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What has happened to this franchise

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by packedhouse01, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. P@ck66
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    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    If only Sherman would have gotten Favre some talented VETERAN receivers in those 6 years...it would have been a different story....!

    (and it would have been because of Favre...not the other way around...But I'm with you Dakota...I can't sit by and listen to people say MS was a good coach because of his "record"...)
  2. DePack
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    How about the difference between 12-4 and 4-12? BTW...I didn't call you and idiot.
  3. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    This is just pure silly. MS is gone, why don't we blame it all on Forrest Gregg or something.

    DePack is right, Shermans record speaks for itself. Every coach ever in this league is judged by his record. There are tons of factors in Shula's record, Belichek's record and so on. Debating whether a coach was good/bad because of outside factors are irrelevant. I did not love Sherman, but I did think he was a above average coach.

    His record is all you got at the end of the day, debate it if you want. It's just like a team who wins an ugly game. A W is a W no matter how you slice it, and MS had mor W's than he did L's.
  4. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Depack you wrote this:

    Everyone has their opinions but won/loss records are based on facts. For the idiot that is basing our success on the fact that the bears, lions and queens sucked, get real. I believe we didn't even win our division one of those 12-4 years.


    I am the one that brought up the Vikings, Lions, and Bears, then after reading that I made the gigantic leap of you calling me an idiot.

    Some of you think Sherman was a good coach. I don't think he was. I respect your opinions, I just don't agree. But I will never personally attack any of you!
  5. warhawk
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    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Marv Levy said it....and didn't hire him either.

    If you want facts then fine. We went from a SB contender, to perennial playoff team, to a playoff, one and out team, to a no playoff team, to el stinko.
    I won't even get into the FACTS about how we went from being impossible to beat at home to a very sub-average home record in a matter of three years.
    I'll let all you guys that knows so much about football explain that one.
  6. HatestheEagles084
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    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    I'd argee with you but every time I type something its just me repeating myself bashing Sherman when he was fired.

    Trust me when we play the eagles again, and have to hear about 4th and 26 again, I will re-open the Sherman bash parade, that game was still the worst afternoon of my life
  7. DePack
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    DePack Cheesehead

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    Please tell me that you didn't just say that we were a Super Bowl contender under Ray Rhodes! Otherwise, I understand where you come from and will just skip over your future posts!
  8. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Pyledriver wrote:

    His record is all you got at the end of the day, debate it if you want. It's just like a team who wins an ugly game. A W is a W no matter how you slice it, and MS had mor W's than he did L's.


    How about we talk about Sherman's playoff record then since this is all we've got. Is it 1-4 or 1-5 including home losses to Atlanta and the Vikings. And in that lone win, Al Harris had to save him on a great individual play. Hardly the mark of a "good coach".
  9. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    agreed
  10. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    If you are going to say stuff please make sure its accurate. Shermans playoff record is 2-4. You can say anything you want but at least we got there. If he was as GOD AWFUL as you make him out to be we would have never even make it.

    Honestly it does not matter what you think, He has his overall record and accomplishments, which you can never change. Lets review some quick facts


    Three straight (NFC North) division titles for only the fourth time in team history, joining Lombardi's three-time winners of 1960-62 and 1965-67, along with the 1995-97 division champions of Mike Holmgren

    Four consecutive playoff appearances.

    Five straight winning seasons (9-7 in 2000, 12-4 in 2001 and '02, 10-6 in 2003 and '04)

    Reaching 50 career victories, including playoffs, second fastest among the Packers' 13 head coaches


    A 20-4 regular-season record Dec. 1 or later - best in the NFL the past five seasons - including a perfect 4-0 in both 2000 and 2003 (the Packers have a plus-28 turnover ratio in those 24 games



    Is he great, no, but he did a decent job overall.
  11. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Matt Schaub has done nothing since entering the NFL. What 5 Td's and 4 Int's for his career. 0-2 as a starter. C'Mon you may be in love with the guy but he's done nothing.

    Drafting Sander was bone-headed, no doubt, but it's not the first time a team drafted a bust in the 3rd round.
  12. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Anybody wanna field this one? It's too easy for me.

    There is a reason other teams love this guy, and why Falcons want a kings ransom to let him go(but thats just me validating, right?) and that reason is, he is good. You can look at the numbers\stats all you want, but if you knew anything about football(i wont say anything, its our seret) you'd know he is a valuable little player who could turn out to be a good starter. Worst case scenario for him, is hes the best backup in the league for years. And when Vick(mr. ouchy) is your starter, a good backup is important.
  13. porky88
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    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Schaub is one of the best prospects in the NFL right now. he has great size. Very mobile. Great arm. He's been solid when he's played. Atlanta is asking for a 1st round pick for him. He definately the most sought after player through trade in the NFL right now and Atlanta is holding strong with him.
  14. P@ck66
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    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    You should have added...

