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2021 CBs Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by tynimiller, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    Between him and @Dantés I have to speak in the same "absolute English" for us to even have a simple conversation.
     
  2. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think if you look at the all-pro teams from the last 5-10 years you will find that Alabama doesn’t account for as many all-pros as the number of their players drafted high would expect.
     
  3. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I think you both have fair criticism, you did use the term stud - however I think context would have illustrated what you meant
     
  4. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    You really need to explain what you mean by "absolute," because it's totally unclear what you're trying to say.
     
  5. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I have never in my life heard anybody use the word “stud” when referring to a player, as anything less than “really good”.

    What else could it possibly mean? I sure hope we’re not talking about their breeding capability, in which case, Cromartie is the greatest CB of all time.
     
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  6. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I could be wrong but I just think he overstated "solid contributor" Kevin King is a perfect example, I wouldn't call him a stud, but I'd also say he's been a solid value for his pick and on any team he would start almost.
     
  7. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I'm in awe.
     
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  8. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    “Solid contributor” wasn’t said anywhere! You said they were all “solid” and he responded by saying everyone but Milliner was a stud. I don’t know, contextually, how else to take it than what I did?

    And yes, I realize none of this is a big deal. I get that. But words matter! How we use them matters! If you don’t use them properly, then people fail to communicate well (like now).
     
  9. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I don't disagree as you know, I also don't expect F>R to admit he probably shouldn't have said all the rest are "studs". Wrong word use is all it was IMO
     
  10. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I'm not talking play style, I was referring to body type. Campbell is the same height but about 10 pounds lighter.
     
  11. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    From now on, I'll not only say what I say, I'll even say what I didn't say. Just so we're all clear.
     
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  12. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Nah, to be fair you said stud, he was questioning who all the studs were...either you guys disagree on the definition of stud or you merely used a word that probably misrepresented what you meant.

    It ain't worth changing anything moving forward IMO. You both add a lot to the forum.
     
  13. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    Here goes nothing....

    By "stud", I meant a solid pick. I didn't mean Hall of Famer, I didn't mean All-Pro, I didn't mean future DPY. I just meant a good player.

    For instance, I think some would say that the 2020 Packers OL are all "Studs". But yet, only Bakhtiari and Jenkins were named to the Pro Bowl.
     
  14. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I think the bottom line is that you define that word differently than most people. That's ok. The point is that people can be confused about what you mean without just trying to nit pick you.
     
  15. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Few second tier (Day 2) or even third tier (Day 3) guys that have snagged my eye for whatever reasons:

    Robert Rochell - Central Arkansas 5'11' and 195lbs

    From a guy that had no FBS schools looking at him, leading him to Central Arkansas, and even as a uber talented jack of all trades high schooler he caught a red shirt his freshman year. The last two seasons however Rochell has been that roller coaster production machine. At times he looks like a polished refined CB worthy of a pick no later than in the 3rd...then he flashes struggles or holes in his game that make you think 7th round or UDFA. He is a tall 5'11' (was 5'11' and 7/8s technically) and his frame from two years ago to now added about 15lbs, but lost nothing in production or fluidity. He wasn't as productive in the INTs for 2020 limited schedule, but last year had 5 and a ton of deflections. When I watch him I see a Jalen Ramsey and Jaire type mix, not a guy that is a dude that gets a lot of Picks despite being a stick on you type guy, almost like they worry more about position to beat you not depend on hands to snatch a win. Trying to peg him down to when you think he'll be there is TOUGH....he truly is a guy I could see someone truly falling in love with and "reaching" into end of the 3rd on....or we could see him last till the 7th or a priority UDFA.

    Me personally I have a 5th round slot on him. I like his upside - I'm not wanting him to be the first CB I draft necessarily OR hopefully, but I like him and see a solid chance of him to become a starter.

    Lamont Wade - Penn State 5'9' 190lbs (listed as a S)

    This dude has Sullivan replacement or roaming safety replacement written all over him IMO. Do NOT let his demeanor draw any thoughts of being timid, he will attack the ball whether in the air or in the arms of a player. A guy with a nack for causing turnovers, in one game against Ohio State he punched out 3! He is a Packer guy IMO, conservative thoughtful guy/father off the field that has talked about the comittment to proper sleep, eating ettiquette and has cut his body fat well below 6% body fat. Just peep his short video he sent out on his twitter recently: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/penn-state/lamont-wade-nfl-draft-penn-state-20210115.html

    I personally, similar to Rochell, have him circled as a high 5th round grade. I say that, knowing that he could be a needed grab in the 4th...but unlike Rochell I do not think for a second he slips past the 6th. He has a lot of intangibles, and I think the rest can grow or be coached up.

    Caden Sterns - Texas 6'0' (some places say 6'1') 210lbs (listed as a S)

    Listed after Wade, but not because of any reason other than timing of typing. Sterns is a guy I LOVE for the slot and safety depth. While he is yes built like a SS, this dude's best quality his COVERAGE ability. He has comfort and experience in singe high, two high, box, and the nickel role. This man's ceiling reminds me of a player we all wish we had back, Hyde. Watching some of his 19' games compared to 20' his contribution in stopping the running game took the biggest strides.

