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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by DakotaT, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. DakotaT
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    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    It seems we have 3 safeties who all seem to need playing time. Please post you starting safeties and why.

    Aaron Rouse - FS - he's a natural ball hawk and anticipates (sees plays) very well. Being very long also helps him in passing lanes.

    Nick Collins - SS - has been playing out of position from day one in GB. He is extremely good at the line of scrimmage.

    Sorry Bigby fans - his big hits don't make up for lapses in coverage. If there were any good quarterbacks in our division, this weakness would really be exposed.
  2. millertime
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    millertime Cheesehead

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    We have three good safeties, with different skill sets.

    Collins = Solid

    I can barely remember any plays last year (besides the Bears game) where Collins was beaten badly. His dropped interceptions make me pull my hair out, because if he caught half the balls that hit his hands, he would have had close to 10 picks last season.

    Bigby = Intimidation

    Bigby can lay the wood, but isn't the brightest guy out on the field. His "rookie" year was promising, but one blown play can cost us a game. Bigby is one of the emotional leaders of the D, so another one of his important attributes is that Atari raises the play of the guys on the field with him. He also iced like 3-4 games last year with 4th quarter interceptions.

    Rouse = Potential Playmaker

    Rouse is a beast safety at 6'4. He's fast, can jump, and can make big hits when necessary. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Rouse got an INT in every game he started last year.

    My Strategy to get the best players on the field.

    Nickel Package: Let Rouse use his size to play some nickel linebacker (ala Ronnie Lott late in his career)

    Dime Package: Let Collins play some dime, while Rouse and Bigby man the safety spots. GB did this late last season and had success.

    Goaline - Rouse and Bigby the big hitters

    Obvious Passing Downs - Rouse and Collins, the best coverage guys.

    GB has a lot of talent on defense and some good players won't be starting, like one of these three safeties, Poppinga or Chillar, KGB, Patrick Lee and Harrell. It's up to Bob Sanders to carve out niches for our guys to use each players strength to help out our D.

    The Pack need to find creative ways to get all three guys on the football field to get the biggest impact from the talent at the position.
  3. spardo62
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    spardo62 Cheesehead

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    I agree, Rouse has the best upside of the 3 and will make an impact starting this year. The other 2 both have holes in their games, but if I had to put money on it I would go with Collins. He is smart and rarely out of position, he plays the ball fairly well. Bigby is more physical and aggressive, but he will not always play smart and is bad at playing/adjusting to the ball.
  4. packerfan1245
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    packerfan1245 Cheesehead

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    I agree Bibgy brings Intimidation. Hell, some players must be afraid of him ya think?
  5. Zombieslayer
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    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Yes. Seattle's receivers were almost were literally scared to get the ball thrown to them because of Bigby. Plus, I like how he got 5 INTs last year. INTs all add up.

    Rouse gets INTs in the limited time he's there. That's a huge reason I want him getting more playing time.

    Collins is solid, but he's not getting the INTs. The opposing QB will throw the ball right at him and it will go right out of his hands. That makes my blood pressure go up higher. I don't like that. But he's a good tackler and plays the position well otherwise.
  6. Greg C.
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    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Over the course of three years, Collins has proven himself to be completely and utterly average. Average does not win championships.

    Rouse and Bigby are big-play guys. Big-play guys win championships.

    Bigby's lapses in coverage almost all occurred in the middle part of the season. He was raw and teams were testing him. He learned from his mistakes and played very well in the playoffs.

    If Collins makes a jump in training camp and secures his starting spot, that would be great. But I think Rouse and Bigby would be our best combo, with Rouse at FS and Bigby at SS.
  7. Since69
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    Since69 Cheesehead

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    It's a tough call. From a pure talent standpoint, I like Rouse at FS and Bigby at SS, but Collins is a smart player and I believed MM has referred to him as the leader of the secondary.

    Ideally, I suppose the best fit would be Collins/Rouse on passing downs and Collins/Bigby on run downs.
  8. Packnic
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    Packnic Cheesehead

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    we are undefeated with Rouse starting. including a 34-0 beat down of the Vikings. thats all i'm saying.
  9. Zombieslayer
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    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    And that's how it shall be by Week 9.

