2023 Draft Clusters

OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
I keep thinking Julius Brents could be a perfect pick for this....but I fear that young man is going to take a first or second. IMO he is a top 50 guy.

Yeah that's why I created that "DB" category in my clusters-- for guys with possible CB/SAF flexibility.

Kelee Ringo
Tyrique Stevenson
Riley Moss
Jartavius Martin
Mekhi Gardner
 
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Mingo is a great example at the WR position where I think PFF is crazy with their rankings and people gotta stop blindly following it....

Blake Freeland - starting LT in a big conference continually facing elite rushers and was solid, measurables are all there and showed out at elite level moments. There isn't anything really that doesn't say 2nd round worst case...yet they have him ranked outside of the top 100 even. Strongly disagree...honestly I'm more a fan of him than Dawand Jones (I know that is a strong opinion comparison but is what it is...I'll take a guy that fits all the indicators of success than one that is such a special outlier but still an outlier). You're talking about tackle prospect that had a 91.00 PFF grade in 2022...for reference that is better than Skoronski, Paris Johnson, Anton Harrison, Broderick Jones, Dawand Jones...Bergeron, Wright, Duncan.....Cody Mauch is likely the highest "rated" Tackle prospect with a better grade.....and only one of all those names I just listed has had a 90+ rated year in the past three and that was actually Broderick Jones also in 2020.

John Ojukwu - again a LT with everything you could want just like Freeland with the only exception being his conference didn't allow him the game to game level of defense he was facing. However, I mean you're talking about a starting LT logging just shy of 1800 snaps in just the last two seasons for Boise State (over 3500 in his college time)....a 6'6' and 34 inch arm frame with mittens almost 11 inches - you type in what you want from a LT prospect this man is it honestly. PFF has him essentially as a possible UDFA....personally speaking this man is closer to a Day 2 prospect for me than that...strongly believe PFF is drunk on his ranking.

McClendon Curtis - I'll just stay in the LT to illustrate my thoughts...another guy they have ranked past 200 at #219 that I personally have a 3rd round grade on just like Ojukwu. I understand this one touch more as small school guys - he's from Chattanooga - are much more difficult to rank and figure out where they fall. However, Curtis could be the most physical specimen outside of Dawand for me. This man checked in at 6056, but had the second longest arms at 35 inches and 84 inch wingspan. I am higher on him than I bet you are Dantes as he doesn't quite hit what many say is that threshold of indication of 8.000 I think it was for Tackles but he didn't measure a bad athlete at 7.66.

Andre Carter - Example of the other way...his 2021 outlier/atypical year inflated vastly too much his stock IMO. He tested absolutely autrociously which further strengthens my thoughts of Day 3 type guy...yet they have him come in at #52. I wouldn't touch him till the 5th or so personally.

Tank Dell - Is another for me at least....this young man is SPECIAL but such an outlier I'm not risking it honestly unless I have a luxury of four or five Day 1 and Day 2 picks. For every Tyreek Hill that exists....there has been ten failures at his size and stature. They have him a #43.

Since PFF started releasing draft rankings, any player they have ranked way above consensus is almost a guaranteed bust.

I consider their guys just as reputable as most of the other media types, but their grading did basically nothing to revolutionize draft analysis.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,190
Reaction score
5,038
He reminds me of A.J. Brown. I know that's high praise, but recall that Brown was drafted at #51.
Ooo I like that comp too...I'd say his floor comp is Lazard type with Brown his ceiling comp...either way he is for sure an NFL caliber WR.
 
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Ooo I like that comp too...I'd say his floor comp is Lazard type with Brown his ceiling comp...either way he is for sure an NFL caliber WR.

Yeah I would see him immediately stepping into Lazard's role and I would bet on him being an upgrade immediately. But he wouldn't be so restricted-- he's more capable of playing on the outside than Lazard.
 
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Yes. That’s exactly what they said about Burks!

That’s true in terms of body type.

Brown was just so much more skilled/refined than Burks was and Mingo is closer to that.
 
Last edited:

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,190
Reaction score
5,038
Dante’s beat me to it, Burks was compared to Brown solely from a physical standpoint but that man couldn’t run himself a route to get open if he had to, now you scheme him the ball he’s dynamite tho.
 
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Using Brugler's Top 50, here's another way to cluster for pick #13/15:

Assumed to be Gone:

-B. Young, QB, UA
-C. Stroud, QB, OSU
-A. Richardson, QB, FLA
-W. Levis, QB, UK
-P. Johnson, OT, OSU
-J. Carter, iDL, UGA
-W. Anderson, ED, UA
-T. Wilson, ED, TTU
-D. Witherspoon, CB, ILL

Do Not Want (for the Packers):

