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2021 CBs Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Draft Talk' started by tynimiller, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    CB discussions!

    More to be added, however here are my favorite top tier (thinking 1/st2nd Round) CBs to replace King with. Now this is in a scenario of discussion where we do not trade up...so realistically by the time 30/31 rolls around I expect Surtain, Farley, Horn and Stokes to all be gone for certain.

    Greg Newsome II Northwestern - This cat has my love and affection in this group, I'll just be upfront with my biasness - and I know I'll catch flack for ranking him higher than some would. He's a 6'1' - 190lb with excellent length along with that height. He relishes the challenge and chance to go up against the opponents #1 weapon and shut him down. His coaches regard him as being the "zero maintenance" type guy that ignites when on the field and is task oriented in every aspect. I don't expect him to showcase a top flight CB 40 time, he won't be slow, BUT watch his tape, watch his instincts - watch his quickness. Top end speed after a 5 or 10 yards can be negated if you beat your opponent in the first two yards...I predict he will show very well in the cone drill (if he does it). I loved Jaylon Johnson who ran a 4.5 and 7.01 cone last year also - picked as PFF's second best rookie CB...I like Greg more. Walks in Day 1 as the second best CB in the room.

    Paulson Adebo Stanford - While this isn't a ranked thing, I know I'll catch flack but I like Adebo's projection more than Asante Samuel Jr. (next) - not because I think he is a better CB at the moment, but I personally sense what he is set to become could be much higher. He's tall 6'1' and 192lbs with exceptional arm length it appears (purely based of eye, no measurement I could find). Like Newsome very heady defensive back that at times will make plays purely on his IQ and not his skillset...but that doesn't mean he is lacking at all when it comes to skills. I'd argue his hips are touch looser and quicker than Newsome, which is why in off ball scenarios one could argue his agility shines better...but don't get me wrong, both he and Newsome are athletes capable of play press man or zone and shine in any system (Pettine or not). Like Newsome, I believe he walks into the opposite outside position of Jaire without question.

    Asante Samuel Jr FSU - Samuel is arguably the one closest to what I perceive as his ceiling out of this entire list of mine out the gate. Dude can straight ball, has zero fear and has a nasty edge to him that I kinda like - so long as it doesn't lead to boneheaded outcomes. His frame says he is an inside CB...but his play says don't be shocked if he stars outside at the next level. VERY explosive hips and ability to mirror receivers is his best ability in my opinion. While he will lose some 50-50 balls, he will rarely be burned and should be on the receiver at point of a catch if one is allowed with his mirror ability. Last year, a guy like him shoved inside of King and Jaire I'd have LOVED....knowing full well we have to have a surefire outside CB to replace King most likely is the ONLY hesitation on Samuel for me...where exactly will his home be. I'll be ecstatic if we sign him, but anxious to see how he plays out.

    Tyson Campbell Georgia - 6'2' and 185lbs this cat is the body profile spit out if the NFL had a cornerback machine to produce prospects. He reminds me of that WR that just couldn't learn to watch the ball in or track it well. His feet are swift, he is nearly always in the exact position you want a CB to be in when the ball is released but I swear he leaves INTs on the board with his ball judging skills. I don't care though in the end, just don't let the WR make the catches and we're good. Where as Adebo and Newsome will at times make plays due to their Football IQ and instincts, Campbell always strikes me as a guy that relies on his raw skills (which are ample) to make plays rather than his IQ or anticipation. Still WELL worth a pick depending on how this position has shaped out leading to the pick...I wouldn't take him in the 1st, but also don't expect him to make it to the end of the 2nd either.


    Guys I love but not for us:

    Shaun Wade Ohio State - Only way I'm targeting Wade is if we resign King and let Sullivan go without a contract offer/signing. Wade to me will excel in big nickel coverage options and safety otherwise. I just don't see his fit on our team as I see the 2021 roster filling out DESPITE me really liking him.


    Next tier type guys I'm intrigued by:

    Kary Vincent Jr LSU - Now most folks show Vincent in that 3rd at the earliest category...whether it be because of his size (5'10' - 189lbs) or a few bad showings against VERY high talent (SEC play baby)....or just LSU having an abysmal year not helping it - I actually like what I see out of Vincent. HOWEVER, this would be a reach to find an outside option...as he seems to fit that rover Raven Green/Sullivan nickle slot corner type guy and not outside as naturally as one would hope. That said his hips are lightning fast, his willingness to attack the ball in the air and confidence in himself lead me to think there is a chance he may shock people with how well he would do outside.

