Breaking Down The Packers : Offensive Line

[wizard 87]

Started breaking down the team last week at the HQ and thought I would share:

Here we go with what is arguably the toughest break down on the team the O-line.
The big news is the addition of first round pick OT Bryan Bulaga. Bulaga will start out backing up Clifton at LT and he needs to stay there IMHO and be the rock on Rodgers blind side for years to come. Speaking of Clifton can he stay healthy for 16 plus games ? I doubt it so get your new stud ready to protect the franchise !
At LG we have an issue that also affects RT. The Packer OL coaches want Lang to play # 2 RT....this is a issue that makes my blood boil !
TJ Lang is a player that could be a pro bowl LG and pairing with Bulaga could solidify the weak side for several years.However as it stands the packers are looking at Allen Barbe as there starting LG with Colledge and Spitz in the mix.
Center is another strange position where Scott Wells was in the out house last season but got to play due to injury and now is there starter.
This fly's all over me because first it's an unwritten rule that you don't lose or gain a permanent starting job due to injury, but mostly Wells gets owned up front at times and has tendency to hold while doing so. I believe Jason Spitz should be the starter if possible but again that's not playing out right now.
RG is set with Josh Sitton and about 3 guys behind him. RT has Mark Tauscher starting and Lang behind him but saw Breno Giacomini getting a ton of work during OTA "S.
Evan Dietrich-Smith can start at 3 spots on the line and maybe even 4 so his versatility is a must have.
My starting O-line would be Clifton,Lang,Spitz,Sitton and Tauscher.....as it stands the Packers have Wells at Center and our non committal at LG.
This group must improve if the packers have any chance to go the distance this year .

If your interested in the other two breakdowns there here:Packer Warroom

 

[PackersRS]

I know the whole "you put the 5 best out there" rule, but the thing is, Tauscher is pretty much done, and we have absolutely nothing at RT. While at LG we have some OK guys in Colledge and Spitz, and we could have something with Newhouse.

I still think we need to groom Lang at RT, where he could be a great starting tackle, and let the other guys battle for the LG spot.

 

[aaronqb]

It's fun to break down the OL, but it seems to me there are too many unknowns right now to get too excited right now. Training camp will give us some of the answers - but even then it may be tough to get a read on what is going on. And the questions range from health to best positions for our players to managing Clifton and Tauscher out in the next few years. Here are some of the questions I see on the OL:

1. How healthy will Clifton be and how many games will he start and finish this year? And how is the coaching staff looking at it? How many more years does Clifton have in him? If the staff sees Clifton as a starter for another two years and the doctors believe he will stay healthy, they may want to get Bulaga on the field at another position (say RT).

2. What is the condition of Spitz' back? Healthy, he is probably our best center. But, can he stay healthy?

3. Where is Lang's best position? I think one can make a case that he is one of the 5 best OL on the team. If so, it may be best to focus him on one position. Based on last year, I don't think we have any idea where he ends up.

4. How much does Tauscher have left in the tank? Is he still one of the 5 best on the team? If not, maybe the Packers are better off with Bulaga as RT and Tauscher as the backup in case Clifton goes down with injury.

5. Where, if anywhere, does Newhouse fit? Apparently, he was able to play any position on the OL in college except Center. Where do the Packers see him in their plans?

6. How about Giacomini and Barbre? Do they have any future in GB?

7. Do the Packers keep an extra OL on the 53 because Clifton and Tauscher have limited years left? And what is the plan to replace these two veterans over the next few years?

8. Is Colledge starting caliber? In 2008, it sure seemed like he was. Last year, he took and step back and blamed it on moving around between tackle and guard (I don't buy it). If he is starting caliber, is he this year's starting LG or are there better options?

9. Are there any OL who are expendable and valuable such that they fetch a decent OLB or DB in a trade around the time of final roster cut downs?

 

[KiDcUdI]

Clifton Colledge Spitz Sitton Tauscher
Buluga Lang Wells Newhouse Lang
Lang Newhouse Newhouse Lang Buluga
Barbre D-S D-S D-S Barbre

 

[FrankRizzo]

Colledge is, and will be, the starting LG, again.
Spitz will be the first OG off the bench, IF his back holds up.

I agree that TJ Lang can be a great LG, but he can be a great RT also, and T's are harder to find, especially on our roster right now. But TJ is battling an injury right now too... might be out til August following that surgery.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Speaking of the Packers OL, here's Jamon Meredith making PFT's morning one-liners:

Tuesday morning one-liners | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[PackersRS]

I agree that TJ Lang can be a great LG, but he can be a great RT also, and T's are harder to find, especially on our roster right now.

How I feel about this.