-H. ******, QB, TENN
-M. Mayer, TE, ND
-Q. Johnston, WR, TCU
-J. Addison, WR, USC
-Z. Flowers, WR, BC
-J. Downs, WR, UNC
-T. Scott, WR, CIN
-P. Skoronski, OL, NW
-J. Tippmann, OC, WISC
-C. Kancey, iDL, PITT
-B. Ojulari, ED, LSU
-D. Sanders, LB, ARK
-T. Simpson, LB, CLEM
-J. Porter Jr, CB, PSU
-E. Forbes, CB, MSU
-D. Turner, CB, MICH

Like the Player, not the Position:

-B. Robinson, RB, UT
-J. Gibbs, RB, UA
-C. Mauch, iOL, NDSU
-S. Avila, iOL, TCU
-O. Torrence, iOL, FLA
-C. Gonzalez, CB, OR
-D. Banks, CB, MAR

Would be Equal Parts Nervous/Excited:

-D. Kincaid, TE, UT
-D. Washington, TE, UGA
-J. Hyatt, WR, TENN
-N. Smith, ED, UGA
-B. Branch, DB, UA

Only Via Trade-Down:

-L. Musgrave, TE, ORST
-A. Harrison, OT, OK
-M. Smith, iDL, MICH
-K. White, ED/DL, GTU
-F. Anudike-Uzomah, ED, KSU
-K. Ringo, DB, UGA

Do Want:

-J. Smith-Njigba, WR, OSU
-B. Jones, OL, UGA
-D. Wright, OL, TENN
-B. Bresee, iDL, CLEM
-L. Van Ness, ED/DL, IA
-M. Murphy, ED, CLEM
-W. McDonald, ED, IAST
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,460
Reaction score
5,808
Using Brugler's Top 50, here's another way to cluster for pick #13/15:

Assumed to be Gone:

-B. Young, QB, UA
-C. Stroud, QB, OSU
-A. Richardson, QB, FLA
-W. Levis, QB, UK
-P. Johnson, OT, OSU
-J. Carter, iDL, UGA
-W. Anderson, ED, UA
-T. Wilson, ED, TTU
-D. Witherspoon, CB, ILL

Do Not Want (for the Packers):

-H. ******, QB, TENN
-M. Mayer, TE, ND
-Q. Johnston, WR, TCU
-J. Addison, WR, USC
-Z. Flowers, WR, BC
-J. Downs, WR, UNC
-T. Scott, WR, CIN
-P. Skoronski, OL, NW
-J. Tippmann, OC, WISC
-C. Kancey, iDL, PITT
-B. Ojulari, ED, LSU
-D. Sanders, LB, ARK
-T. Simpson, LB, CLEM
-J. Porter Jr, CB, PSU
-E. Forbes, CB, MSU
-D. Turner, CB, MICH

Like the Player, not the Position:

-B. Robinson, RB, UT
-J. Gibbs, RB, UA
-C. Mauch, iOL, NDSU
-S. Avila, iOL, TCU
-O. Torrence, iOL, FLA
-C. Gonzalez, CB, OR
-D. Banks, CB, MAR

Would be Equal Parts Nervous/Excited:

-D. Kincaid, TE, UT
-D. Washington, TE, UGA
-J. Hyatt, WR, TENN
-N. Smith, ED, UGA
-B. Branch, DB, UA

Only Via Trade-Down:

-L. Musgrave, TE, ORST
-A. Harrison, OT, OK
-M. Smith, iDL, MICH
-K. White, ED/DL, GTU
-F. Anudike-Uzomah, ED, KSU
-K. Ringo, DB, UGA

Do Want:

-J. Smith-Njigba, WR, OSU
-B. Jones, OL, UGA
-D. Wright, OL, TENN
-B. Bresee, iDL, CLEM
-L. Van Ness, ED/DL, IA
-M. Murphy, ED, CLEM
-W. McDonald, ED, IAST
Nicely laid out. It shows a logical way of categorizing for grouping alignments. Im 98% with you here.

The only change I could even offer without too much nitpick would be maybe transferring W. McDonald, Ed into the “Only via trade Down”. He fits a secondary need which is a qualifier at #15. That said I think McDonald needs conservatively add 10-15 pounds to pull a young Bakhtiari and get stronger (hopefully similar results) His competition will be severely elevated and obviously the best of the biggest in the NFL. If Will gets to 250lb+ area he could be a really dynamic starter by his Sophomore or Junior campaign.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Nicely laid out. It shows a logical way of categorizing for grouping alignments. Im 98% with you here.

The only change I could even offer without too much nitpick would be maybe transferring W. McDonald, Ed into the “Only via trade Down”. Otherwise I’m signing the petition!

Yeah I could see that. But other than age, he’s a crazy good prospect.

The frame, the athleticism, the production, the pass rush acumen… it’s all there.

