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4th Down, SB on the line ...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    And Ravens send the house. Refreshing to see an aggressive defense on 4th down for a change! And you see what happens when you force Kaep to be a pocket QB. Disciplined and aggressive, that was the difference b/w the Ravens success against him and us.
     
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  2. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Ahhh, if only life were that simple. Blitz all day to keep the bad men away...

    I agree that it was a great call defensively, but if you're implying that the only difference between the Ravens defense and Packers defense is the blitzing...you're way off. The Ravens have much better personnel. You can blitz more effectively with better personnel. Let's also not forget that when Green Bay blitzed Kaepernick, he just ran passed it for huge gains.

    Also, Kaepernick only attempted TWO rushes until the 3rd quarter, gaining 7 and 9 yards respectively. Those are good gains so it's not like the Ravens kept him in the pocket. What kept Kaepernick in the pocket was his coaches game plan, and the fact that they were down big early.

    Had Green Bay been more effective at putting up points in the first half, we might have limited his ability to run. However, he also rushed four times in his first three possessions against GB. They established the QB run/option early and never swayed. So Baltimore had the advantage at the end of the game, of virtually having eliminated Kaepernicks legs which made the blitz a much more effective tool.
     
  3. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Ravens almost got burnt on that play
     
  4. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    The Packers are actually pretty good at the goal line stand when it matters. The shorter the field the less the lack of speed at the linebacker position shows. The corners also can't play 10 yds off the ball. Its the other 80 yds of the field and non-pressure situations that are the problem.
     
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  5. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    I'm not implying that's the only difference. What I was trying to say is that it's nice to see a defense play aggressively on 4th down, instead of the patented zone-defense Capers loves to call in such situations. I've seen way too many times where we fall back into a safe zone to get burned on 3rd and 4th down situations. Ravens went after it to win.

    Also, the difference between the Ravens and Falcons versus us was they blitzed and rushed with discipline. Kaep ran all over us b/c we had no gap integrity. He had country miles to run through because we weren't disciplined when we rushed.
     
  6. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    sounds like the Minnesota game where AP ran wild for 200 +. Guy's not maintaining gap integrity seemd to be the theme on defense this year.
     
  7. GeeDogWarrior

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    If this is a complaint on Dom's "3 Man Rush - everyone drop back in coverage" play calls in long yardage/obvious passing situations - like 4th down or whatever ... then yeah, I hate that 3 man crap as well.

    I like Dom - I think he's a good coach, but that sissy defense has only provided highlights that I'd like to forget about... (Favre's 7 seconds to throw on MNF/Eli's Hail Mary/The Fail Mary/Ponder to wide open guy for 26 yards)
    We need to do what the seahawks do - Blitz a bunch of guys - force a quick pass, either an incompletion or a sack... something better than hoping the secondary doesn't pull a 3 stooges act.
     
  8. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I definitely agree
     
  9. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    this this this

    You give an NFL QB and an NFL WR that much time and they are going to get open. I have always been a fan of forcing a quick pass. Panic leads to mistakes.
     
  10. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO the problem with Capers all-out blitzing or blitzing a lot is he didn't have an effective blitzer (I don't count Clay because while he's by far their most effective pass rusher, he's not "blitzing" he's just rushing the passer.) In previous seasons Capers could send his most effective ILB in Bishop on a blitz and know he had a reasonable chance of getting there. He could also send Woodson with the same effect. But the former was absent all season and regarding blitzing, the latter may as well have been. If you can find the statistical breakdown, I'll bet you'll find the Packers got burned a lot blitzing. Beyond the stats how often do you remember the Packers' blitz causing consistent pressure? Blitz a bunch of guys and don't get there and what happens? IMO it comes down to personnel: Good coordinators can cover a weakness or two but they can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and regarding getting pressure vs. good offenses…

    IMO the Packers problems on D have more to do with personnel and attitude than with scheme. Thompson and his staff have to take some responsibility for the former and Capers and his staff have to for the latter. (And McCarthy for the whole thing, of course.) And some fans don't like to hear it, but it's very difficult to know how good a job the coaching staff does regarding developing players because there's no "control group" regarding each individual player.
    - - - - - - -
    Regarding the Super Bowl, it's amazing how big a single play can be. If the Ravens were flagged on that fourth down play, and the 9ers score the winning TD thereafter, how different the perception of the all-out blitz and of the two teams and even of Flacco, who of course was watching it all from the sidelines.
     
