WANTED* impact players..

[rodell330]

I've looked over the roster on Defense and have determined that really only Matthews is a high impact player. Raji has just become ordinary.. but i think he's in a spot where he isn't being used correctly and quit frankly?? i think he's out of position. I think he needs to be moved back to DT because he has completely dissapeared wayy to many times this year to the point where they are taking him out on passing downs?? I can honestly say there has been three games this year where i didn't even hear his name. I've been ******* Raji because i know the guy has potential to be a force on the dline..he just hasn't over the past season and a half. Not good for a guy who wants a contract. Mike Daniels has outplayed him and Raji is another former 1st rd pick.

The secondary isn't making plays..Sam Shields is our best cover corner imo but he's still not a guy who we can count on to eliminate half of the field yet. For every good thing Tramon Williams does.. he does three dumb thing's nowadays. Like miss a tackle, get beat for a touchdown, or gets a flag at a crucial time. Making over 7 mil this year and is bascily our 3rd best corner. Not good. Burnett has the size and ball skills to be a top Safety but he has also taken a step backwards. I've seen him miss some tackles that a guy of his caliber should make and he doesn't have a single int. Not good. I don't expect anything from MD Jennings..this guy shouldn't even be on the roster yet alone starting. That shows you how bad thing's are at Safety. House is not a zone corner..he's better suited for man to man as he is probably the most physical corner we have..if we play zone he's almost guaranteed to give up a 1st down or touchdown. Watch the tape and his reaction time is far slower in zone vs man. Some corners are suited for physical style of bump and run and House is that type of corner. It's the coaches job to garner his strengths. For a while Woodson and Harris were the best combo of corners in the league because they were able to play the style of football that suited them best...BUMP AND RUN. Not this vanilla zone Capers likes to call nowadays. Heyward is hurt so he gets a pass and Hyde shows flashes but sometimes gets lost in coverage...i'll chalk that up to being a rook. With more reps his awareness should get better over time.


The backers are average but nothing spectacular. Green Bay is the only team that would pay Brad Jones the type of money he is making and plug him in as a starter. Without TT overpaying for him Jones would most likely be unemployed or strictly special teams and a backup. AJ Hawk could actually start for a handful of teams but you don't gameplan for Aj hawk ..and for a guy that was taken 5th he should be able to make more impact plays on defense. Nick Perry can't cover and is injury prone...he has a handful of good plays but heres another guy that was taken in the 1st rd that we are still waiting on smh. Mike Neal is not an olb..heres another guy that can't cover and i injury prone. He was better suited to stay on the d-line. Lattimore is still an unknown..i have no clue why he doesn't get more pt. I think he and Hawk would make a way better combo. This team lacks impact players on defense..they really are just a bunch of guy's on that side of the ball. I really wish TT would open his wallet in FA and stop depending on his draft picks to pan out.

 

[FrankRizzo]

The secondary isn't making plays..Sam Shields is our best cover corner imo but he's still not a guy who we can count on to eliminate half of the field yet.

Nobody does that. Not Revis Island or Joe Haden, although they usually shut down guys.
Shields is a great cover corner and he will get Tramon's $$ this off-season.
Can't teach speed like Sam has.

I agree with much of what you said though.... but missing Collins and Woodson back there in the back hole, that's where we are suffering.

We have a total combined ZERO interceptions from ALL OUR SAFETIES this season. TEN GAMES, zero picks.

Pass rush has something to do with it, but these guys have been in position to make some picks, and SHOULD have been in position to make some too.

 

[Forget Favre]

Still in shock over this season?
You need to be patient.
There are no quick fixes.
And even if they do get fixed there is no guarantee that it will be the end all solution.
Weather this storm and know that there can be better days ahead.
As 13Champs brought up in another thread, we really do need a win badly.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

You have a poor/very blury opinion of "impact player". CM3 is good, I will give you that, but we did just fine (or even better) when he was out with his injury.....so that right there shoots your theory out of the water.

 

[El Guapo]

How many "high impact" players did our 1996 or 2010 defenses have Rodell? Reggie White in '96 was it.... Matthews in 2010....

I'm not sure that high-impact players equal Super Bowls. IMO, being good at every position with a high-impact guy here or there is what does it. In fact, most defending champions hold onto their high-impact guys but lose their "good" players to other teams that overpay for them in free agency hoping that they become high-impact.

Good teams such as the Patriots, Packers, and Steelers recognize that you can't field a team of studs. You need a few of those guys but you need to coach up your worst players to be better than the other team's worst players. Games aren't won and lost in the marquee matchups between Pro Bowl players, they are most often won by your 2nd and 3rd WR beating the nickel back, or your backup LB stuffing their backup RB. When you get to the playoffs, it's all about backups and lower-tier guys.