    ...."and he never would have done anything NEAR this if it wasn't for Brett Favre being the starting QB for the GB Packers.."...
  15. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Sorry 66, I thought that was a given!

    Tromadz, thanks for sticking up for me! Today, I have been literally called and idiot for pointing out we played in a weak division during the NFC North championship run, and chastised for bringing up the name Matt Schaub. If I have to explain who Ron Mexico is, I am going to bed early.

    Pyledriver - I'm sorry I missed the second playoff win! I guess i dwell on the 4 embarrassing losses too much.

    The Sherman years were not God Awful, but they were far from glorious! I respect Sherman for two things: Standing up to Warren Sack after the Clifton cheap shot and then adjusting the team the following year to run the ball down their throats, on their field, and knocking them out of the playoffs. That was simply beautiful.

    Sherman is an intelligent, thoughtful man that gave us everything he had to give! I am sure many players enjoyed playing for him, but I am not sorry he is gone and I look forward to the future. Unfortunatley, Favre is in the twilight of his career and may never see the big game again. That is truly a travesty.
  16. DePack
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    DePack Cheesehead

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    "Tromadz, thanks for sticking up for me! Today, I have been literally called and idiot for pointing out we played in a weak division.."






    For chrissakes it's "an idiot" "AN IDIOT" not "AND IDIOT". This is like the third time you've typed this :!:
  17. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    LOL, Depack! This is lame, saying MS only has a good record because of Brett. Maybe so, but you can say Shula had Marino and so on. Twist it around like you want but in the record book Sherman will look like an above average coach.
  18. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Sorry for the typo Depack. You think you would have caught on by now since it was the third time i typed it! PC doesn't happen in your world huh, buddy! I can take hazing but not from people I don't know. Go back and reread your sheeeit!

    And pyledriver, Marino couldn't have won with what he was surrounded by. On the other hand, Favre was given plenty to win with except the head coach!

    Enjoy the rest of your evening gentleman.
  19. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Can you please describe who the "plenty" was. I mean are we talking about Bill Schroeder?
  20. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    I'm talking about a good to great o-line, with a solid running game that Favre had. Marino had the Marks brothers and no running game. Had Marino been given Favre's offense, your comparison of Shula and Sherman would hold more water.

    In my opinion, Sherman had much more to work with than Shula.

    But in both cases, these two first ballot hall of famers should have more super bowl appearances than they do. What a waste, for both Marino and Favre alike. We can blame coaches or GMs, whichever it is, I am still sickened that Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, and now Kyle Brady have more jewelry than Favre and Marino. The common thread with Terry, Joe, and Kyle is that they had very, very good coaches.
  21. pyledriver80
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    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    I think you mean Tom Brady, but yeah it is a shame.

    I did not compare Shula to Sherman actually, however. Mike Sherman was nowhere close to Shula, I was just saying that every coach has players that determine things outside of coaching alone.

    Shula is one of the greatest coaches of all time so to say that Marino didn't have a great coach is a little strange.

    It's not all about the coaching so blaming MS solely is a little generic.

    Belichek had a less than great stint with the Browns. Larry Brown was a good coach with the Pistons and look at the Knicks this year.


    MS is gone, his record with GB was above average in the end. I was not a big Sherman fan but to say that he was god-awful is really just not accurate.
  22. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Pyle

    You brought up the God Awful comment. My claim is that Sherman had more than enough talent to win in the playoffs, but the man simply dropped the ball. He deserved his termination. This thread is about the demise of the Packers and who is to blame. Warhawk and me seem to believe it is on Sherman. Sherman overspent the cap and on players not deserving of the $$$$. Of course this mess is on Sherman, he had control for six years.

    I guess we will all have to agree to disagree on this one! Catch you in another thread man.
  23. DePack
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    DePack Cheesehead

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    Dakota...it's all good. My apologies...I was in a pissy mood yesterday. I've just got a problem with all the world's problems being blamed on Sherman (not you but others). I shouldn't have called anyone idiot. I didn't know who I was addressing at the time. I let the typo go a couple times because I am the worst typist in the world so I usually just let it go.

    Again, sorry if I offended you!
  24. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Very good DePack, and yes it is all good. Thank you!

    And for the record, GB's fall isn't squarely on Sherman, but when your GM and head coach, you happen to be the biggest target. Maybe some fingers should be pointed at Harlan for obviously giving one man too much to handle.
  25. bozz_2006
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    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    i just can't believe they denied the GM/HC position to holmgren, then go and give it to sherman. granted, it didn't work out with holmgren in seattle, but if we had given the position to holmgren, we'd have at least one more Lombardi trophy.

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