wrong. It should be "one fumble every two games." He has has essentially the same number of "touches" the last two years. He is at a fumble about every 50 times he has the ball. Which is a little high. Somewhere between 80-100 would be really nice. Anything over 100 touches per fumble becomes excellent and tough for backs. Out of the top five backs they go in order, 80, 50, 83, 138, 89, touches per fumble.

 

[Hauschild]

Peterson has 20 fumbles so far his career. That's just short of one per game. I am not worried about him yet. He still has time to clean it up. And about being unreliable. The following is a list of the top ten backs by yards and how many fumbles they had in their first 3 years of playing. They all pretty much cleaned up their act by year 4 at the latest. When you get the ball as often as good backs do they have a higher probabiltiy of fumbles. For the record the person who fumbled the ball the most was Warren Moon. Number 2 is...drum roll please........Brett Favre.

E. Smith 19
W. Payton 30
B. Sanders 19
C. Martin 12
J. Bettis 13
E. ****erson 37
T. Dorsett 28
L. Tomlinson 13
J. Brown 14 (in 36 games. Adjust to 16 games a year, 18)
M. Faulk 15

The problem with your argument is that your stats do not show a recent trend by Part Time, of fumbling the ball and losing fumbles much more than in years' past.

It's fine to take the breadth of one's career statistics into account, but what I am arguing is NOW. And, right now, Part Time is more of a liability than an asset.

I really dislike stats when they're used misleadingly to prove a point.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

The problem with your argument is that your stats do not show a recent trend by Part Time, of fumbling the ball and losing fumbles much more than in years' past.

It's fine to take the breadth of one's career statistics into account, but what I am arguing is NOW. And, right now, Part Time is more of a liability than an asset.

I really dislike stats when they're used misleadingly to prove a point.

I'm not sure I understand how this stat is misleading. He's comparing AP's first three seasons to the first three seasons of other running backs.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but are lost fumbles an accurate stat? Seems like luck to me. If I fumble the ball 7 times but the other team doesn't recover any of them, isn't that just blind luck? Where as if I fumble the ball 7 times and the other team recovers it 7 times all of a sudden people start talking about turnovers. I think fumbles lost is a stupid stat.

 

[Hauschild]

I'm not sure I understand how this stat is misleading. He's comparing AP's first three seasons to the first three seasons of other running backs.

Maybe I'm an idiot, but are lost fumbles an accurate stat? Seems like luck to me. If I fumble the ball 7 times but the other team doesn't recover any of them, isn't that just blind luck? Where as if I fumble the ball 7 times and the other team recovers it 7 times all of a sudden people start talking about turnovers. I think fumbles lost is a stupid stat.

Fumbles aren't a stupid stat and yes, you are missing exactly what I pointed out. Again, Part Time's been fumbling like crazy - way way way more over the latter half of the season and playoffs - than his initial years. You can either dismiss facts as not being representative of an entire sample, or you can accept the facts and work at a remedy to this severe problem.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Fumbles aren't a stupid stat and yes, you are missing exactly what I pointed out. Again, Part Time's been fumbling like crazy - way way way more over the latter half of the season and playoffs - than his initial years. You can either dismiss facts as not being representative of an entire sample, or you can accept the facts and work at a remedy to this severe problem.

There you go again twisting words. I didn't say "fumbles" are a stupid stat, I said "lost fumbles" were because the player that fumbled has no control over who recovers it.

Also AP fumbled fewer times during the regular season last year than he did in 2008. FACT

Lets see how respond to the facts.

 

[Hauschild]

There you go again twisting words. I didn't say "fumbles" are a stupid stat, I said "lost fumbles" were because the player that fumbled has no control over who recovers it.

Also AP fumbled fewer times during the regular season last year than he did in 2008. FACT

Lets see how respond to the facts.

How many did Part Time lose in 2007, 2008 and 2009, including playoffs? And, how many potenial lost fumbles did he have?

No matter how you spin it, All Day has lost his edge, either mentally, physically, or both. He was caught from behind on a sure TD run this year and he fumbled countless times, his biggest before half time in the NFCCG, which would have all but wrapped up a Vikings win.