 

[olwig420]

It's funny that the longer this off season goes the more the name Giacomini keeps coming up. Now that he is healthy MM has been praising him left and right. Got to wonder how he will be healthy with pads on. He might just be the supprise on the O line.

 

[NYPacker]

It's funny that the longer this off season goes the more the name Giacomini keeps coming up. Now that he is healthy MM has been praising him left and right. Got to wonder how he will be healthy with pads on. He might just be the supprise on the O line.

I highly doubt that. He was given just as much praise last offseason after the Packers opted not to resign Tauscher. Mccarthy was very confident in saying Giocomini is going to battle for a starting role with Barbre. There was noone else left at that position to compete with. Now Giocomini has to go up against TJ Lang, Mark Tauscher and Bryan Bulaga (if he's not ready to play LT).

 

[aaronqb]

I highly doubt that. He was given just as much praise last offseason after the Packers opted not to resign Tauscher. Mccarthy was very confident in saying Giocomini is going to battle for a starting role with Barbre. There was noone else left at that position to compete with. Now Giocomini has to go up against TJ Lang, Mark Tauscher and Bryan Bulaga (if he's not ready to play LT).

I'm a big supporter of Thompson and McCarthy, but my biggest beef with the coaching staff has to do with this. For the past three years, it has been nearly impossible for us (and apparently for the players) to know where they stand and where they are trying to go with the OL. There has been way too much shifting around of players and now even with Bulaga and Newhouse, nobody knows where they will fit and how they will get there.

Right now there are something like 12 OL in the mix and it is totally up in the air who will be starting and where, who will be backing up which positions, and where they are trying to go in the next few years.

Compare the Packer line from the 1990s with where they are today. During their run in the 1990s, it was very clear who would be playing where and who the starters were. Right now, things are totally in flux. Sitton is solid at RG and looks to be a fixture there for the next 10 years. Other than that, pretty much everything is up in the air.

I sure hope the staff clears things up during training camp.

 

[NYPacker]

I'm a big supporter of Thompson and McCarthy, but my biggest beef with the coaching staff has to do with this. For the past three years, it has been nearly impossible for us (and apparently for the players) to know where they stand and where they are trying to go with the OL. There has been way too much shifting around of players and now even with Bulaga and Newhouse, nobody knows where they will fit and how they will get there.

Right now there are something like 12 OL in the mix and it is totally up in the air who will be starting and where, who will be backing up which positions, and where they are trying to go in the next few years.

Compare the Packer line from the 1990s with where they are today. During their run in the 1990s, it was very clear who would be playing where and who the starters were. Right now, things are totally in flux. Sitton is solid at RG and looks to be a fixture there for the next 10 years. Other than that, pretty much everything is up in the air.

I sure hope the staff clears things up during training camp.

Personally, it's not the fact that this coaching staff knows where each person will be that ticks me off, it's the fact that they don't know HOW to coach a good starting lineup. Sitton is by far Campen's best protege, I'll give him credit for that. But Daryn Colledge and Spitz remain the biggest uncertainties at this point. Colledge is good when he wants to be good, but an established coaching staff will mentor that player to be great year in and year out. So far with Colledge, they haven't done that. Spitz was out for an injury which I can't blame the coaching staff for, but when he was healthy he didn't live up to expectations after being a byproduct to all the line-shuffling. I have yet to see them produce a dominant heir to the Center position and most importantly the two tackle spots. Wells should be our long term center, however he wasn't developed by this coaching staff. EDS looks very promising so I have confidence in them for him. Bulaga and Lang are now what we are left with at LT and RT respectively. Idk about Bulaga yet but Lang looks like he has a bright future ahead of him, pro bowl player perhaps. If this staff screws over their development in any way, I will be the first one calling for Campen or Philbin's heads.

 

[wizard 87]

Great discussion folks..as always love the feedback ! :drinks:

 

[FrankRizzo]

Pad Level

 

[NYPacker]

Pad Level

ROFL. Somebody was bound to mention it.

 

[armand34]

someone enlighten me on the inside joke of pad level

 

[PackersRS]

someone enlighten me on the inside joke of pad level

Inside joke?

Have you ever heard or read a transcript of MM's presser? All he talks about is pad levels and fundamentals...

 

[aaronqb]

Personally, it's not the fact that this coaching staff knows where each person will be that ticks me off, it's the fact that they don't know HOW to coach a good starting lineup. Sitton is by far Campen's best protege, I'll give him credit for that. But Daryn Colledge and Spitz remain the biggest uncertainties at this point. Colledge is good when he wants to be good, but an established coaching staff will mentor that player to be great year in and year out. So far with Colledge, they haven't done that. Spitz was out for an injury which I can't blame the coaching staff for, but when he was healthy he didn't live up to expectations after being a byproduct to all the line-shuffling. I have yet to see them produce a dominant heir to the Center position and most importantly the two tackle spots. Wells should be our long term center, however he wasn't developed by this coaching staff. EDS looks very promising so I have confidence in them for him. Bulaga and Lang are now what we are left with at LT and RT respectively. Idk about Bulaga yet but Lang looks like he has a bright future ahead of him, pro bowl player perhaps. If this staff screws over their development in any way, I will be the first one calling for Campen or Philbin's heads.