 

[mradtke66]

How many "high impact" players did our 1996 or 2010 defenses have Rodell? Reggie White in '96 was it.... Matthews in 2010....

In both cases, you forget number 36. I thought you were older, but perhaps you don't remember LeRoy? Had his career not been cut short with his collar bone, he'd have a legitimate case for the HOF. Ditto Collins in 2010.

And Woodson in 2010.

 

[El Guapo]

Butler never had a chance at the HOF. Those guys were really good but Rodell is talking "high impact" and that's a tall order. Collins was never high impact. Like Butler they were both very good but not anywhere near the level of White or Matthews. I can't remember any MNF games opening with stories about Butler or Collins being high impact players.

Woodson was high-impact and that's a good point, but the over-riding theme of Rodell's argument is that we don't have enough high impact players. I doubt that going from one to two fills Rodell's perceived need

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Butler never had a chance at the HOF. Those guys were really good but Rodell is talking "high impact" and that's a tall order. Collins was never high impact. Like Butler they were both very good but not anywhere near the level of White or Matthews. I can't remember any MNF games opening with stories about Butler or Collins being high impact players.

Woodson was high-impact and that's a good point, but the over-riding theme of Rodell's argument is that we don't have enough high impact players. I doubt that going from one to two fills Rodell's perceived need

Maybe football should drop the salary cap for Roddell and then we should get some george steinbrenner like guy with ultra deep billionaire pockets and we could have a full team of ALL PRO guys.

 

[El Guapo]

Exactly. I understand that's what most people want....heck, I want it....but I don't go around bashing the GM because they can't beat reality.

As Vince Lombardi said, we are going to chase perfection and hopefully catch excellence along the way. Even Vince recognized that he nor the team could be perfect. They would make mistakes but try like heck to avoid them.

 

[rodell330]

You have a poor/very blury opinion of "impact player". CM3 is good, I will give you that, but we did just fine (or even better) when he was out with his injury.....so that right there shoots your theory out of the water.

Ok smart guy then answer this..if you are the opposing offensive coordiantor or quarterback who are you concerned with on the Packers defense? what guy do you gameplan for?

 

[rodell330]

Butler never had a chance at the HOF. Those guys were really good but Rodell is talking "high impact" and that's a tall order. Collins was never high impact. Like Butler they were both very good but not anywhere near the level of White or Matthews. I can't remember any MNF games opening with stories about Butler or Collins being high impact players.

Woodson was high-impact and that's a good point, but the over-riding theme of Rodell's argument is that we don't have enough high impact players. I doubt that going from one to two fills Rodell's perceived need

No it doesn't, but two is better than one..get my drift.?? BTW i considered Collins an impact player..he had great ball skills and could turn ints into points. Was probably the 2nd or 3rd best Safey in the league when he got hurt. Our safties are far from that on this current roster.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Ok smart guy then answer this..if you are the opposing offensive coordiantor or quarterback who are you concerned with on the Packers defense? what guy do you gameplan for?

I would be most concerned (right now) about Neal, he has the most sacks for us. I get your point about game planning, but barring his injury time off, CM3 only has 4 sacks so far......hardly on any mind blowing pace for the leader.....so......

 

[rodell330]

I would be most concerned (right now) about Neal, he has the most sacks for us. I get your point about game planning, but barring his injury time off, CM3 only has 4 sacks so far......hardly on any mind blowing pace for the leader.....so......

Well he's hurt but even with one hand you still have to gameplan for him. As for Neal?? he's a chop block away from being on IR haha.

 

[El Guapo]

No it doesn't, but two is better than one..get my drift.??

Sure do. Eleven is better than two..get my drift??

So let's attack this rationally. If eleven high-impact players is ideal, what is realistic and achievable on a modern NFL roster based on your research?

 

[13 Times Champs]

Back to the original thrust. We need some better players in the secondary (particularly safety), on the DL or at LB. I would like for one of them to be an impact player like Matthews.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I would be most concerned (right now) about Neal, he has the most sacks for us. I get your point about game planning, but barring his injury time off, CM3 only has 4 sacks so far......hardly on any mind blowing pace for the leader.....so......

Huh??? Neal has 2.0 sacks along with a number of Packer players. Leader is Daniels with 4.5 sacks, Clay and Hawk with 4.0 and Jones with 3.0. Clay sat out many games with his thumb injury so that's an important factor in his sack total.

