Sam Barrington or Jamari Lattimore?

[easyk83]

Hawk had 1 interception not 2 last season.

He forced his first fumble in years, when he blatantly grabbed Adrian Peterson's face mask in the game at Lambeau.

Stop blaming NTs and everyone else for his play.

He has been paid huge money for the production of a journeyman. He will be remembered for his tackles 8-10 yards downfield rather than for any good play.

The sooner he is gone the soon re the D can become respectable.

You are correct that he had one pick not two. As for the rest, laughable. I guess you didn't see BJ Raji consistently getting drive blocked by single blockers out of his gaps, a 34 defense does not work without an NT who can atleast hold the point. Do you not remember our linebackers pre-AJ Hawk? Do you not remember Nate Wayne, Na'il Digs Hannibal Navies, Bernardo Harris? How about Brian Williams, or George Koonce? The only one who was actually good out of that group was Wayne Simmons and he performed with a method of press coverage that should be illegal in all 50 States.

 

[easyk83]

my goodness man, what are you smoking? I want some. Hawk good whether we like him or not huh? OMG NOOOOOO!!! LOL this is laughable!!

Were I smoking anything I would not recommend it to you given your apparent level of reading comprehension. Let me boil this down and hopefully make it simpler for you, like him or not he will likely finish his career as the franchise's all time leading tackler, yes he has been productive.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I remember AJ playing very well with the rest of the unit right up until the interior of the defense collapsing after the first loss against Chicago. Injuries and BJ Raji's decision to mail in the season doomed the defense to mediocrity. Even persistent Hawk critic Bob McGinn generally gave good grades to his play up until that point and the coaches graded him out very well. Not many Linebackers can take on offensive linemen in the gaps and make a play on the ball carrier much. Show me a good LB, and I'll show you a good D-line in front of him.

There´s no doubt that a better defensive line would help Hawk tremendously, but he still wouldn´t be able to tackle running backs without giving up another few yards after contact every single time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Let me boil this down and hopefully make it simpler for you, like him or not he will likely finish his career as the franchise's all time leading tackler, yes he has been productive.

I don´t think the total number of tackles is a great way to judge a player´s performance.

 

[TJV]

Hawk has been the object of discussion many times on this board and when the subject is raised I often wonder how the discussion would go if he had been a late-second or third round pick. IOW, even his most ardent supporters would probably agree he has not fulfilled the expectations of his draft position. Here’s what McGinn had to say about Hawk in his column grading the Jets/Packers game:

The Jets' last score came after Hawk made a terrible decision on third and 6 late in the third quarter. Matched in coverage against Powell, Hawk left him at the last second to rush even though Smith was surrounded in the pocket. A second later, Smith flipped it over Hawk's head to the wide-open Powell, who rammed 20 yards setting up a field goal. It was a costly mistake, one the cerebral Hawk is paid not to make. Otherwise, Hawk filled and tackled well against the run.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-jets-b99351881z1-275239061.html

Now that’s just one play in a game that McGinn otherwise says Hawk played well against the run. And here’s a video of another example from the PackerUpdate site, again just one play from the Seahawks game: http://packerupdate.net/?p=35920 The worst thing about that play is Hawk had help from Peppers inside, Hyde outside, and Burnett behind him, yet he acted as if he were the only one there – basically the same mistake he made in the play above against the Jets. Had he gone hard at Harvin – even if he missed – the others would have had at least a chance to stop them on that 3rd and 1. Hawk supporters may contend that he has a good reason not to trust his teammates, but he has to IMO. BTW, in McGinn’s review of the Seahawks game he agrees with those who say the DL did a poor job keeping blockers off of Hawk.

This is from McGinn’s end of the 2013 season grades:

The good middle linebackers that run defenses combine talent with intangibles. Hawk has all the heart and hustle any coach would want but his shortcomings in speed and athleticism limit the defense. He played more snaps (1,059) than ever before and registered three turnover plays after being shut out the past two years. He led the team in tackles (159) and tackles for loss (5½), finishing second to Brad Jones in tackles per snap among LBs. He also led LBs by allowing six passes of 20 yards or more (his career-high was 7½ as a rookie), led the team by allowing 3½ runs of 20 yards or more and gave up a career-high total of 3½ TD passes. He blitzed 100 times (the Packers would rather blitz Hawk than have him in man coverage), more than twice the total of anyone else, and had his poorest success rate (one every 10 snaps) since '09. He also tied for third in missed tackles with 12. After taking a pay cut in March, he's due a $500,000 roster bonus March 13. He's better slipping blocks than taking them on. He's also playing much lighter these days. Coaches and teammates swear by his communication and technical skills. Grade: C.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/defense12-b99180643z1-239782291.html

What I take away from this, which reflects what I see in Hawk, is that his production is a mixed bag. IMO those who only emphasize the number of tackles he makes, like those who post as if he’s worthless miss the mark. The truth is somewhere in the middle. He gets more criticism than he probably deserves because of where he was drafted, but I agree he lacks athleticism and speed. And for a long-time starting ILB to have one of his better seasons and end up with what I consider a fair grade – a C – is telling. IMO he’s the kind of player – like Brad Jones – that teams should look to replace. He’s not horrible, he just doesn’t add a physical enough presence vs. the run for an ILB who doesn’t cover very well.

