Arthur Squires
Cheesehead
Do you always have to disagree?I prefer to have a sure tackler back in the secondary over someone capable of laying out an occasional big hit.
Do you always have to disagree?I prefer to have a sure tackler back in the secondary over someone capable of laying out an occasional big hit.
Just remember that PFF absolutely hated Keanu Neal in college for many of the same reasons, and thought he was a revelation in his rookie season.
Do you always have to disagree?
You were going to stay out of it and then you didn't. And you obviously did not follow the conversation.
You're more likely to have an adverse outcome if somebody "hits" you on the road than if your passenger "hurries" you along. And it get's a whole lot worse if your car is "sacked" because you are drunk than if it's just a fender bender "hit" .
How much difference is there among the scenarios? That is the question unanswered so far. And how do each of those outcomes stack up relative to when you are neither sacked, hit or hurried?
I also hope so. His shortcomings are definitely correctable. He's got coverage ability that isn't strictly projection-driven, and he's got the size, athleticism, and aggressiveness to stop guys short of the 1st down marker. Other than the missed tackles, I was just disappointed with his play inside the box. He's got all of the tools to thrive there, yet seemed very passive. Completely different than the attitude he shows when he feels like he's got a clear hit on an opposing player.I'm aware that PFF didn't like Neal coming out of college but graded him pretty well during his rookie season. I definitely hope the same holds true with Josh Jones.
In the post you replied to I wasn't talking about him in particular.
No, I agree with a lot of stuff being posted on the forum.
I also hope so. His shortcomings are definitely correctable. He's got coverage ability that isn't strictly projection-driven, and he's got the size, athleticism, and aggressiveness to stop guys short of the 1st down marker. Other than the missed tackles, I was just disappointed with his play inside the box. He's got all of the tools to thrive there, yet seemed very passive. Completely different than the attitude he shows when he feels like he's got a clear hit on an opposing player.
Your statements are self-contradictory. If you cannot compare passing efficiency between hits, hurries and no pressure, and the value of sacks, and in particular strip sacks, where this is no passer rating, then there's no basis for an assumption about their relative values.Uhmmm....your reply has nothing to do with what I was responding to. You pointed out that lots of interceptions occur when the passer is not hurried. There's no point to that statement in this discussion. People are trying to point out that hurries result in marked drops of passing efficiency in the NFL. Pointing out something that happens when there are no hurries doesn't prove anything in this discussion.
That's true. He's a good matchup player, but much like Obi, he seems to lack the instincts to be as disruptive as his athleticism suggests he could be while he's defending space. He's more aggressive and tries harder than Melifonwu to be the enforcer, but Obi is more polished and makes far fewer mistakes, based on the tape that I watched. With the football IQ of Jamal Adams, he could be the #1 pick.There's no doubt Jones has the athletic traits necessary to thrive playing a hybrid linebacker/safety role. Unfortunately he tends to make mental errors, especially playing in a zone coverage scheme, and miss tackles too often.
I like what you say and it makes good sense. Isn't Thomas Davis kind of like that? Still, it is just difficult for me to see something better in the middle than a Butkus, Nitschke, Lambert, Lewis etc.One thing I took away from watching the Falcons in the SB was their 2 LBs, Deion Jones & Devondre Campbell, were absolutely flying around. If Josh Jones could do what Jones did in the SB, that would mean worlds to GBs defense.
IMO that is going to be the new wave in the NFL, these undersized, hyper-athletic LBs who can flex out with RBs in coverage or play man on the hybrid receiving TEs in the NFL now. Being able to play 2 LBs on the field and have both able to match up with a TE and RB is the new defensive chess piece(s) teams will be looking for. Maybe Jones is one.
Josh Jones is going to be our wild card on defense. Just like Montgomery is for the offense. Monty is a rb for run plays, and a wr for pass plays. Jones is a safety for pass plays and a lb for run plays. We will see how he does against the run against NFL players. But one great thing he has going for him is that Thompson is stacking the dline this year. It was also said, he likes to and excels at sticking his nose in there at the line, and making plays... sounds like a ilb.....One thing I took away from watching the Falcons in the SB was their 2 LBs, Deion Jones & Devondre Campbell, were absolutely flying around. If Josh Jones could do what Jones did in the SB, that would mean worlds to GBs defense.
IMO that is going to be the new wave in the NFL, these undersized, hyper-athletic LBs who can flex out with RBs in coverage or play man on the hybrid receiving TEs in the NFL now. Being able to play 2 LBs on the field and have both able to match up with a TE and RB is the new defensive chess piece(s) teams will be looking for. Maybe Jones is one.
Josh Jones is going to be our wild card on defense. Jones is a safety for pass plays and a lb for run plays.
There's no doubt Jones has the athletic traits necessary to thrive playing a hybrid linebacker/safety role. Unfortunately he tends to make mental errors, especially playing in a zone coverage scheme, and miss tackles too often.
You missed my point. His position is....flexible. where he lines up isn't the point. He has the skills of safety to cover a te or rb. And if the play ends up being a run, he has the skills to go get the rb, as a ilb would.The Packers for sure don't plan on using Jones as a safety on passing plays as Burnett and Clinton-Dix are set as the starters at both spots.
The rookie will most likely receive playing time replacing one of the inside linebackers on obvious passing downs.
Or the Woodson position to honor Charles who patented the position you speak of.He almost needs a new name... like, eagle ilb.
Burnett and dix are entering the realm of woodsons understanding of the game imo. When they can identify run or pass surely enough to abandon scheme responsibilities. Woodson was not only able to do that. But trusted enough to be allowed to do it. Then he would blow up the play, and make huge impact plays besides...Or the Woodson position to honor Charles who patented the position you speak of.
You missed my point. His position is....flexible. where he lines up isn't the point. He has the skills of safety to cover a te or rb. And if the play ends up being a run, he has the skills to go get the rb, as a ilb would.
I could see Jones as a permanent fixture at (eagle)ilb. Essentially allowing us to have a nickel back in at all times. Before the actual nickel back has to be called in.
Completely disagree. Neither are anywhere close to Woodson's level imo. More importantly they don't complement each other well imo.Burnett and dix are entering the realm of woodsons understanding of the game imo. When they can identify run or pass surely enough to abandon scheme responsibilities. Woodson was not only able to do that. But trusted enough to be allowed to do it. Then he would blow up the play, and make huge impact plays besides...
With a strong defense around them. Our guys could be trusted to do that imo.
Completely disagree. Neither are anywhere close to Woodson's level imo. More importantly they don't complement each other well imo.
It's true that neither Burnett nor Clinton-Dix perform close to Woodson's level in his prime but in my opinion they complement each other pretty well and form one of the best safety tandems in the league.
I like Burnett and Haha but we could use some more speed back there. Woodsen had Collins back there allowing Charles to do some things that he might not be able to normally do. Nick Collins is probably one of the most underrated Packers of all time.
Enter Josh Jones and we should be set.
Brice has potential, for sure. I like him.Speaking of hard hitting safety's. Kentrell Brice was dropping bombs last year. ! If he comes back a little stronger, bigger, and still willing to sacrifice the body the way he does. How do we not play him? Still have a healthy Randall/Rollins/Gunter trio needing some reps...king, house, and Jones come in and knock everyone down the depth chart three spots... Our secondary starts to look stacked .
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