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Merriman?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by MelrosE, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. SpartaChris
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    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Yeah, maybe. I wouldn't give up a second rounder for him though. Looking at his stats, it looks like he was pretty solid leading up to his injury, and I agree you don't come back nearly as strong when you first return. That said, there's no telling if he will ever be able to make a complete comeback either. He had re-constructive surgery on his knee and was said to also be suffering from foot injuries last season.

    I'd consider a 3rd rounder at most. 2nd seems too steep a price to trade for someone who a) has an attitude problem, and b) appears to have a bit of injury concerns.
  2. ivo610
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    Your trading a pick and also going to have to pay him the money he thinks he deserves to keep him. No thanks. He is a shell of his former self. More often in the news for what/who he does off the field than what he does on it. Declining stats at 26 is a bad sign. For someone who was headed towards a contract year he sure didnt play well.
  3. SpartaChris
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    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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  4. Pacifus
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    Pacifus Cheesehead

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    Not trying to be a Denver homer here, but Shawne is past his prime, not worth the asking price, and not worth the new contract that his agent is demanding. Perhaps, if a third rd. pick were involved, he'd be worth it, but many other teams would be willing to give up better than that. Packers should pass.
  5. FrankRizzo
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    Guys like this are always a question mark.... there are never a guarantee. Nobody is perfectly squeeky-clean, at the top of their game.

    When Randy Moss went to New England and set the NFL's All-Time TD Receiving record, there were tons of sceptics who said he was washed up, old, had lost a step. Or worse, didn't try anymore.

    When Terrell Owens left San Fran to go to Philly, he had lost a step and wasn't worth the trouble. Well turned out that was the only time McNabb ever got to a Super Bowl, and TO was phenomenal in that Super Bowl game vs New England.

    Charles Woodson was a bad apple, and always injured in Oakland. Nobody wanted him even for free! Now look 4 years late.

    Keyshawn Johnson and Simeon Rice to Tampa Bay, Thomas Jones to Tampa Bay and to Chicago (2 Super Bowls)... Geezer Farve to Minnesota. Antoine Winfield to Minnesota. Risky Jared Allen to Minnesota. Old and fat Pat Williams to Minnesota.... Deion Sanders to Dallas and San Francisco...Keith Jackson from Philly to the Packers was no slam-dunk and people thought his best days were behind him.....all talented guys.

    You see, often times talent trumps everything. Those guys, and Shawne Merriman, were & are premiere talents. Premium talent doesn't disappear unless they're so injured they can't move like they need to. That's the IF here.

    The only question/worry I have about Merriman is his injured knee. I don't know the details on what that injury was and is now.
    He's young. The reason he didn't do anything last year was he was still recovering from the knee surgery. That happens to many players with ACL's in year one after the injury. We'll see it with Al Harris and Will Blackmon. But this is year 2 for Merriman.

    The other worry with him is the steroid situation. He already has at least one strike. Remember in 2007 he missed 4 games and still led the NFL in sacks.

    And I would not just hand him a boatload of money right away. I'd make him prove his worth in this season, make it a huge contract year. If he comes close to the NFL DPOY like he played like 2-3 years ago, I'd give him the payday he earned. Remember we might be able to take Justin Harrell and AJ Hawk's contract off the books next season so I don't see money being an issue. It's all about whether Lights-Out can come back. If he can, with Matthews, there'd be no better OLB combo than that.

    We're talking about, potentially, the #64 pick in the next draft, and we could get an All-Pro on borrowed time, which I look at it as a free year since that would be using a 2011 pick and getting the guy a season early.
    Sometimes, it's worth swinging for the fence instead of always trying to sacrifice and bunt people over.

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  6. FrankRizzo
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    I like the way you think, tell it like it is.
    Merriman is still actually only 25, although he turns 26 next week.

    Here's the scoop on Merriman:
    Age 25.
    6' 4", 265, a tank.
    2005 #12 overall pick, ahead of Demarcus Ware, behind Troy Williamson (haha Vikings).

    • 2005-06: Was 2 weeks late to camp due to contract negotiations. Didn't start til wek 7. Still had 10 sacks his rookie year (same as Matthews rookie year last year) in 15 games. Came up huge in week 15 as the Chargers gave the Colts their first loss of the season. he had two tackles for loss, and two sacks, including the clinching sack on Peyton Manning on 4th & goal. Made Pro Bowl as rookie.
    • 2006-07: Suspended first 4 games of 2006 (Brian Cushing), still led NFL in sacks with 17 in 12 games.
    • 2007-08: 12 1/2 sacks in 15 games.
    • 2008-09: Tried to play injured, couldn't. Was shut down and missed whole season. He had a tear in both his posterior cruciate ligament and lateral collateral ligament.
    • 2009-10: Coming off knee surgeries, played in 14 games, only had 4 sacks, showed rust and tentativeness with the knee.
    Merriman is a 3-time All-Pro (two of them first-team). He's not old at almost 26. He's in what is typically the prime of a LBers career. See LT and Derrick Thomas, and James Harrison who I think is 30.