He also played way out of position for the Cyclones and still thrived.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,190
Reaction score
5,038
Using Brugler's Top 50, here's another way to cluster for pick #13/15:

Assumed to be Gone:

-B. Young, QB, UA
-C. Stroud, QB, OSU
-A. Richardson, QB, FLA
-W. Levis, QB, UK
-P. Johnson, OT, OSU
-J. Carter, iDL, UGA
-W. Anderson, ED, UA
-T. Wilson, ED, TTU
-D. Witherspoon, CB, ILL

Do Not Want (for the Packers):

-H. ******, QB, TENN
-M. Mayer, TE, ND
-Q. Johnston, WR, TCU
-J. Addison, WR, USC
-Z. Flowers, WR, BC
-J. Downs, WR, UNC
-T. Scott, WR, CIN
-P. Skoronski, OL, NW
-J. Tippmann, OC, WISC
-C. Kancey, iDL, PITT
-B. Ojulari, ED, LSU
-D. Sanders, LB, ARK
-T. Simpson, LB, CLEM
-J. Porter Jr, CB, PSU
-E. Forbes, CB, MSU
-D. Turner, CB, MICH

Like the Player, not the Position:

-B. Robinson, RB, UT
-J. Gibbs, RB, UA
-C. Mauch, iOL, NDSU
-S. Avila, iOL, TCU
-O. Torrence, iOL, FLA
-C. Gonzalez, CB, OR
-D. Banks, CB, MAR

Would be Equal Parts Nervous/Excited:

-D. Kincaid, TE, UT
-D. Washington, TE, UGA
-J. Hyatt, WR, TENN
-N. Smith, ED, UGA
-B. Branch, DB, UA

Only Via Trade-Down:

-L. Musgrave, TE, ORST
-A. Harrison, OT, OK
-M. Smith, iDL, MICH
-K. White, ED/DL, GTU
-F. Anudike-Uzomah, ED, KSU
-K. Ringo, DB, UGA

Do Want:

-J. Smith-Njigba, WR, OSU
-B. Jones, OL, UGA
-D. Wright, OL, TENN
-B. Bresee, iDL, CLEM
-L. Van Ness, ED/DL, IA
-M. Murphy, ED, CLEM
-W. McDonald, ED, IAST

Our do want lists are identical

Joey Porter I add to the equal parts one

Trade down list I'm good with but not a Ringo fan and would swap him with Deonte Banks and I would add Mayer to it.

Very small differences as usually
 

Schultz

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
2,860
Reaction score
1,631
My way of looking at it is I want one of these 11(12) players at #15.
E- Anderson, Wilson, Van Ness
DL- Carter
OL-Johnson, B. Jones, Skoronski (D. Wright is a virtual tie here for me)
WR- JSN
DB- Gonzalez, Witherspoon, Porter
Best case scenario is they swap #15 for #13, all 4 QBs go before #15 + Bijan.
Worst case- they stay at 15 and only 3 QBs go early.
 
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Our do want lists are identical

Joey Porter I add to the equal parts one

Trade down list I'm good with but not a Ringo fan and would swap him with Deonte Banks and I would add Mayer to it.

Very small differences as usually

I like Porter, but I think everything he does well would be wasted in our defense.

The reason I'm intrigued with Ringo is that I think he could be a really good safety.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,190
Reaction score
5,038
I like Porter, but I think everything he does well would be wasted in our defense.

The reason I'm intrigued with Ringo is that I think he could be a really good safety.

Now a Ringo move to safety would make me see this more for sure - you're right Porter is NOT a safety move candidate which means his addition doesn't necessarily fit our staff - I just love him as a prospect so much.
 
OP
OP
Dantés

Dantés

Gute Loot
Joined
Jan 21, 2017
Messages
12,115
Reaction score
3,036
Now a Ringo move to safety would make me see this more for sure - you're right Porter is NOT a safety move candidate which means his addition doesn't necessarily fit our staff - I just love him as a prospect so much.

I think Porter needs a DC who will let him sit on the line and press and Barry is too soft.
 

tynimiller

Cheesehead
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
14,190
Reaction score
5,038
I think Porter needs a DC who will let him sit on the line and press and Barry is too soft.

Speaking of prospects that are CBs and move to Safety...I want Julius Brents to do this in the worst way.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,460
Reaction score
5,808
Speaking of prospects that are CBs and move to Safety...I want Julius Brents to do this in the worst way.
I liked the idea of Rasul doing that but Matt shot the idea down when asked. Not because he can’t but because they think he’s a great boundary Corner and those don’t grow on trees, which is understandable.

Jammie Robinson is a Safety we’re targeting imo. We’ve already brought him in for a visit and I think he’s in that 75-100 low to high area and Safety is just thin until the 3rd Round, but there’s a bunch of 75-100 Safety options. I love Robinson’s physicality, his 23 reps show up and for a 192lb guy he hits like a 210lb. He’s the exact opposite of Savage as he’s very physical hitter (more like Rasul). He had a pedestrian 40 yard dash (sane as Dix’s 4.59) and his Combine in general was lackluster. Yet his 10 yard (1.51) and 20 yard were exceptional and he’s very instinctive. On film, Jammie plays like Rasul’s little brother, he’s very physical and instinctive and he plays downhill and aggressive. He logged nearly 3000 Defensive snaps so he’s one of the more experienced College Safeties.
 

Members online

Top