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49ers roster

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by NOMOFO, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Well, Flacco´s deal averages $20.1 million over six seasons and included $30 million in fully guaranteed money. Compare that to Kaepernick´s numbers ($18.1 million average, $13 million fully guaranteed) and there´s a significant gap between the two contracts.

    In addition the Niners could release him without major ramifications on their cap, the Ravens can´t do that with Flacco.
  2. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    9ers swindled kaep
  3. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Don´t get me wrong, I don´t think Kaepernick deserves a deal like that, but it´s not as bad as the total amounts may sound. The Niners could release him at any point during the deal.
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  4. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yeah, the fact the guarantees in years 2-4 are for injury only makes a huge difference. And it makes a lot of sense.

    Kaepernick has a world of talent and potential, as yet not fully realized. In fact, to my eye, he regressed last season as a pocket passer which presents a major risk. The 49ers would obviously like him to be a Pro Bowl caliber QB, they think he can be an elite QB, but the deal must reflect that he isn't one yet.

    So, in his 4th. year and 3rd. year as a starter, he's reached the point where the rubber meets the road. If he makes the move toward eliteness in 2014, a commensurate contract is in place. If he doesn't, there are options...like a renegotiation or a change of direction. They did a quick pivot away from Smith; this deal would allow them do it again if the situation warrants.

    On the flip side, if Kaepernick blows the top off the league in 2014, you can bet your bottom dollar he'll be going back to SF to renegotiate this deal to convert some of those future dollars to guaranteed money, which would be appropriate.
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  5. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Further, it is often overlooked how a large signing bonus that creates big mounds of dead cap money in subsequent years has the practical affect of increasing the guarantee beyond the contracted amount. That's not the case here, commensurate with the fact Kaepernick is not a franchise QB...yet.
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2014
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  6. AFan77
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    AFan77 Cheesehead

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    Not only that, but the contract also stipulates that Kaep must purchase a 20 million dollar insurance policy, out of pocket, to be paid to the niners in the event of a career ending injury. Also, there is a de-escalator that takes two million dollars away each year until he plays 80% of the snaps and 1. goes to the Super bowl, or 2. is named first or second team All Pro (a tougher endeavor with the Qbs in this league (including yours).

    So basically, the niners signed Kaep to a 7 year, 18 million per year deal (the Cutler, Romo level), with a lot of protection on the club's side. I'm kind of surprised Kaep agreed to this.
  7. AFan77
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    AFan77 Cheesehead

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    I think the plan is to let most of those guys walk. The niners have developed a fair amount of young talent behind these guys, and they definitely have no qualms about letting talent walk out the door if they don't agree to "their price."

    Crabtree - will want top dollar, and I doubt the niners will pay it. They have Boldin for the next two seasons (old I know), and they basically got a very cheap Stevie Johnson for a 7th round pick ( the Bills are on the hook for his guaranteed money on his contract). After that, Patton and Ellington will have to step up.

    A. Smith - just impossible to replace this guy. The niners have good depth in the pass rusher department (Lemonier was the highest rated PR among the 2013 rookie class). Still he doesn't hold a candle to A Smith. Unfortunately, Smith is a bad drunk. I would rather see him suspended for the season if that means he can get his head right, but I have my doubts.

    Iupati - Let him walk. Looney has developed behind him, Brandon Thomas should be healthy next year, and J Martin will get a lot of looks at LG

    Gore - Unfortunately, this will be the last year with Gore. Hyde, Lattimore, and Hunter will duke it out for carries.

    V. Davis - no reason to touch his contract for the next two years. Then they will probably resign him, but who knows what he will look like at that age. I'm not really worried about this one.

    A. Boone - Not often that you take a natural 6'8" OT and move him to guard where he excels. The niners will want to resign him because of his versatility (he was our backup at LT/RT the last couple of years) but he will probably want to start as a OT on some other team. Looney, Thomas, J Martin, and the OC/ OG players Kilgore and M Martin will compete for the guard positions. The niners have a very deep Oline.

    R. McDonald - If the niners resign him, it won't be to an expensive contract. They have let so many Dlinemen go, only to have the next 5th round draftee come in and play well. Tomsula is far and away the best position coach the niners have. Plus they have guys like Carradine (probably replaces J Smith in 2015), TJE, Dobbs, and the Brit Okoye competing for this spot, along with whoever else they draft.

    G. Dorsey - let him walk. Dorsey played great last year, but Ian Williams was the starter who went down in week 2.
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  8. soho9erfan
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    soho9erfan Cheesehead

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  9. soho9erfan
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    soho9erfan Cheesehead

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    It wasn't Flacco money. You were wrong. Should have waited for the exact numbers to come in. I don't blame you. Everyone shared their immediate reactions, but most NFL fans know that these initial figures are bloated and aren't the full story..

    Again, what I predicted back in January was correct. I was actually right on the dot. So, please, I'd appreciate some recognition for my great football mind.
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  10. soho9erfan
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    soho9erfan Cheesehead

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    49ers have a different team than the Packers. If Kap was in a pass happy offense, he'd put up exorbitant numbers.

    Kap isn't AR. No one in their right mind would even start making a comparison. But Kap only signed Cutler money, and he freed up space for the likes of Crabtree to get extended.

    I'm super pumped about this offseason.

    First, our great draft (I thought you guys did phenomenal in the draft as well)

    Second, Stevie Johnson trade

    Third, signing Kap to a great, team-friendly deal
  11. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Ummmmm

    Excuse me? But did I once say you were wrong? All I asked was if it was crippling or not..

    Nice to know Niner fans still like our forum

    I know why your confused...I said, the Niner fan that said he wouldnt get Flacco money--

    I said it that way to make sure others knew what Niner fan I was referring to, as I didnt know your name when I was posting that sentence..
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2014
  12. soho9erfan
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    soho9erfan Cheesehead

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    For sure, I misread your post then.