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  11. 757Niner

    757Niner Cheesehead

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    I believe the play-calling in that sequence helped the Ravens. Shotgun at the 5 yard line three consecutive plays is not the Niners playing to their strengths. And I'm not talking the pistol, these were standard shotgun sets. They should have had CK under center and our 2 best, well-designed run plays dialed up. And if it comes to 4th down, maybe you play-action for the game. But I have a hard time understanding why Gore doesn't get one crack at it. We haven't been a particularly good red-zone passing team ALL year. All our red-zone plays for TDs in the NFCCG were runs....AND THEY WORKED! I just think Roman and JH out-guessed themselves. And who didn't know the blitz was coming? They tipped they're hat with the 2 point conversion...they should have known that was coming. CK said he had to audible to the fade because the play-call didn't have a route designed to best the blitz. The 3rd down play in which JH called timeout was probably our best shot. It was a designed QB run out of the pistol and it looks like they had it well blocked. What could have been...

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Forderick

    Forderick Cheesehead

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    The ravens were playing the run big time on those plays. So the Niners almost had to pass in those situations. while I still think they should have run the ball, it was a matter of going with what the defence was showing.

    And lets not forget the horrible officiating throughout the game. And I don't care what the NFL or anyone else says that should have been either a hold or PI on smith on the 4th down play.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's a good analysis. I would have liked to see play action roll out out of pro set on 2nd down in that series if they were not going to try to bang it in. But I liked what Harbaugh said: "Woulda, shoulda, coulda is undefeated."

    I've gotta ask...of all the 49ers one could choose to put in one's signature area, why choose Widmer? He strikes me as a weak link; for example, the Ravens went after him with success in the first half.
     
  14. Bensalama21

    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Exactly. I usually would cheer when we would tackle a receiver after making a 80 yard play but were short of the TD... Almost every time our defense would stop them
     
  15. 757Niner

    757Niner Cheesehead

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    EVERYONE on defense had a bad game except for maybe Willis. Missed tackles, missed assignments, undiscplined plays(jumping offsides), blown coverages, etc. Whitner looked no worst than anybody else. I put the first Boldin TD on him, as he should have given Bowman more help, seeing as he had the WR. But that was Bowman's man and he blew the coverage, just like he made the play on Roddy White to get us to the SB in the NFCCG. It is what it is.

    Whitner is one of the main reason this defense has turned around. He was a unsung guy last year I liked the way he played and what he brought to the table. I think he justified this year with a Pro Bowl birth. People see him around the ball so much and assume he's getting beat for TDs, but not realizing how we scheme defensively and what these TDs are a result of. Like ppl see the Pitta TD and say its on him, not realizing two Niner defenders were out of position on that play and virtually were defending air, which left Whitner out to dry. So its not so cut and dry as to say he gave up this play and that play. We play a insane amount of man under coverage or striaght press across the board. When you keep two ILBs on the field in your nickel, even versus 4 WRs, your margin for error is very small. Fangio has to tweak the scheme because he puts a lot of pressure on both Goldson and Whither to help on the boundary guys as well as spying on the coverages of the LBs and giving them help if needed. Its a tall task when teams constantly spread you out or go with these bunch WR looks. So if the pass-rush doesn't get there, you asking ILBs to hold up against very good WRs and uber atheltic TEs in man coverage. All-Pros or not, that's a win for the offense. And especially when our CBs on the outside aren't winning one-on-one battles, it makes for a long day. So now the safties start taking a step or two to the outside to cheat a little to give help to the outside route and leave holes between the hashes. Its just one of those things...live by the sword, die by the sword. When we're on, everybody looks like world-beaters. When one person is off though, everyone just looks a step late in Fangio's scheme.

    So in essence, I think Whitner is a helluva SS. He has great range and instincts and has made more plays in coverage than he has given up, contrary to what many in our own fanbase believe. But no safety is perfect and they all give up plays, even touchdowns here and there. Our defense doesn't have the success its had without Whitner. He's a big part of what we do.
     

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