I agree with you 100%. And I was calling for their heads after the Tampa game last year.

Here's one take about how to look at the battle in training camp. You don't make the team on the OL if you don't start this year or are projected to start in 2 years.

2010 starters: Clifton - Colledge/Spitz - Wells - Sitton - Tauscher
2012 starters: Bulaga - Newhouse - EDS - Sitton - Lang

So, that means:
- either Colledge or Spitz gets traded
- Giacomini and Barbre get cut (or traded)
- McDonald and/or Campbell are on the practice squad

If Tauscher is beaten out as the RT starter in camp by either Lang, Giacomini, or Bulaga, Tauscher gets cut and is replaced on the roster by one of the guys who were on the trade or cut list or by one of the free agents.

If Clifton has 2 years left in him, then Bulaga needs to play somewhere else until he is out or we are wasting a talent.

Thoughts?

 

[ivo610]

If Clifton has 2 years left in him, then Bulaga needs to play somewhere else until he is out or we are wasting a talent

Assuming it doesnt take him two years to catch up to speed with the NFL.

 

[FrankRizzo]

So, that means:
- either Colledge or Spitz gets traded
- Giacomini and Barbre get cut (or traded)
- McDonald and/or Campbell are on the practice squad

If Tauscher is beaten out as the RT starter in camp by either Lang, Giacomini, or Bulaga, Tauscher gets cut and is replaced on the roster by one of the guys who were on the trade or cut list or by one of the free agents.

If Clifton has 2 years left in him, then Bulaga needs to play somewhere else until he is out or we are wasting a talent.

Thoughts?

My thoughts are this: Nobody will beat Tauscher out at RT barring injury, especially not Bulaga because they are playing and planning on Bulaga learning and being a LT.
Barbre has no chance.
Colledge is a very underrated LG. He's not great, but he's at least average when allowed to play there all the time, and I would venture to say he's good.
I believe Lang will become a good RT in the future for us, and we have our OL set, with Spitz and EDS being extra good guys, and perhaps Marshall Newhouse. Breno will settle in as the RT backup.

 

[pluto]

Giacomini, in simple terms is a stooge. he always looks lost when he's on the field. i think the pro level has just overwhelmed him.

 

[aaronqb]

Assuming it doesnt take him two years to catch up to speed with the NFL.

If it takes him this long, then he will have been a bad pick. QBs usually take awhile to learn to play at NFL speed. OL usually get there much more quickly. In fact, I believe Joe Thomas (with the short arms) and Jake Long were Pro Bowlers in their rookie seasons. Ryan Clady got there quickly as did Ferguson (Jets).

I would like to see Bulaga be groomed for the LT position, but then to contend at RT no later than year 2 if it looks like Clifton has more than 1 year left in him. Tackles move from the right side to the left side all the time.

 

[DILLIGAFF]

It comes down to money and contracts, Colledge and Spitz are expensive and will be wanting big contracts next year.

Colledge and Spitz will be traded or cut if NewHouse, Barbre, or Breno show any kind of ability equal to Colledge or Spitz, bang for the buck thats what TT will do.

Lang has to be figured into the starting lineup, if not this year but next as a LG or RT.

Although the Packers can keep both Colledge and Spitz for quality depth and both are motivated to do well in contract years.

 

[wizard 87]

MM has answered the Bulaga question for now:

(What is your plan with Bulaga, going into the mini-camp and training camp? Are you going to keep working him at left tackle?)
We'll stay with the same approach tomorrow and next week with Bryan, yes.

No RT for him.

 

[PackersRS]

MM has answered the Bulaga question for now:


No RT for him.

He had already mentioned that, but that's for minicamps and training camp.

If I remember correctly, CM3 was placed behind Kampman at LOLB during preseason...

 

[aaronqb]

He had already mentioned that, but that's for minicamps and training camp.

If I remember correctly, CM3 was placed behind Kampman at LOLB during preseason...

You are right about CM3.

The MM quote above said Bulaga would work at LT through the mini camp. He didn't say anything about training camp or beyond. If it turns out that Bulaga can play RT as the starter right away, I would go for it.

Why not put your best players on the field? If it turns out he needs to move to the left side later due to a Clifton injury and he is best backup at LT, then move him there.

I don't believe starting him at RT (if he is better than Tauscher) would stunt his development at LT. In fact, game experience would probably be helpful.