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B.J. Coleman two years out...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tynimiller, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. tynimiller
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    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Realistically do you still see him here in Green Bay. I'll be honest I am high on the kid hopefully sticking around. I'm not saying he'll ever be a stud or #1 in the pros, but from everything I've read, video interviews I've watched and the few comments coaches and team mates say about him it's all encouraging. I do see him improving and taking steps towards bettering his play, which is something Graham simply wasn't doing.

    Unless something unforeseen occurs with us drafting a QB with a higher pick I truly think he may be our back up in a couple years (I hope VY stays a year or two more as #2)...call me crazy, but the kid seems likeable...maybe I'm just drinking the koolaid.
  2. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The coaches comments were encouraging about Harrell as well. I don't put much into it. From what I read, Coleman was up and down during camp. He made nice plays (typically on the move) followed by Favre-esque bone headed throws.

    I don't pretend to know as much about the QB mechanics as I do other positions. However, I know the type of talent that GB consistently had behind Favre and know that we haven't had that behind Rodgers since Flynn left, if that. I don't think that Coleman will be here in two years. In my world, the #3 spot is for QB tryouts. You have a solid backup at #2 and then give low-round QBs the opportunity to astound you. If they don't, keep rummaging through the bargain bins until you find somebody with pop.

    The most damning evidence against Coleman is that he couldn't seize the #2 spot from Harrell, and we just cut Harrell.
  3. tynimiller
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    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Yeah I see and agree to the whole Favre time period back ups...I mean how many starters sat behind him at some point? Hasselback, Brooks, Rodgers, Brunell, Majkowski, Detmer, McMahon, Pederson...than you also have Ingle Martin, JT Osullivan and capable Craig Nall in there. Rodgers has had Flynn and only him till now with Vince. I'm 100% fine with them picking up guys slightly past their prime or who have gotten usurped by younger talent elsewhere...
  4. FrankRizzo
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    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I don't see any good future from Coleman.
    But then again I have been wrong about QBs before. Initially, I wanted Ty Detmer not Favre.

    I also thought Brian Brohm was a great draft pick in 2008 even though I did think Rodgers was ready. I just didn't know if he'd be durable.

    I also think Colt McCoy is good, so what do I know........

    A lot of times, I think the situation is underlooked for a QB.
    Look, I saw Drew Brees play a home game in the 2005 or 6 season for the Chargers, against the Raiders. LT was the man for San Diego, but I remember thinking and saying to my buddy that night that Brees was the best player on the field.

    Then a month later he hurt his shoulder and his contract was up, and the Bolts let him go.

    Then Miami had the first chance to sign Brees as their guy, and they went with the more athletic specimen Culpepper instead.
    Saints had seconds and landed Brees.
    The rest, they say, is history.

    He's broken many records, Super Bowl MVP, on the way to the HOF now.
    Culpepper has been out of the league for awhile now and never did anything good from that moment on.
  5. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    1st Tier Backups
    2nd Tier Backups
    Flynn was 1st Tier. Harrell and Coleman are 2nd Tier.

    I'll admit that I thought McCarthy's QB system could turn these guys into first tier material. I'm not sure what derailed them but these guys haven't really progressed and are JT Osullivan material.
  6. weeds
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    weeds Cheesehead

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    Just my opinion...I think Coleman is Harrell with a stronger arm.?!?

    Still, El Guapo summed it up pretty nicely a couple of posts back. Coleman couldn't beat out Harrell and we just cut Harrell - I don't think there is a clearer analysis on this point anywhere.
  7. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    So much for the best draft pick we ever made.
  8. HardRightEdge
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    That was a bold declaration from Mr. Coleman. I've read where he wore 19 in college because he wanted to be 1 better than Peyton Manning. And how about that weird thing where he was working out in Hattiesburg with the Great Interceptee for a couple of months?

    He seems a bit hyperactive, "jumpy" might be the word, and I get the impression he's quite the chatterbox.

    He's got an NFL arm, something Harrell never developed, has shown some flashes, but is inconsistent...nice bullets in tight spots intermixed with the air mail.