    Like Charles Woodson, Desmond Howard, Keith Jackson, and even Reggie White, it would appear that the player has already started to go downhill. But remember special talent usually rises to the top. Many Packer fans bought into the Randy Moss negative-hype that he was washed up at age 30 and too slow, had lost it.

    Anytime you can get a chance to get a true difference-maker, a true blue-chipper, for as little as the #64 overall pick, you HAVE TO take that chance. Especially considering OLB is a weakness of ours. Imagine what will happen if Matthews gets hurt or gets a suspension like Cushing did.

    I know Brad Jones has some talent. But Merriman has special talent and Merriman commands double-teams most of the time, which will help keep Matthews freed up 1-on-1. That's a dangerous, lethal combo and I know my two good friends who are Viking fans said they do not want to see Merriman in a Packer uniform.

    Merriman could give our defense the missing piece, plus attitude, to take us to the next level.

    Anyone remember Charles Haley, and what he and his pass-rush did for the 49ers and Cowboys back in the early/mid 90's? He had plenty of strikes against him, worse than Merriman, but his talent made the difference and he won like 3 or 4 Super Bowls.

    [​IMG]

    Shawne Merriman Grade: 4.2 Position: DE
    Class: Jr
    School: Maryland
    Conference: ACC
    Ht., Wt.: 6-4.5, 272
    40 Time: 4.65
    Selected by: San Diego Chargers

    Round 1, pick 12 (12 overall)

    [​IMG] BIO: All-Conference selection as a junior after posting 85/17/8.5. Battled injuries much of his sophomore campaign and finished with 55/9.5/8.5.

    POSITIVES: Athletic defender who displays great suddenness to his game. Explosive up the field, redirects to ballcarriers and fast moving laterally. Pursues to the flanks with speed, displays outstanding range and the ability to defeat blocks. Breaks down well, tough to knock off his feet and strong at the point of attack. Possesses a closing burst of speed and flashes on the scene. Disciplined in pass coverage, effective in space and fast off the edge when lined up in a three-point stance.

    NEGATIVES: Must develop more moves with his hands to get off blocks rather than just relying on brute force. Much better making plays up the field than in reverse.

    ANALYSIS: A difference-maker and disruptive force, Merriman is an outstanding athlete with top measurables for the next level. Best suited to play over tight end in a 3-4 defense and has the potential to develop into an impact defender at the next level.

    PROJECTION: Early First Round



    This could/would/will be one of those cases where the team that lets the guy go, later watches the guy dominate again and all their fans bitch at the ownership and say "why the f*** did we get rid of our best player or one of our best players?"
    Chiefs fans are pissed they traded Jared Allen. Vikings fans wish they never would have traded Randy Moss. Raiders fans, again, are sick that they let Charles Woodson go, for free. Those guys had risk too, let's remember.


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQN_cqbsSbY&feature=related"]YouTube- Shawne Merriman[/ame]
  7. FrankRizzo
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    This could be our Super Bowl matchup with Merriman on our side:
    We need more pass rush to stop great QBs. Pretending that will come just naturally because of year-2 of Dom's system is a bit naive. And expecting Tim Knicky or Frank Zombo to bring it like this is a pipe-dream.
    Late 2nd rounder for Merriman would really send a scare into QBs like Farve and Cutler when we face them this year. We need that.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  8. Pacifus
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    If this is the case, he might be worth the consideration if he'd chill on the contract demands. He's still got quite a bit of juice left (pun intended), even though his best years are clearly behind him. That said, there's no way that TT makes this move. I've only been a fan for about 7 years, but I'm pretty sure that TT wouldn't give up a 2nd for him, especially if the first thing he's going to is complain about a new contract.

    BTW, it would kill me to root for this punk.
  9. FrankRizzo
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    I'm sure you are correct about that, unfortunately for Packer fans sake.
  10. PackersRS
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    Yeah, I disagree with you on that one... I really don't think Merriman is the difference between us winning it all or not.

    I think his problem is the knee, and not the juice. And even still, I wouldn't bet the future of our franchise (monstruous salary + 2nd round pick = future of our franchise) that he'll pick up the pace again. Not to mention the locker room chemistry issue, and the fact that Merriman has played the same side as CM3 his whole career...

