2021 CBA

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HardRightEdge

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Actually teams had to spend 89% of the total cap from 2013-17 and 2018-21 in the current CBA. Therefore no franchise was allowed to make a profit by going cheap on players.
Cap rollover, i.e., cumulative cap not spent since the 2011 CBA, goes to the bottom line. For example, Cleveland has $32 million in cap rollover, additional profit since 2011 relative to spending up to the cap. I don't know if that's the highest but it is a meaningful amount for a business that is marginally profitable to start. If they go all in, spending up to their cap ceiling before the 2021 CBA kicks in would wipe out that cumulative profit. I doubt that happens.

If a team had consistently stayed at the 89% level, which none did, unused cap would have ranged from about $13 mil in 2013 up to what looks like about $22 mil for 2020. Cumulatively, that would be a meaningful amount for a marginally profitable business. None did that, otherwise one of them would be sitting on something close to $100 mil in cap carryover.

If the point of owning a marginally profitable franchsie is the cache or vicarious participation or bragging rights or a high public profile, underspending to the 89% level at the cost of the win-loss column starts to defeat the purpose. And the win-loss column has a lot to do with butts in seats in a lot of places. Still, the years Cleveland or Oakland carried over $50 mil, give or take, was likely the margin between being in the red or the green for that year.
 
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HardRightEdge

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So the estimated total nfl revenue was about 4 billion in 2001 and by 2019 it had reportedly grown to over 16 billion. Under the current cba the players recieve 48 % of total revenue after owner expenses are duducted.
That could not possibly be right. The Packers highest opertating profit for any one year was about $75 mil which would imply that the most they would have ever paid out in a season would have been $36 mil. There isn't any reason to believe the Packers are not around the middle of league in revenues and expenses.

Now, I mispoke earlier in saying the players get 48% of gross revenue. Some expenses must be deducted from the gross but nowhere close to all. The cap last season was $188.2 mil x 32 teams = up to $6.0 billion to the players in 2019, about $2 billion under the 48% of the purported gross revenue of $16 billion. The NFLPA shows league cap carryover as $339 mil, which is the cumulative underspend over 9 years or about $38 mil per year legue-wide over that period.

The 48% does not include league costs for all this:

https://www.playsmartplaysafe.com/resource/nfl-benefits/

As an aside, it pays beyond playing days for a player to get to vested status.

Nor does the 48% include, for example, the $620 mil that went into the Legacy Fund for medical expense for players prior to 1993 and whatever further spending on such matters comes to pass.

I'm very confident the $6 billion per year cap, after whatever adjustsments one cares to make, exceeded aggregate net profit to the owners in 2019. Or pick another year under the current CBA.

One thing that underpins the $2 billion purported value of marginal franchises is the ability to move them somewhere else, Toronto being the target of one group of failed bidders for the Bills. The local buyer who provided assurance he would keep the team in town surely reckoned one day there would be a dome built in Buffalo, and those discussions are heating up now. Buffalo may look like a small market, but the Toronto megalopolis starts right over the Niagara River with Toronto downtown around 100 miles up the road. It is estimated that about 20% of Bills game attendees come from Canada. Build that domed pleasure palace and more Toronto money should be coming their way.

So long as there is one sizeable available market, be it Toronto (if the Buffalo dome does not come to pass) or London or San Antonio/Austin (if Jerry and the Houston folks would let in the compeition), and that local government can be speculated to pony up some dough for a pleasure palace, and the marketing says there is sufficient money in town to fill the seats and skyboxes, then the valuation might be realized.

You need look no further than the Raiders, a terrible business to have been running the last decade, but things are looking bright now in the Las Vegas pleasure palace. Or the LA franchises with their new stadium, though whether the sorry history of NFL attendance in that city can be reversed will be known only over time.

As these businesses stand now, a good percentage of them are not a good place to invest your money if the object is an annual profit return on investment. The payday only comes from a willing buyer who wants his name in the paper or thinks he can move it someplace where he can make it pay. Jerry Jones is likely very profitable, providing the debt service on his $1 billion loan is not taking too big of a bite. He's probably just fine ;) given he has the largest local revenue of any team. Dallas is not everywhere else, far from it.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Good stuff HRE. As a small business owner myself, I have had friends/customers approach me and say "man, I just did the math, you must be swimming in money". The problem is, their "math" is so damn fuzzy and doesn't include most of the "real math" that goes into determining what ends up in my wallet. I just laugh and say "I should hire you as my accountant, I could have retired 5 years ago."
 