 

[OldSchool101]

After all the talk last week about ILB. This Both AJ and Jamari got B and B+ respectively Sunday. Lattimore was hitting the holes Sunday and it shows in the team stats. He's got hunger. I don't recall seeing Barrington on D. Don't get me wrong I'm not a big fan of AJ Hawk but I'm not ready to give up on him that easy. He played really well against a good running team the other day

 

[OldSchool101]

We

Hawk has been the object of discussion many times on this board and when the subject is raised I often wonder how the discussion would go if he had been a late-second or third round pick. IOW, even his most ardent supporters would probably agree he has not fulfilled the expectations of his draft position. Here’s what McGinn had to say about Hawk in his column grading the Jets/Packers game: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-jets-b99351881z1-275239061.html

Now that’s just one play in a game that McGinn otherwise says Hawk played well against the run. And here’s a video of another example from the PackerUpdate site, again just one play from the Seahawks game: http://packerupdate.net/?p=35920 The worst thing about that play is Hawk had help from Peppers inside, Hyde outside, and Burnett behind him, yet he acted as if he were the only one there – basically the same mistake he made in the play above against the Jets. Had he gone hard at Harvin – even if he missed – the others would have had at least a chance to stop them on that 3rd and 1. Hawk supporters may contend that he has a good reason not to trust his teammates, but he has to IMO. BTW, in McGinn’s review of the Seahawks game he agrees with those who say the DL did a poor job keeping blockers off of Hawk.

This is from McGinn’s end of the 2013 season grades: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/defense12-b99180643z1-239782291.html

What I take away from this, which reflects what I see in Hawk, is that his production is a mixed bag. IMO those who only emphasize the number of tackles he makes, like those who post as if he’s worthless miss the mark. The truth is somewhere in the middle. He gets more criticism than he probably deserves because of where he was drafted, but I agree he lacks athleticism and speed. And for a long-time starting ILB to have one of his better seasons and end up with what I consider a fair grade – a C – is telling. IMO he’s the kind of player – like Brad Jones – that teams should look to replace. He’s not horrible, he just doesn’t add a physical enough presence vs. the run for an ILB who doesn’t cover very well.

I'm in agreement. He's average quality with a little grizzle. He's heavy on pickles but short on ketchup. His seasoning offsets the few bites of grizzle. But there's no special sauce to brag about and it's sauce after all, that is the long term success of a product.

 

[easyk83]

After all the talk last week about ILB. This Both AJ and Jamari got B and B+ respectively Sunday. Lattimore was hitting the holes Sunday and it shows in the team stats. He's got hunger. I don't recall seeing Barrington on D. Don't get me wrong I'm not a big fan of AJ Hawk but I'm not ready to give up on him that easy. He played really well against a good running team the other day

If the Packers had someone playing next to Hawk, who was consistently better and a high ceiling talent behind him well then yeah replace him. But who do you replace him with? I don't see Bobbie Wagner sitting on our bench.

I think AJ spent most of his career playing too heavy and while I think he's faster and more athletic than people give him credit(in the last couple of years) he still plays like an overstuffed linebacker with mediocre speed. He's way too cautious in space and doesn't attack the way he should.

The best linebackers in space miss badly often, but when they do miss their aggression usually forces the ball carrier to lose speed/change direction.

thxJack,

I think that Harvin play sums up his shortcomings perfectly, he had a great chance to drop Harvin for a loss or no gain. But thought better of it and played safe, he's almost always makes right reads but it seems like he hesitates way too frequently. He has gotten better in this regard with age, still think his habits are from all of those years playing in the mid 250s.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Were I smoking anything I would not recommend it to you given your apparent level of reading comprehension. Let me boil this down and hopefully make it simpler for you, like him or not he will likely finish his career as the franchise's all time leading tackler, yes he has been productive.

The problem IS AJ Hawk and this love affair TT et al has with him - they have NEVER ATTEMPTED TO draft his replacement, and he has beat out who exactly? My goodness!!!

 

[thisisnate]

Anybody else think guys like Perry, Datone, or Raji would be stud players on a team like San Fran or Seattle? Hawk, no lol I just think he lacks the athletic ability to ever be a stud player. I actually like the guy because he is healthy and consistently a bit above average, but I don't think he has it in him to ever be more than that.

 

[easyk83]

Anybody else think guys like Perry, Datone, or Raji would be stud players on a team like San Fran or Seattle? Hawk, no lol I just think he lacks the athletic ability to ever be a stud player. I actually like the guy because he is healthy and consistently a bit above average, but I don't think he has it in him to ever be more than that.

You never know, Jones and Raji might have been better players in different schemes. Same thing with Perry who projects best as a 43 weak side defensive end, no need to worry about that coverage nonsense just mix the bull rush and edge rush like a Closer uses the fastball and changeup. Hawk was a very different player in College and much much more aggressive. His cautious habits are likely the result of playing too many years way above his ideal weight. He shows good wheels now for his age but has too much hitch in his giddyup, too much hesitation attacking ball carriers.

As for Datone Jones, it's his first full year playing so it's hard to evaluate him. He might yet turn out as a 34 DE but thus far he has been mediocre. I think his best position would be as a 275 pound elephant end, hybrid OLB/light 34 DE.