Fire Capers

[Poppa San]

Weather you like it or not this is relevant. Would you rather have someone make a thread every week?

That's it in a nutshell. Every season after a bad defensive showing the thread is bumped. sooner or later it will prove prophetic.

 

[Forget Favre]

Weather you like it or not this is relevant. Would you rather have someone make a thread every week?

The players never get the blame.

 

[Croak]

I wish this thread was locked and put away.
I might have to put the thread starter on "ignore" just so I don't have to see the same damn crap about firing Capers every season.
That is not just getting old. It has gotten old.
Why was this bumped?

Sorry FF. I'm the one who restarted it. Previously I thought Coach Capers had the right ideas and it was the personnel who weren't with the scheme. But after watching notorious 3-4 powerhouse defenses like Baltimore and Pittsburgh look like they were running with their jocks around their ankles, I began to wonder if the scheme itself is the problem. Maybe Coach Capers can adapt, but I'm not sure you can teach an old dog new tricks. Or I could be totally off the wall on this.

 

[Forget Favre]

Sorry FF. I'm the one who restarted it. Previously I thought Coach Capers had the right ideas and it was the personnel who weren't with the scheme. But after watching notorious 3-4 powerhouse defenses like Baltimore and Pittsburgh look like they were running with their jocks around their ankles, I began to wonder if the scheme itself is the problem. Maybe Coach Capers can adapt, but I'm not sure you can teach an old dog new tricks. Or I could be totally off the wall on this.

It does seem to be the same old plan on both sides of the ball every year and it's not helping.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Right next to that is the "thread options" and you can just ignore the thread entirely.

 

[OldSchool101]

The O sputtering made the D look worse. Check time of possession. Although Linsley did ok, missing Bulaga and a rook at C didn't help matters.when it comes to momentum us having 2 more drives and them having 2 less..huge. That and cleaning up some 1st game miscues. And it's a 1 score game. If we had made 1 INT or that Jordy pass goes unpicked it's a real game even with all the D run gashing GB O needed To control the clock against a ground heavy opponent. It's not a surprise that a Relatively new D structure doesn't go as planned game 1. IMO. Our offense play calling was ultra conservative while theirs... Ultra liberal

 

[OldSchool101]

Defense did NOT lose this game. MM and AR did. 3 plays. 3 lousy plays cost the packers. right before half Mm call TO. The AR throws ball OB. leads to a 63 yard FG. Then AR throws int right after packers get ball back after Cobb return and defense forcing 3 and out. costs 7 points. Total of 10 points. packers lost by 8. Again it all falls on MM and AR. To think otherwise means you wear rose colored glasses

Spot on I concur sir. Time of possession time of possession

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not willing to forgive the defense based off the performance of the offense. I see teams out there with better performing defenses that have a lot worse offenses than we have. Defensive stat after defensive stat shows our defensive got flat out blown out. And watching the game, it wasn't because they wore down in the 4th quarter. They just got manhandled everywhere.

It's ok.
We don't need to forgive them..they havnt personally offended us. I think? Lol. We needed our offense to play more consistent early into a new D. I said before this game started that we wouldn't gel on D for a Half season. we all expect they gradually improve, but they need live action that a practice can't provide. The point is our play calling and O execution was substandard at best. They've already said that so it's it isnt just my opinion. We both want the same outcome, trust me. But clock management is important and factored into the Seattle loss.

 

[El Guapo]

I don't actually click on the "Ignore" button. Threads like this allow me to figure out who's ideas to outright ignore because they are calling for the D-coordinator to go after one game. It's not EVER going to happen mid-season with this team.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I don't actually click on the "Ignore" button. Threads like this allow me to figure out who's ideas to outright ignore because they are calling for the D-coordinator to go after one game. It's not EVER going to happen mid-season with this team.

That's a ridiculous statement. Dom Capers has been with the team since 2009 and OP for this thread was posted in 2012. While the most recent discussion is over the current events of the situation, to say that people are calling for his job after a singular game is disingenuous and untrue. There is a dearth of examples to draw from; it's not like this was the first bad game that the D has played while under Capers' tutelage.