As a Vikings' follower, it has gotten to the point where as long as Brett is my QB, I am fine with Chester Taylor carrying the rock. Even though he represents no home-run threat, I no longer need the home run. I need chains to be moved. Use Part Time at the goal line - fumbling there loses 7, but the potential of the other team to move 95+ yards is much less.

I've got 30 TD's in Favre - I don't need a miracle running back that fumbes.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

How many did Part Time lose in 2007, 2008 and 2009, including playoffs? And, how many potenial lost fumbles did he have?

No matter how you spin it, All Day has lost his edge, either mentally, physically, or both. He was caught from behind on a sure TD run this year and he fumbled countless times, his biggest before half time in the NFCCG, which would have all but wrapped up a Vikings win.

As a Vikings' follower, it has gotten to the point where as long as Brett is my QB, I am fine with Chester Taylor carrying the rock. Even though he represents no home-run threat, I no longer need the home run. I need chains to be moved. Use Part Time at the goal line - fumbling there loses 7, but the potential of the other team to move 95+ yards is much less.

I've got 30 TD's in Favre - I don't need a miracle running back that fumbes.

:viksux::viksux::viksux::viksux::viksux:

 

[Raptorman]

The problem with your argument is that your stats do not show a recent trend by Part Time, of fumbling the ball and losing fumbles much more than in years' past.

It's fine to take the breadth of one's career statistics into account, but what I am arguing is NOW. And, right now, Part Time is more of a liability than an asset.

I really dislike stats when they're used misleadingly to prove a point.

Really? Ok lets go there.

2007 4 games, 4 fumbles, 3 lost. Games 3,7,8,9. 3 lost in the first 3 games
2008 6 games, 9 fumbles 4 lost. Games 4,6,10,14,15,16 3 lost in first 2 games 1 in game 15
2009 6 games, 9 fumbles, 6 lost. Games 2,4,9,11,15 and PO. fumbles lost in each game expect the playoffs.

So he had fumbles in weeks 14, 15 and 16 in 2008 but he did worse in 2009 with fumbles in weeks 11 and 15. Granted he lost 2 in weeks 11 and 15 compared to one in weeks 10,14, 15,16 of 2008. But I certainly don't see any big "trend"

So I also went back and looked at each of Peterson's fumbles. 6 of them, 30% are against Detroit. Only one fumble in three years had any direct impact on the outcome of the game. That was the one in the second game against Chicago this year. All 7 fumbles in the 2009 regular season were against division opponents. So out of all his fumbles this year, this is what the teams scored in points. Detroit first game 3 points. Green Bay, 7 points,(were Matthews pulled it out of his hands and ran for a td) Detroit second game 3 points. Chicago, second game 6 points.

And losing fumbles is more of luck than anything else. You never know how the ball is going to bounce or who will be around to jump on it.

So tell me now, how are these misleading? Tell me how is he a liability and back it up with something other then you opinion.

Oh, and here's some more misleading stats. Over the last 3 year years.

Peterson 1 fumbles every 49.9 touches, and 1 lost fumble every 76.8 touches
Taylor 1 fumbles every 52.5 touches and 1 lost fumbles every 78.3 touches.

 

[longtimefan]

Really? Ok lets go there.

2007 4 games, 4 fumbles, 3 lost. Games 3,7,8,9. 3 lost in the first 3 games
2008 6 games, 9 fumbles 4 lost. Games 4,6,10,14,15,16 3 lost in first 2 games 1 in game 15
2009 6 games, 9 fumbles, 6 lost. Games 2,4,9,11,15 and PO. fumbles lost in each game expect the playoffs.