    Rodarius Williams Oklahoma State - I like his versatility. Ample tape of him playing one hand jamming sequences, but is very comfortable in off man coverage situations predominately. He is a little reluctant to attack throws under him, and his hands aren't anything special at all. Just an athletic specimen that projects to be a guy that wouldn't shock folks to become a stud, or constantly be that guy everyone keeps seeing glimpses of and hoping to explode and never does (think Josh Jackson presently).

    Keith Taylor Washington - I've predicted him in a few of my mocks to us...in comes a Washington husky as out goes one (King). But this cat is a beast of a man at 6'3 and 195lbs....shockingly still quick and athletic in such a frame. He's played inside, outside...used in blitz packages often, VERY willing tackler and is just versatile in what he offers. That extreme versatility though comes at a cost...his ceiling may not be very high. Keep an eye on how he tests, he is a guy I could see be a serious riser depending how his measurables shake out to be.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2021
  2. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    I don't really try to watch corners leading up to the draft. It's hard to get a great look on broadcast tape, I don't feel really strong with the position, and I don't have time to watch a lot anyways, so it makes sense to just scratch secondary off the list.

    That said, it's interesting to me that the Packers ran a lot of zone this year. Pettine was traditionally more of a man coach, but that's not the recent trend.

    I think zone is going to become more and more of a necessity with all of the mobile QB's entering the league. If you run man against a guy who can run, he will shred you with his legs.

    In today's NFL, you really need guys who are capable in a variety of coverages. The days of teams that run man all the time, or just cover 2, or just cover 3 are mostly gone.

    Guys who only do one type of coverage well probably aren't a good fit almost anywhere.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    It is a shocking trend which seems to be increasing more and more for sure, especially with Pettine.
     
  4. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    No Jaycee Horn?!
     
  5. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Go back and read carefully brother.
     
  6. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Let’s all just pretend this never happened. Deal?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  7. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    FWIW I believe Horn and Farley both out perform Surtain in the NFL.

    My current top tier forced to be ranked (post the Kendrick announcement he would return to Clemson another year):

    CB1 - Farley
    CB2 - Horn
    CB3 - Surtain
    CB4 - Stokes
    CB5 - Newsome
    CB6 - Samuel/Adebo
    CB8 - Tyson Campbell
    CB9 - Marco Wilson
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  8. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I truly, truly, don’t know much. Haven’t really followed any prospects this year. I’ll go with whatever Eric Crocker says on DB’s. I recognize a couple names from college recruiting though!

    I like Asante Samuel. He’s polished. Professional. CB version of Winfield Jr is the easy “comp” for me. I don’t like Marco Wilson. Tyson Campbell is an elite athlete. I’m not sure his instincts are great, but I’d take a chance in him. Players in his mold have done well lately (Carlton Davis, Jamel Dean).
     
  9. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    With the 32nd pick I hope the Packers have a shot at either Samuel or Campbell. They're very different body types so much of the decision will come down to what the Packers are looking for; Samuel is built more in the Alexander mold while Campbell is more Kevin King. I don't know too much about the rest of the class to project any later picks but I think the 1st round pick (barring free agency) should come down to either CB or Dline (Basham or Phillips). Though that means the Packers will probably draft a WR this year.
     
  10. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    At the moment if the draft were tomorrow I'd place HARD money that one of those for sure would be there, possibly both. Kendrick going back instead of declaring now though pushes another up into the first most likely.
     
  11. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    I'll take that action. Equally FWIW, Farley is just a hair behind Surtain in talent if you ask me. Horn I think is definitely behind Samuel.
     
  12. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Ooo I like this stance, not that I agree, just not that many would say this.

    I will admit I believe Horn is more team dependent and situation. Samuel I feel as I've said is gonna be a solid high floor type guy anywhere.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    And I'll agree with you on the fact that Horn has to go to the right team and situation. Let's be fair, South Carolina was definitely not a defensive juggernaut, despite having a renowned HC known for good defense. To a lesser degree, I think Bill Muschamp made Horn; and he'll need a similar DC in the NFL to make him more than just good/decent/average.
     