    End of 3rd/4th round grade from me for him.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  16. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    I too have a 5th Round grade on Rochell

    I thought Wade was listed at 5'10, if he's 5'9 then he's 7th-UDFA.

    I do like Sterns though. I was hoping he was listed in the 6'1-6'2 range so he could put on an extra 5-10 lbs. Gute really screwed the pooch when he passed on Tanner Muse in the 2020 Draft.
     
  17. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Wade's height is mixed on pages, be curious what he measures at his pro-day, my assumption is if it is 5'9' something it is closer to 5'10' than 5'9' purely in the eighths. I wouldn't change my personal thoughts on what I think he will be based on that inch difference.

    Same for Sterns, I found a spot that said he is like 6'0' and 6/8s or something like that. I don't think sterns needs to put much more weight on in all reality, depends on role he is called on to be. I remember you and I both mocking Muse to us and circling him as a 3rd/4th round option...neither of us can say we were right until 2021 probably since he got put on IR.
     
  18. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    That and the prevalence of manbeater routes, stack and bunch sets, motions etc. I recall the old days when we'd have very good corners but Payton's Saints would force us into zone coverages and shred us.
     
  19. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Yeah I've always been leery of Bama products, I think they tend to be hyped too much and often benefited from A) a top notch collegiate S&T and B) benefited from playing on teams that were much better than the opposition. With Bama players dont expect them to get bigger stronger faster or more explosive.
     
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  20. PikeBadger

    PikeBadger Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Agree. Most are near or at their ceiling. Saban doesn’t recruit less than blue chippers.
     
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  21. KyraReppe5

    KyraReppe5 "We're going to relentlessly chase perfection."

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    The more I study the CB prospects in the draft, the more I hope that the Packers have their Week 1 starting CB2 on the roster OR they plan on moving up in the draft. After the top 3 CBs, none of the prospects come even close to an upgrade to Kevin King.
     
  22. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I will disagree, but there is a "it depends" I have to attach to it. It depends if speaking specifically to expecting an upgrade out the gate in week 1, over their rookie year or in their rookie contract.

    I see numerous CBs that I feel can provide a similar play to King out the gate, but for sure will be some growing pains. The issue with King was he was vastly too experienced to be having some of his issues. Another aspect is if we get a prospect that stays healthy and consistent - you could argue that has a significant value as well.

    IF forced to at this very moment my tiers relative to King are as follows (ignores what I think are 100% inside slot CBs):

    Tier 1 Guys that are upgrades to King out the gate:
    Surtain
    Farley
    Horn

    Tier 2 Guys that appear to have the tools and abilities to possibly be an upgrade right out the gate:
    Stokes
    Campbell
    Samuel Jr

    Tier 3 Guys that I feel will be equivalent or close out the gate which most likely become an upgrade by end of their rookie season or 2nd year:
    Newsome
    Adebo

    Tier 4 Guys I really like but would be slight downgrade, but like Tier 3 I suspect will do very well in growth and could become a true #2:
    Keith Taylor
    Melifonwu
    Ambry Thomas
    Rodarius Williams - His surprise jabs are deadly mixed with his fluid hips

    Tier 5 Guys I like that many will arguably say are mid/late round sleepers:
    Bryan Mills
    Olijah Griffin
    Tre Norwood
     
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  23. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    You can typically get a solid CB2 later in the first round. What you wont find is a Jaire Alexander.
     
  24. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    I remember fans being convinced that Courtney Upshaw would a one man wrecking crew in the league, he never became more than a run stuffing reserve who never managed double digit sacks as in he managed 7 for his 6 year career in the NFL. He still went in the second round despite his pedestrian workouts. Likewise take TJ Watt who despite having elite numbers and production lasted until the bottom of the first, had he been a Bama product he probably would have gone in the top 10. Naturally Watt went on to be a 2 time All Pro in back to back years and he's only 26. Same thing with young players like Jaire Alexander and Darnell Savage. I dont think they would have been available when we picked if they came from blue blood programs.
     
  25. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I want to place this in writing, I'm officially of the belief that Bryan Mills is 100% worth a 150 or higher pick. This cat with NFL coaching has a sky as high as nearly any Senior in the 2021 draft.

    Depending what 40 time he puts out, I could easily say he is a top 100 talent. Yes, I said it.

    His length and speed is impressive - but that mirroring ability he showed at Senior Bowl footage I could find and all I could read backed it up. However, perhaps the best thing I've read and seen in one highlight of a WR was even when he had a bad rep this cat was hungry to erase it with the next play - failure doesn't faze him it pushes him. Jaire has that same mentality...and honestly it is something more CBs need. It isn't just the mindset of believing you can beat the man across from you each snap, it is doing that literally oblivious of what may have just happened the play before - watch Jaire sometime, read his body language post-mistakes...if it illustrates anything it is very quick and then it is like it washes off him and done. Mills for being a FCS guy.

    Write it down, Tynimiller is saying Mills will be a corner the league knows as at minimum a solid CB by the end of his 2nd year in the league.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021

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