 

[OldSchool101]

By

I'm not willing to forgive the defense based off the performance of the offense. I see teams out there with better performing defenses that have a lot worse offenses than we have. Defensive stat after defensive stat shows our defensive got flat out blown out. And watching the game, it wasn't because they wore down in the 4th quarter. They just got manhandled everywhere.

by the way.. Nobody's in more agreement that we played l

That's a ridiculous statement. Dom Capers has been with the team since 2009 and OP for this thread was posted in 2012. While the most recent discussion is over the current events of the situation, to say that people are calling for his job after a singular game is disingenuous and untrue. There is a dearth of examples to draw from; it's not like this was the first bad game that the D has played while under Capers' tutelage.

tutelage ? I love that word! Thank you so much !

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm thinking some Defensive tutelage should solve the issue...
P.S. I called Dave Letterman he was out for comment.. But his office personnel thoroughly agreed.

 

[El Guapo]

it's not like this was the first bad game that the D has played while under Capers' tutelage.

Fair enough

 

[packfan1]

You simply cannot make a 2-4 defense your staple against a running team-you need to stop the run first because that opens up everything else. 2-4 defense on 3rd and 20 great... But not as your main defense. Stop the run - then the secondary knows it can just guard the guy in front of them also. Not controlling the LOS is his biggest error schematically and it needs to change for the defense to be consistently successful.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I think I may now be on board with this.

Any time I heard this talk in the past, I've gotten upset at the suggestion, but this D is looking absolutely crappy. Inexcuseable.

I know the Jets O isn't exactly conventional, but there is clearly missed assignment football going on here and there shouldn't be. Geno Smith may be no Mark Sanchez, but if he's good, why was he struggling against the Raiders?

And that Seattle O we struggled with last week, is losing to the Chargers, and I don't think that Charger D is anything special.


Capers I think has done a great job in the NFL of year's past, and yeah without him we probably don't win Superbowl XLV, but looking at his defenses now, and looking at how his successor in Pittsburgh LeBeau is also doing these days, these old style defenses just don't seem to work anymore. I think we stay with the 3-4, but we gotta change the pass defense schemes up a bit, because we are getting behind in our coverage assignments.

I'm sorry, but he clearly seems to have lost his mind lately.

 

[H1CKS]

I am fully on board with "this season is lost" train. This team doesn't have it. And it starts from the top. 4 years of this trash defense is enough. He's not the only coach/coordinator who needs to go. Campen and Slocum need to go too.

All we can hope for is that they're so abysmally bad that changes HAVE to be made and they can't ignore the problems and hope for better next season.

We've seen the prime of Rodgers get pissed away. And it really hurts to know that.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Packers are gettiny physically whipped

 

[Carl]

Defense played absolutely lights out for about 2.5 quarters.

If Capers gets so much blame for the first 1.5 quarters, he gets just as much credit for the last 2.5.

Good win! Go Pack!

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Well, after getting a critical win here, and after calming down a little bit, I'll say this. Give Capers some credit where it's due. Tramon's interception did turn the tide of this game, so our D does get some points for that. And after getting beat on D early, we did tighten things up a bit and only gave up 3 the rest of the way. But we also did have some fortunate circumstances move our way. Eric Decker going out seemed to take a little life out of the Jets O, and if not for Marty Mornhignwig or however you spell that, not knowing he wasn't supposed to call timeout, it would've looked even worse on our part. But at the end of the day, a win is still a win and I'll say I'm happy about it.

But it would be a big mistake to say this D doesn't still have issues that need to be resolved. Granted I'm not going to expect Capers to go a full year without some teams just outplaying our D on O, as that happens to every team at some point, but we definitely can't afford to consistently see it happen with our units.

 

[PackManDan]

Well, after getting a critical win here, and after calming down a little bit, I'll say this. Give Capers some credit where it's due. Tramon's interception did turn the tide of this game, so our D does get some points for that. And after getting beat on D early, we did tighten things up a bit and only gave up 3 the rest of the way. But we also did have some fortunate circumstances move our way. Eric Decker going out seemed to take a little life out of the Jets O, and if not for Marty Mornhignwig or however you spell that, not knowing he wasn't supposed to call timeout, it would've looked even worse on our part. But at the end of the day, a win is still a win and I'll say I'm happy about it.

But it would be a big mistake to say this D doesn't still have issues that need to be resolved. Granted I'm not going to expect Capers to go a full year without some teams just outplaying our D on O, as that happens to every team at some point, but we definitely can't afford to consistently see it happen with our units.