  14. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Horn seeing success where he did means more to mean the Surtain's success where he did in that same line of thought. I hate trying to figure out Bama DBs because they're literally surrounded by NFL caliber guys in a year or two...they're almost always solid no matter what...but amazing or special enough to be a 1st or high 2nd rounder I struggle with properly gauging that.
     
  15. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    For that I'll go with history. Nick Saban at his very core is a DB Coach, and he loves single man coverage. There's a reason why he hires the best offensive minds to run the offense so he can worry about the D. In recent memory he's produced only one CB in the 1st Round who was a bust and that was Dee Miliner. Other than that, studs. I get it, they have the pass rush to where they have it better than most, but Saban builds his teams that way, which is why LBs are the only gambles on his teams.
     
  16. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    HaHa I'd say grossly underachieved as well and I was including Safeties in my DB comment.

    I'm not saying any of them have been bad, well Miliner, but I think often times many get drafted and so many say that's the next "Revis" or "Ramsey" only to be a solid but not legendary level guy and cost them a high high draft pick.
     
  17. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    I don’t think Campbell and King are similar, tbh. I don’t see that at all.
    Marlon Humphrey is a stud CB. Who else from Bama is?
     
  18. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Scout the player, not the school.
     
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  19. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    That said it says something when someone stands out despite his team truly sucking LOL
     
  20. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    HaHa underperformed based on his Draft position at 21st Overall. HOWEVER, HaHa was the best FS in the 2014 Draft Class, although in many Drafts he'd probably be just a 3rd or 4th Round pick. The only worthwhile FS to also come out of the 2014 Draft Class was Tre Boston, who ended up the 128th Overall Selection. So personally I would put an asterisk next to HaHa because compared to the rest of the league, the Packers could have done ALOT worse.

    Minkah Fitzpatrick (Although to be fair, he played every position in the secondary)
    Trevon Diggs
    Dre Kirkpatrick
    Kareem Jackson (Now a Strong Safety but was the #2 CB selected in the Draft)
    Eddie Jackson (Now a Free Safety but played CB at Bama)



    That sounds cute in a vaccuum, but you'd be lying to yourself if you don't think NFL Talent Evaluators don't take a long look at certain positions depending on where they come from.
     
  21. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Humphry is the only stud NFL CB in that group.

    Diggs has struggled. Kirkpatrick is okay, but nothing better. Minkah is a stud, but he’s not a true CB. Nickle/slot and safety. Eddie Jackson, as you mentioned, is a safety. Not sure why you would mention him at all.
     
  22. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    A player playing well against Alabama is going to matter more than playing well against North Dakota.

    But we’ve seen NFL teams take players high in the draft from small schools. They’re not going to take a player just because they started at Bama. They’re going to scout the traits. They’re not going to say, “Oh, well Jeff Tedford has never had a good NFL QB, so they’re all going to stink.” That’s what the media likes to talk about, but real scouts don’t.
     
  23. Favre>Rodgers259

    Favre>Rodgers259 Cheesehead

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    Diggs had his low moments but he was respectable. Minkah can still play any position in the secondary, although his greatest value has been as a versatile safety. Again, Eddie played CB for Bama but moved to FS with the Bears, not because he CAN'T play CB, but because that's where they needed him most on the defense.



    Here we go again. I never said that EVERY player from Bama was good. Tony Brown and Saivion Smith were obviously excluded by me in that short list. However, when it comes to "NFL Factories" like Bama, OSU, Clemson, LSU, ND, etc NFL Scouts are going to look at these players extensively because sometimes they get overshadowed by their fellow upperclassmen.

    When it comes to scouting smaller schools, like say a Matt Judon out of Grand Valley State in 2016, players with NFL potential are undoubtedly starting and will jump out on tape. While I'm sure the scouts do their due diligence, I'm certain they spend more time on prospects from more prestigious schools than trying to scrape D2-D3 schools for a future Pro Bowler, granted they have regional scouts for that too.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  24. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    Eddie Jackson played safety his last two years at Bama. He has never played CB in the NFL, so thinking he would be a stud there is pretty outlandish.

    Look, this is really simple. There’s one stud CB from Alabama in the NFL, and his name is Marlon Humphrey. The rest of them just are not stud CB’s. Facts.
     
  25. tynimiller

    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I think you're clinging to the use of the word "stud" more than he meant.
     

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