Neal does absolutely nothing for me. He has the same bull rush as Perry and neither get to the QB often enough. He can't play in space (like Perry). Neal is ordinary and that is being generous. I'd game plan for him if I was an offensive coordinator and it would be to take advantage of his inadequacies.

 

[rodell330]

Sure do. Eleven is better than two..get my drift??

So let's attack this rationally. If eleven high-impact players is ideal, what is realistic and achievable on a modern NFL roster based on your research?

Sure do. Eleven is better than two..get my drift??

So let's attack this rationally. If eleven high-impact players is ideal, what is realistic and achievable on a modern NFL roster based on your research?

No team will ever have 11 impact players on a single unit..thats not what i mean. What we need is an impact player at each level..the great defenses usually have that..sometimes two. Perfect example..the 2010 team had Raji and jenkins on the dline, Matthews at lb, and DPOY Charles Woodson in the secondary with Nick Collins. Impact players at each level..this team is missing that element.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Huh??? Neal has 2.0 sacks along with a number of Packer players. Leader is Daniels with 4.5 sacks, Clay and Hawk with 4.0 and Jones with 3.0. Clay sat out many games with his thumb injury so that's an important factor in his sack total.

Neal does absolutely nothing for me. He has the same bull rush as Perry and neither get to the QB often enough. He can't play in space (like Perry). Neal is ordinary and that is being generous. I'd game plan for him if I was an offensive coordinator and it would be to take advantage of his inadequacies.

Sorry, my bad...meant to write Danials.....my BAD. To many names were running through my PTSD brain. lol

 

[mradtke66]

Butler never had a chance at the HOF.

You're joking right? He finished his career, early, mind you, with 20.5 sacks and 38 interceptions. He would have likely been the first in the 30/30 club. Harrison was first in 2007 and later Ray Lewis. He WAS the first in the 20/20 club.

AS IS, Butler has been a HoF nominee in 2013 and 2014 (perhaps more but I'm having trouble verifying that.)

 

[lambeaulambo]

How many "high impact" players did our 1996 or 2010 defenses have Rodell? Reggie White in '96 was it.... Matthews in 2010....

I'm not sure that high-impact players equal Super Bowls. IMO, being good at every position with a high-impact guy here or there is what does it. In fact, most defending champions hold onto their high-impact guys but lose their "good" players to other teams that overpay for them in free agency hoping that they become high-impact.

Good teams such as the Patriots, Packers, and Steelers recognize that you can't field a team of studs. You need a few of those guys but you need to coach up your worst players to be better than the other team's worst players. Games aren't won and lost in the marquee matchups between Pro Bowl players, they are most often won by your 2nd and 3rd WR beating the nickel back, or your backup LB stuffing their backup RB. When you get to the playoffs, it's all about backups and lower-tier guys.

COME ON - Really? White the only one in '96? Omg step away from the pipe. Butler, Simmons, Jones, Brown, Evans, Prior, Robinson, Dotson, Williams, Cox, etc, etc, etc....high impact at times all over the place. Reggie was the piece of the puzzle that gave teams fits, and made the rest of the crew dangerous.

 

[longtimefan]

[quote="rodell330]Lattimore is still an unknown..i have no clue why he doesn't get more pt. I think he and Hawk would make a way better


I really wish TT would open his wallet in FA and stop depending on his draft picks to pan out.[/quote]

Lattimore has been hurt and I think he will be on injury report as out... That is why he hasnt been playing alot. He has been performing very well but I am guessing they were holding him back to not make the muscle worse...


As far as Ted opening wallet.. You trying to make a joke??

 

[rodell330]

Yea TT open his wallet? Silly me.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Sure do. Eleven is better than two..get my drift??

So let's attack this rationally. If eleven high-impact players is ideal, what is realistic and achievable on a modern NFL roster based on your research?

4 would be good number...like Collins, Woodson, Matthews, Raji in 2010...which in this case was nicely spread across the 3 units.

You don't have to be a HOFer or even a Pro Bowler (though 3 of those guys were named) to be an impact player...you just need to have a Pro Bowl-caliber year to qualify, which Raji had that season.

The bottom line: play making = drive killing = impact.

 

[HardRightEdge]

C'mon guys. Raji had a beautiful finger wag in this first quarter against the Vikes...on a play stuffed by Wilson and Pickett. Now he's resorting to poaching screen time. We're getting close to the last straw here.

 

[profile_removed]

How many "high impact" players did our 1996 or 2010 defenses have Rodell? Reggie White in '96 was it.... Matthews in 2010....

Reggie was the highest quality player on D, but we also had Sean Jones, Santana Dotson on that line with him. Eugene Robinson was a sought after free agent when we signed him. Agree with everything else you said though.