    I liked the pick after seeing him in the East West Shrine game, and actually had us picking him in the 5th. - 7th. round. It's a bit hard to stand by that now. Unless a light goes on and he finds a groove in this last preseason game, he'll probably end up on PS again, with one more camp to prove up, while we bring in another rookie or otherwise young guy looking for work.
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2013
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  9. Shawnsta3
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    I was super pumped when we made this pick, because I knew how big his arm was, and that McCarthy just needed to coach up his accuracy and smarts. It hasn't quite gone as planned yet as he is still pretty erratic, but his big arm is still there and he's a gamer and can make plays despite his shortcomings as we witnessed vs. St. Louis.

    I like the idea of him becoming a backup candidate in a year or two and basically handling the same way as they did with Flynn and Harrell.
  10. tynimiller
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    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    I agree...I also understand though next year who knows who we pick up late or off the FA lists. Coleman though like others have stated has the arm, the attitude to be successful. It's if he gets smart enough at the craft of being a QB in the league. Worst case we took a guy late that had an NFL ready arm and he didn't pan out...best case scenario is something inside him clicks next season knowing it's his last chance and we get great years of back up service or trade bait. Either way I still liked the pick up, and wouldn't be upset if we continue to do similar in the coming years.
  11. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I would have thought that his progression would have been accelerated being that he can learn and observe from the best QB in the NFL. The better the teacher, the better the student normally.
  12. tynimiller
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    tynimiller Cheesehead

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    Not sure, I mean yeah there has been Rodgers behind Favre, Young behind Montana and Brady behind Bledsoe...however I could be wrong but who behind Marino was great, Elway, Brees, Manning, Warner just to name a few whom I feel have not taught well...I'm probably missing one of them that did though.
  13. El Guapo
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    True, although I'm not sure about who the teacher really is in Green Bay. Rodgers is clearly the mentor for the backups. I don't know how much the starting QB on any team really teaches the younger guys. Then we have the "Mike McCarthy QB School" or so we've been told. Then there is QB coach Ben McAdoo, who has never been anything but a offensive line and tight ends coach. He also never played football, let alone quarterback. McCarthy has mostly been an offensive coordinator prior to GB, with his only QB experience coming at the very beginning as QB coach at Pittsburgh for 3 years. While he seems to be great at creating high quality offenses, he also does not have much specific QB experience.

    Going back a bit, Philbin didn't have much of a QB background either. He was mostly an offensive line coach before McCarthy made him offensive coordinator and assistant head coach. He seemed to be involved a lot in the preparation process, but I'm not sure how much he had to do with the quarterbacks.

    Rodgers showed lots of potential in college, hence the belief that either he or Alex Smith would be the first pick in the draft. He's clearly developed into an elite QB. Flynn won the national championship at LSU so while coming from a limited offense, was still a good QB.

    My point in all of this is that we may not have much a QB development system in Green Bay, despite the moniker of the McCarthy QB school. We may have just lucked out with two quarterbacks who have excelled more on their own. The guys who really needed the help such as Harrell and Coleman may not have gotten the extra development help that they needed because we have offensive line and tight ends coaches teaching them how to improve their game.
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  14. Oshkoshpackfan
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    What I am basically saying is: I know the QB's do work together. So, with that, I would have expected BJ to see more than just QB skills, but study habits and film watching. Now, me personally, if I was the back up to #12, I would be his shadow. I would probably use the same damn deodarant he does...lol
    We could always have Jon Gruden come in and do his version on a QB school on these young guys.
  15. HyponGrey
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    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Spider 2 GB Potato, hut hut!
  16. HardRightEdge
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    What makes you think he hasn't been doing these things? Or at least as much as Rodgers cares to have him around. Coleman strikes me as "a little goes a long way" kind of guy.

    Besides, at least 1/2 of what needs to be learned cannot be articulated...by anybody.
  17. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    Hasn't QB school been pretty much gutted by the CBA? IIRC it was about a month long in March or so. Under the CBA, that is part of the players down time with basically no team training.
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  18. El Guapo
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    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I thought they were still working it during OTAs. I could easily be wrong. The new CBA is still a dark grey cloud obscuring what I used to know about the NFL
  19. Poppa San
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    Poppa San Pray daily and take the plunge for Eli Staff Member Moderator

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    QB school was in addition to the OTA's which is probably why it isn't anymore. As part of OTA doesn't leave the same amount of time for individual analysis and practice.

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