So you pretty much went from saying you are on board with firing Capers. His scheme doesn't work anymore. Get rid of him. To, well wait just a minute, he deserves a lot of credit for the last half of the game. He's excused?? That is the problem with today's game. I thought if the Packers went on to win people would just excuse what they saw in the first half. I'm on board with the fire Capers plan and maybe fire some other coaches as well. I'm on board with maybe we need to be completely revamped and have a completely different scheme. But apparently to some people they can go from fire him to nevermind in the same game. Have you forgotten about the last 3 years of terrible defense or does today just make it OK again?

 

[Carl]

I wonder how people would feel if the Jets didn't call a timeout and if the 50'ish yard TD stood.

The same, as the defender was there, but didn't make the play. That's not on Capers.

So many bad plays are blamed on Capers even when a player clearly screws up. Jets second TD is a perfect example when the chat was mad about Capers. Blitz got home, but Shields got burned. Play works if Shields does his job. Can't say he shouldn't let Shields be one on one either as a coordinator has to trust his number one corner to win those match ups.

Another example is the 3rd and 11 on the Jets first drive and the chat was blaming Capers. Hawk and whoever else had the middle zone and completely messed it up. There is no play call that Capers has that is designed to let a player catch the ball in space nine yards down the field on 3rd and 11.

 

[Carl]

So you pretty much went from saying you are on board with firing Capers. His scheme doesn't work anymore. Get rid of him. To, well wait just a minute, he deserves a lot of credit for the last half of the game. He's excused?? That is the problem with today's game. I thought if the Packers went on to win people would just excuse what they saw in the first half. I'm on board with the fire Capers plan and maybe fire some other coaches as well. I'm on board with maybe we need to be completely revamped and have a completely different scheme. But apparently to some people they can go from fire him to nevermind in the same game. Have you forgotten about the last 3 years of terrible defense or does today just make it OK again?

No. That's not what he was saying at all.

All he said was he was going to give credit where credit is due. He didn't make one mention of the last three years and even acknowledged the defense still has issues.

 

[jaybadger82]

Defense played absolutely lights out for about 2.5 quarters.

If Capers gets so much blame for the first 1.5 quarters, he gets just as much credit for the last 2.5.

Good win! Go Pack!

The same, as the defender was there, but didn't make the play. That's not on Capers.

So many bad plays are blamed on Capers even when a player clearly screws up. Jets second TD is a perfect example when the chat was mad about Capers. Blitz got home, but Shields got burned. Play works if Shields does his job. Can't say he shouldn't let Shields be one on one either as a coordinator has to trust his number one corner to win those match ups.

Carl's arguments on this subject can generally be summarized as follows: "When the defense plays poorly, the players aren't executing correctly but, when the defense plays well, Capers should be lauded." -Sure, whatever.

...on the other hand, sharing an opinion with a poster like DraftHobbyist has me rethinking my position.

 

[easyk83]

I wonder how people would feel if the Jets didn't call a timeout and if the 50'ish yard TD stood.

The same, as the defender was there, but didn't make the play. That's not on Capers.

So many bad plays are blamed on Capers even when a player clearly screws up. Jets second TD is a perfect example when the chat was mad about Capers. Blitz got home, but Shields got burned. Play works if Shields does his job. Can't say he shouldn't let Shields be one on one either as a coordinator has to trust his number one corner to win those match ups.

Another example is the 3rd and 11 on the Jets first drive and the chat was blaming Capers. Hawk and whoever else had the middle zone and completely messed it up. There is no play call that Capers has that is designed to let a player catch the ball in space nine yards down the field on 3rd and 11.

Agreed Hawk was playing way too cautiously there, he needs to close on that receiver as soon as he sits down in the zone. Should have been 4th and 2 at worst.

 

[Carl]

Carl's arguments on this subject can generally be summarized as follows: "When the defense plays poorly, the players aren't executing correctly but, when the defense plays well, Capers should be lauded." -OK, Carl, whatever.

...on the other hand, sharing an opinion with a poster like DraftHobbyist has me rethinking my position.

One post said that if Capers gets blame for bad plays, he should get credit for good ones. Why only blame him? How could they play great for 2.5 quarters if Capers was doing a bad job?

The other said it doesn't make sense to blame Capers when a player clearly screws up.

That does not mean a play call is never bad or that a player never makes a good play.