    In regards to whether it was crippling, it depends how you look at it.

    Obviously the 49ers are in worse shape financially then they have been the past couple of seasons. The time when we only had to dedicate $1,000,000 a year to the QB position is over.

    But, in comparison to the other deals around the league, I think the 49ers got a steal.

    People on here scoffed at my posts back in January in this thread when I insisted the 49ers would get a team-friendly deal that would allow them to keep their star players. By all accounts, this is what transpired.

    The 49ers might not be able to keep Crabtree or Mike Iupati when it is all said and done, but there is no denying the fact that the 49ers will have relatively no salary cap problems down the road. Again, people on here were predicting a catastrophe in the Bay Area once some of our teams best players' contracts start to expire, but that doesn't at all seem the case.

    So, no, this contract does not cripple the 49ers. It ensured our dominance in the NFL for the next 6-7 seasons
  13. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You rather have Crab, or Iupati if it came down to one or the other?

    I would want Iupati...His spot helps the running and passing game, along with protecting the q.b
  14. soho9erfan
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    soho9erfan Cheesehead

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    Honestly, I would rather have Crabtree.

    Our OLine has Staley, Anthony Davis, and a center (either Kilgore or rookie Marcus Martin), locked up long term.

    I think we can resign Boone to a more cost-efficient deal than Iupati, which makes him expendable. We also drafted that OT from Clemson who tore his ACL while working our for the Saints (I'm forgetting his name). He was supposedly a 2nd round talent pre-injury and is capable of playing Guard. That's why I'd prefer Crabtree and Boone extension over Iupati.

    That, and Crabtree has an amazing rapport with Kaepernick. Outside of Boldin, who will retire after next season, and Stevie Johnson, who really only has 3 years left in his contract, the 49ers have unproven talent at the WR position.

    So signing Crabtree should be paramount to an OLine like Iupait where we already have other Pro Bowls to hold the line for Kap
  15. Bensalama21
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    Bensalama21 Ben

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    Why limit it to football! The sky is the limit!!
  16. Luca
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    Luca Cheesehead

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    The Ravens can cut Flacco after three years (after 2015) and save a lot of money (18M, 21M, 20M). So if they cut Flacco after 2015 they save 59 million. The contracts are therefore pretty similar. The difference is that 49'ers might cut Kaepernick after year 1 or year 2 as well, which won't happen.
  17. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Ravens can cut Flacco whenever they want as well, but if they do it after the 2015 season for example the move would result in more than $25 million dead money counting against the cap. So realistically, there´s no way they can release Flacco before the 2018 season.
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  18. Luca
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    Luca Cheesehead

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    You are right about the dead money. That is because the Ravens pushed a lot of money in the future. The cap savings would be similar though.

    If the Ravens want to cut Flacco, they might do so with a post-June 1st designation.
  19. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Ravens aren´t able to save any relevant cap space by releasing Flacco until the 2017 season, the move would still result in $15 million dead money though. The Niners could release Kaepernick after next season and already save more than $7 million in cap space.

    With the dead money included in Flacco´s deal I don´t see the Ravens releasing him at any point. They will try to restructure his contract after the 2015 season, the problem for them is though that Flacco has all the leverage in the negotiations. IMO the Flacco deal was one of the worst in NFL history.

    That won´t be possible either as his base salary will become fully guaranteed around the start of each league year. In addition spreading out the dead money cap hit over two seasons doesn´t make a huge difference either.
  20. Luca
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    You are probably right that. Didn't think about that.

    The Ravens pushed a shitload of money in the future. In my opinion that is never a smart thing to do, but that doesn't mean they can't cut him. They will have to pay the signing bonus anyway. That is sunk money, and irrelevant for the discussion. If they cut him though, they won't have to pay and cap his base salary, which would save 18, 21 and 20 million respectively. So if they cut him in for example 2016 they take a huge hit for the signing bonus in 2016, but save a lot on the base salaries of 2016, 2017 and 2018. Therefore they save a lot of money in 2017 and 2018.
  21. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    No matter how you look at it, the Ravens won´t cut Flacco at any point during the deal because of the dead money the move would result in. I fully expect them to restructure his contract after the 2015 season as his cap hit would rise to over $28 million for 2016 which would make it even more difficult for them to cut him.

    Bottom line is that the Niners signed Kaepernick to a very team friendly contract while the Flacco deal was a horrible one for the Ravens.
  22. Pack-12
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    Pack-12 Cheesehead

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    Ok but is it smart to pay your QB an 18m average if you aren't running a pass oriented offense? They may have gotten a team friendly contract out of him but it's not really a great deal for them unless they actually start using him more.
  23. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Niners q/b should be happy as a pig in a pile of poop right now..... paying huge cash to a QB that averaged less than 200 passing yards per game ...... that would have been like us paying James starks adrian peterson money.
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  24. captainWIMM
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    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    You have to realize that the Niners play a different style of offense. Kaepernick ranked 8th in the league in yards per attempt last year and would have led that statistic in 2012 if he had enough attempts over the entire season. In addition he´s a threat running the football having posted the two best rushing performances by a QB in playoff history.

    I agree that he would be overpaid if he doesn´t improve his passing stats over the course of the contract, but he´s not as bad as you want to make him look like either.
  25. Oshkoshpackfan
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    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    he really only exposed us, and a capers scheme that refused to change and adjust. Otherwise it was the 49ers defense that saved their bacon in many games. Kap is a gimmick that has been exposed and people are now countering it......only a matter of time before he gets smoke checked like RGIII did.... then he will be forced to actually try to play QB.
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