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HardRightEdge

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Good stuff HRE. As a small business owner myself, I have had friends/customers approach me and say "man, I just did the math, you must be swimming in money". The problem is, their "math" is so damn fuzzy and doesn't include most of the "real math" that goes into determining what ends up in my wallet. I just laugh and say "I should hire you as my accountant, I could have retired 5 years ago."
That's not surprising. People can look at what appears to be a busy business with what they perceive to be strong pricing but without knowing expenses you have not way to assess profitability. If it were not for the Packers public reports we would not have any insight into profitability. But we do have those reports and conveniently the Packers are a middle-of-league franchise which provides a picture of what the league expense averages looks like.

You do realize you've opened a door here, right? The next thing those friends/customers might say is your profits would be better if you spent less time on this web site. :eek: I have the excuse of being retired and am presently on the way to a Florida gold course.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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You do realize you've opened a door here, right? The next thing those friends/customers might say is your profits would be better if you spent less time on this web site. :eek: I have the excuse of being retired and am presently on the way to a Florida gold course.

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: Maybe this website IS part of my business ;) Smile for the camera! :D

I am very fortunate to have a home office, one in which I can balance and juggle my day to include both work and pleasure. So this Forum has been a great place to break up a monotonous day of work for sure.
 

GleefulGary

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:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao: Maybe this website IS part of my business ;) Smile for the camera! :D

I am very fortunate to have a home office, one in which I can balance and juggle my day to include both work and pleasure. So this Forum has been a great place to break up a monotonous day of work for sure.

Meanwhile I just get bored in the tractor...
 
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HardRightEdge

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Here's a detailed summary of the key changes courtesy of Graziano, surely more digestible than the CBA document:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id...osal-players-voting-deal-plus-biggest-changes

There are lots of new and interesting things coming our way, definitely worth reading all the way through.

It does help explain why last year's $6.0 billion aggregate league cap did not come up to 47% of $16 billion in revenue. It was clear that some expenses, but certainly not the majority, are excluded from the 47% application. Evidently, stadium construction and renovation expenses are excluded, something along the lines of gross revenue minus capital expenses. The bulk of expenses are operating expense. This will continue with a caveat noted in the piece.

The discussion about holding guaranteed money in escrow, something I was not aware of or just forgot, is interesting. The changes may lead to more guaranteed money in contracts...or not.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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try reading the Iliad if you haven't already, that was a tough read

:sick::sick::sick: No thanks!

That sounds like a book I had to read in a Literature class in College by John Milton..."Paradise Lost". The Story of Satan and Adam and Even written as a Poem in Blank Verse. My TA for the class looked like Satan himself, I think intentionally. He toted around an original copy of the book and had put a little check mark on a blank page every time he read it. I think it was over 1000 times. They was my first lesson in buying those "Cliff Notes" and finding out, they did not prepare you at all for an exam, at least not his.
 

swhitset

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:sick::sick::sick: No thanks!

That sounds like a book I had to read in a Literature class in College by John Milton..."Paradise Lost". The Story of Satan and Adam and Even written as a Poem in Blank Verse. My TA for the class looked like Satan himself, I think intentionally. He toted around an original copy of the book and had put a little check mark on a blank page every time he read it. I think it was over 1000 times. They was my first lesson in buying those "Cliff Notes" and finding out, they did not prepare you at all for an exam, at least not his.
For what it’s worth, while long, The Iliad is a much easier read than Paradise lost. lol
 

rmontro

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I think I read The Iliad for fun when I was a kid (it wasn't a class requirement). A friend of mine liked Paradise Lost, but I didn't find it entertaining.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Tom Pelissero
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NFL players voted YES on the new collective bargaining agreement, per source.

The newly ratified CBA runs through 2030 and goes into effect immediately. Short term, that means one tag (franchise/transition) per team this year, plus higher minimum salaries, etc. Also, no “Final League Year” rules, which means teams have more flexibility to create cap space.
 

PackAttack12

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Just not a fan of a 17 game season.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Around 500 players didn’t even vote on the new CBA!

If what I am reading is true, teams may be able to spend more in the upcoming Free Agency than originally thought.
 

GreenNGold_81

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17 games is interesting, more teams in the playoffs are interesting as well. I am excited to see how this pans out. I wonder if they made any ratifications based off of Rodgers feedback.
 

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