    Having a bum knee myself, it's just different, before and after. Yeah, I play soccer, but still...

    I think people are overreacting with the need for FAs.

    If a key player goes down, I'll be the first to call for FAs, as I did last year with the CBs.

    But, with everyone healthy, I don't see the need. I would like OLB depth, not an overpaid starter, but that's it...
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  11. FrankRizzo
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    Brad Jones becomes the depth, as Bulaga and Mike Neal are.

    If the knee is still bad, then it's a no-go.

    Merriman is under contract so doing a brand new big deal will wait til he gives us that type of production.

    I agree with the locker room thing. Chemistry is pretty important. From talking with Bedard a few weeks ago, there already are some guys simmering. He didn't say who, but I am guessing Atari Bigby first.
  12. NYPacker
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    Right, you WANT Merriman to work for his contract just like anyone else. I'm sorry to break the news to you but Merriman isn't going to work for that payday. Let's consider TT pulls the trigger and trades for the guy right this second. Merriman would expect to have a new contract as soon as the following day. The guy will not attend a single OTA and might hold out of training camp. I like the idea of making the guy earn the money, however Merriman isn't one of those guys who's willing to do that.
  13. Dizzle498
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    Dizzle498 Cheesehead

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    I agree, but lets not demonize Merriman, every single NFL player works this way. Every player that gets traded always wants a new contract. I do think we could get him though for a 2nd round pick next year. Maybe a 2 and a 3.
  14. PackersRS
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    Problem is that he wants that contract despite not playing well for 2 seasons, and with no certainties that he'll perform up to that contract. And that contract will probably clog our cap (yeah, this is an uncapped year, but still), generate envy from some "unpaid" player (Bigby)... A whole mess.
  15. FrankRizzo
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    I like Bigby, but with all due respect, you don't not bring in a 25-year old 3-time All-Pro because it might hurt the feelings of Atari and might cause problems in the locker room.
    We already drafted Atari's replacement in Burnett.

    At OLB, I brought in a bunch of scrubs.

    Merriman is man enough to understand that he can earn a sh#tload of money by playing great this year. In other words, you make this a contact year.

    You know how guys play in contract years.
  16. PackersRS
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    I used Bigby as an example. Finley's contract is due to 2011. Would you bring Merriman, if it could hurt our chances of re-signing JMike???
  17. ivo610
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    this has nothing to do with bringing him in or not, but I cant stand his sack dance. I hate it as much as Jared Allens.
  18. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    No I wouldn't, but I think jMike would like to see Merriman join his team.
    But we'll see what the dollars look like.
    I think we'll have a handful of big contracts coming off the books in 011.
  19. FrankRizzo
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    I don't love it either, but I'd sure love it right over Farve or Cutler, Eli or Romo this year for us.

    I don't like Barnetts samurai, but I have come around because I realize A) it pisses off the other team, and fans, and B) it means it's a good play for us!
  20. ivo610
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    Really the only one that comes to mind that I like is Ray Lewis's celebration.
  21. FrankRizzo
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    Are you old enough to remember former Packer Tim Harris and his 6-shooter?
    That pissed off the opponent so much, especially the Vikings! I loved it.

    Anything now that upsets the opponent, gets em all riled up, I like it.

    That's why I've come around with the Samurai of Barnett.

    Hell, if it means a sack of Farve occured, I'm fine with the Mark Gastineau sack dance! Or bring back the worm! Who did that worm thing?
  22. NYPacker
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    Again this is an assumption that Merriman will act accordingly in a good way. Signs point to him manning up and having a comeback year based on what he said on twitter about how hard he's working this offseason. But he is disgruntled at the same time and we'll have to see how he acts during the Chargers' OTA's and training camp.

    Guys also tend to hold out in contract years.
  23. FrankRizzo
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    True. If he got shipped out of San Diego, he would not further damage his reputation by holding out.
    Often times, a player in a situation like that will be given a new contract. But many times they won't.

    He'd be in that 2nd category, and he's good enough to take that challenge.

    Good call on his tweeting. I follow him and like him there. He's not a bad guy. He's a pretty good person and I think fits TTs MO as a person.
  24. ivo610
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    Harris had a couple great seasons for us. Not much of a Gastineau fan though...
  25. JBlood
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    Certainly wasn't the same player last year after the knee injury of 2008. Maybe he'll be better this year, but I wouldn't bend over backwards to get him. Plus, he likes to choke girls, which bothers me. He would add depth, I guess.

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