    Collins though is a very capable backup. We keep him long-term. You can never have too much quality depth, as I learned from TT (now that I am myself a GM - it says so under my name).
  10. cheesey
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    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Man......there are so many great points in this thread. If we could put them all together into one guy, he'd be unstopable.
    If Collins could just catch the ball, he would be my pick. He could have made lots of big plays if he could learn to do so. I guess thats why he's on D, and not O.
  11. Zombieslayer
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    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    He has frustrated me big time. The opposing QB would throw the ball right in his hands and it would go right through them.

    INTs stop drives. The drive is done. It becomes our ball. I'd take an INT over a sack or a big hit. I'm sure our coaches think the same thing and that's why I think Rouse will take over Collins' position.
  12. warhawk
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    warhawk Cheesehead

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    What I see here and on other threads is the theme that there is very legitimate and intense competition at many positions and that the number of positions where this is happening seems to grow each year.

    Hell, a few years ago we were just hoping for bodies that could backup what amounted to an average starter.

    All of a sudden there was competition for spots on the "D" line, the nickle and dime spots, wide receiver got crowded, guard is getting interesting, who knows who could start here at safety. Hell, even TE is going to be interesting to watch and I dare say by the time it's over our running back position will be GREATLY contested after Grant.

    Building from within creates a tremendous amount of competitive spirit. There's no telling who could win some of these starting positions and key backup roles before it's over.

    I think too that MM is a perfect coach for this environment because he's fair, black and white with what he expects, and, plays no favorites. I believe we may get more out of this time of year from the players than other teams which also leads to the success we are seeing during the regular season.
  13. djcubez
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    djcubez Cheesehead

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    Love this post. Echoes a lot of my sentiments as well.
  14. Zombieslayer
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    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Agreed.

    Good post, Warhawk.
  15. millertime
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    millertime Cheesehead

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    Don't forget about the competition at LB and punter too!
  16. Packnic
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    well really, is there any position on the team besides maybe QB that isn't super competive right now?
  17. PackOne
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    PackOne Cheesehead

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    Mason is happy.
  18. Zombieslayer
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    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    I'm sure there are a few folks on this board who think the QB position isn't even a lock. I'm neither agreeing nor dismissing that thought, I'm just bringing it up (because it's off-season and this board has been really slow).
  19. PackFanWithTwins
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    PackFanWithTwins Cheesehead

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    RT. Tauscher is a god.
  20. porky88
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    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Rouse at FS and Bigby at SS

    Bigby was a first year starter last year and I think a lot of people tend to forget about that. He's showed tremendous promise as the year went on. You can argue he lit the "spark" for the defense in the playoffs against Seattle.

    He also has better range than Collins. He wasn't bad early on either. I think through the first four games he had an INT and 2 or 3 forced fumbles. He was awful in the middle of the year though.

    Most people know I'm a fan of Aaron Rouse. I think he can really be a playmaker in the NFL.

    I have nothing against Nick Collins but I think he's going to be the odd man out. In the end I think the Packers have 3 solid safeties and it's gone from being one of the softest positions on the Packers roster to one full of depth in my opinion.
  21. Zombieslayer
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    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    True.

    All 3 of them are young and have a lot of upside. They probably all have still several years before they even reach their peaks.

    I'm actually excited about our Safety positions this year. We'll see more production in '08 than '07.
  22. Tiger
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    Tiger Cheesehead

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    the coaches seem pretty high on Collins, i dont think he'll be replaced anytime soon.
  23. TheEngineer
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    TheEngineer Cheesehead

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    Is Bigby really that much of a big hitter? From my recollections, he got that reputation during the last couple of games of the season.

    Maybe he just has better shoes in the snow?
  24. tromadz
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    tromadz Cheesehead

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    He was hitting big all year.

    This is how it went with Atari Bigby:

    -Early season - fan favorite, big hits.

    -Middle season - some lapse in play, fans not pleased.

    -Late season\post season - disgusting hits and consistent play. Fans pleased. Seahawks players not pleased.

    Bigby had more INTs in 07 than Collins has had his entire career. He wraps up and isn't too horrible in coverage, and THAT should only improve(see: Poppinga, Brady). Bigby has the SS position locked down. It's up to Rouse to dethrone Collins, and to be honest, I don't think it will take much. You have to make plays when you're in position. Collins is AWESOME at being where he's supposed to, but too many missed tackles and missed interceptions will be the end of him.
  25. IronMan
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    IronMan Cheesehead

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    This post will bring Cal2GreenBay out of hiding.

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