So he had fumbles in weeks 14, 15 and 16 in 2008 but he did worse in 2009 with fumbles in weeks 11 and 15. Granted he lost 2 in weeks 11 and 15 compared to one in weeks 10,14, 15,16 of 2008. But I certainly don't see any big "trend"

So I also went back and looked at each of Peterson's fumbles. 6 of them, 30% are against Detroit. Only one fumble in three years had any direct impact on the outcome of the game. That was the one in the second game against Chicago this year. All 7 fumbles in the 2009 regular season were against division opponents. So out of all his fumbles this year, this is what the teams scored in points. Detroit first game 3 points. Green Bay, 7 points,(were Matthews pulled it out of his hands and ran for a td) Detroit second game 3 points. Chicago, second game 6 points.

And losing fumbles is more of luck than anything else. You never know how the ball is going to bounce or who will be around to jump on it.

So tell me now, how are these misleading? Tell me how is he a liability and back it up with something other then you opinion.

Oh, and here's some more misleading stats. Over the last 3 year years.

Peterson 1 fumbles every 49.9 touches, and 1 lost fumble every 76.8 touches
Taylor 1 fumbles every 52.5 touches and 1 lost fumbles every 78.3 touches.

WELL DONE SIR!!

Now Haus wont debate you and just say you dont like to know the truth and will avoid the topic at all cost

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

WELL DONE SIR!!

Now Haus wont debate you and just say you dont like to know the truth and will avoid the topic at all cost

Or he will just say the same thing he said previously and tell you that must not watch football and call you an idiot.

Good post Raptorman.

 

[Hauschild]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did anybody notice Part Time losing carries down the stretch? Do you think it had more to do with his struggles holding onto the football, or Chilly wanting to "keep him fresh"???

Chilly admitted Part Time's got a problem, so I would surmise it was the former. What is worse, is now defenders know Part Time's Achilles Heel, and they're exploiting it further, to the chagrin of the Vikings offense.

Hold onto these thoughts ya'll have and see what transpires at the beginning of next season.

 

[longtimefan]

you dont disappoint when called out thats for sure

 

[Raptorman]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did anybody notice Part Time losing carries down the stretch? Do you think it had more to do with his struggles holding onto the football, or Chilly wanting to "keep him fresh"???

Chilly admitted Part Time's got a problem, so I would surmise it was the former. What is worse, is now defenders know Part Time's Achilles Heel, and they're exploiting it further, to the chagrin of the Vikings offense.

Hold onto these thoughts ya'll have and see what transpires at the beginning of next season.

Yeah, haven't seen that quote by Chilli. AP's numbers by 4 game at a time.

Games 1-4   84 Rushing attempts, 8 passes, 92 touches.
Games 5-8   79 Rushing attempts, 11 passes, 90 touches.
Games 9-12  80 Rushing attempts, 14 passes, 94 touches.
Games 13-16 71 Rushing attempts, 10 passes, 81 touches.
 
Playoff game, Dallas. 26 Rushing attempts, 1 pass, 27 touches
Playoff game, Saints. 25 Rushing attempts, 2 passes, 27 touches

.

Now it has to be pointed out that the last game of the season he only played very sparingly with only 9 carries. While MN still had 32 rushing attempt during the game. I certainly don't see it as not playing him because he sucked.

But after looking at how many times he touched the ball in the playoffs, yeah, I think Chilli was limiting his play.

Wanna try something else?

 

[PackersRS]

I think Peterson does have fambleitis problem, but he's still better than 98% of the league.

It's a double-edged sword. While defenders go for the arm to cause the fumble, their tackle isn't as firm, and Peterson breaks it most often than not.

It's easy to remember that Peterson had 2 fumbles. It's also easy to forget that he had 122 yards and 3 tds in the NFCC game.

While some other Vikings player cost 3 turnovers, while only providing 1 TD by himself...

 

[longtimefan]

anyone find it funny, that this is a huge deal but yet the last time the Viks had the ball AP wasnt the one that had a turn over and when brought up, its is tossed aside

 

[PackersRS]

anyone find it funny, that this is a huge deal but yet the last time the Viks had the ball AP wasnt the one that had a turn over and when brought up, its is tossed aside

Agendas... Nothing but agendas...

It's tiresome when (almost) all matters a person treats has a deeper intention.

But when one figures it out, it makes everything clear.