WR position

[chibiabos]

From what was a desperate situation after the departure of Walker, seems now to be a position gaining strength. Once Brett starts throwing in training camp I think we'll see distinct improvements over last years problems. Also the "O" line appears to be shaping up as well. The loss of Barry may actually become a blessing in disguise because I doubt he was a serious replacement at guard. Any thoughts from the experts here? :wink:

 

[pyledriver80]

Well, I really don't consider it a position of strength. I think we have Driver and then a bunch of decent recievers. Gardner/Boerigchter/Fergie are average no. 2 guys but nothing to special. Jennings/Rodgers/Martin/Lucas,etc are all guys that could step up this year but every tem in the NFL has guys that COULD step up.


I actually think that if we start using Franks/Lee more that this will greatly help the WR's out and some of the younger guys could make some plays.


As far as the O-Line goes I still feel its a weak spot on this team and moreso than others on this board. MM and Jags can say the line is coming along great but what else would they say? Colledge and Coston,assuming they start, may develop in time but I think that this year is going to be rough for them. It takes time to develop and adjust to the speed and power of the NFL. If these guys were solid with thier techniques it would be ok but from what I have read Colledge got by against WAC competition by using his speed and power solely. That will not work in the NFL and all the coaching in the world will not change it before the season starts. Let him get put on his *** a few times then he will realize it.

I am one of the very few that thinks Colledge will be replaced mid-season. Honestly I think Tony Moll is the most likely rookie lineman to help this team this year. He just has better technique coming in. Some people will say its impossible that a 6th round guy is more likely to help than a 2nd but time will tell I guess.

 

[thetombradyhater]

yeah our WR's aren't a position of strength i see Driver as a solid #1 and Boerichter, Fergy, Garnder, and Jennings as solid to good #3's or #4's.

 

[all about da packers]

From what was a desperate situation after the departure of Walker, seems now to be a position gaining strength. Once Brett starts throwing in training camp I think we'll see distinct improvements over last years problems. Also the "O" line appears to be shaping up as well. The loss of Barry may actually become a blessing in disguise because I doubt he was a serious replacement at guard. Any thoughts from the experts here? :wink:

Our WR's are stronger in depth, there is no doubt about that. But I wouldn't say we are gaining strength. Driver is the #1, but after that it's a toss up. The Packers NEED someone, anyone, to step up into that #2 spot and make it their own. That hasn't happened so far. Therefore we still have the same essential problem, a #1 WR without any distinct #2 to help take the pressure and coverage away from our #1 by being a good target for Brett.

As Pyle said, Franks/Lee getting involved in the passing attack will help ease the loss of Walker. However, I believe the Packers need to involve their RB's and FB's into the passing attack more aggresivly if they hope to not feel the loss of Walker like last year. It is going to be a GROUP EFFORT, meaning the #2 WR along with TEs/RBs/FBs have to work together to take away the impact of loosing Walker.

A quick breakdown:
Driver: #1 WR, what else can you say about this guy that hasn't already been said?

Fergueson: He has the skills and tools to be the #2 guy, heck I'd say even the #1 WR. But the problem lies in mental toughness. That hit from Darius shook him up worse than he let on, and it is questionable whether he can fully recover from that. Add to that the fact that Sherman's coaching staff really mismanaged this guy; they had him on all the ST, and then expected him to contribute on O. This caused him to be banged up alot, and really stunted his development. Ferggy has talent, no doubt about that. But in the end it just comes down to how strong he is mentally. MM and his staff love Ferggy, so he isn't going anywhere, and from what I gather the #2 WR job is his to loose.

Gardner: He has the skills, tools, and height to be effective in this offense. Out of all the WR's on the roster, I say he embodies the ideal WR that MM is looking for in terms of size, speed, and route running ability. The problem is that he is lazy. That has cost him numerous times before, and is doing so again. He hasn't come to camp so far, and he NEEDS the reps to get to know the system. His lack of effort is not impressing the coaching staff right now, and don't be surprised to see him start out as #4 WR and EARN his way up. But if he ever gets his mind straight, he is a DANGEROUS WR, one that would do amazing things opposite of Driver.

Boerigter: The wildcard in all of this. He has everything to become a great WR, but time is not in his favour. He has gotten off to a great start at camp, and has impressed the coaches. He can run precise routes, but above all else has blazing speed. He has an outside shot at #2, but the way things are shaping up right now, he will be starting at #3 WR (Gardner has dropped the ball big time). Don't be shocked to see him have a solid season. I really like him, because of the fact he won't take anything forgranted and work hard each and everyday he is out there.

Jennings: #5 WR, nothing more. People expect him to do what Walker did. He won't come close this year. This is a ROOKIE, he didn't even play against the top competition at NCAA. You can't reasonablly expect him to come in and tear it up against the best competition in the world at the NFL level. He has shown he can run routes, and catch the ball. That is only a start. He is expected to do those without a problem. The NFL speed will engulf him when they put on the pads. He will be a KR/PR, who will hopefully learn throughout the year and be ready to challenge for starting spot in a couple of years time.

As for O-Line, I'll keep it short.

The O-line needs to gel together, and that will only happen in real game situations. Coston and Colledge are rookies, and they will struggle. The question is how long will the staff presist with them. As Pyle said, I wouldn't be surprised if they benched them in order to get two more ready players out there. This is Brett's last year, and you can be sure MM and TT aren't going to spend it playing rookies to develop them for the future. That is why Barry was so useful. He could have provided depth at G, and at T if, God forbid, we have injuries. The line NEEDS a veteran player or 2 as insurance, because right now that is the most important area on the team.

Pyle it's interesting you think Colledge will be benched. I can see where you are coming from. Any ideas on who they would replace Colledge/Coston with? IMO I think we are going to go pick up a FA, because Whitt and Klemm aren't going to cut it.

 

[porky88]

Are WR's are better than they were last year. We didn't have Walker last year and we wont' have him this year.

How is it better. We don't have Driver, Ferguson, and Chatman. Instead we have Driver, Ferguson, Gardner, Boerigter, and Jennings.

Last year I honestly thought the 2nd best receiver on the team was Donald Lee due to the injuries to Franks and Walker. That's not the case this year. We're healthy and we have plenty of depth.

 

[tromadz]

i like our depth. I agree with pyle that after driver everyone else is just pretty much decent.

but guys could easily step up.

jennings could step up and be a big time guy.
boreigter could get a chance to prove himself.
gardner could be the guy people thought he would be.

OR they could just all be decent and thats it.

But even with THAT scenario...it is better than last year.

There are reasons to be positive.

 

[tromadz]

no, Im saying they could be average...or above average.

you seem familiar, do i know you?

 

[pyledriver80]

I guess Klemm or Whit could be given a chance but I agree AADP that they just don't fit. Moll is another option and probably has better technique coming in. There is just not much available in FA. I think Coston may actually pan out after some growing pains but I just don't see Colledge coming in this year and being effective.


I don't know but its definitely the biggest question mark on this team

 

[chibiabos]

Some good posts here and appreciate the thoughtful answers. As for the "O" line; yeah they are a loose bunch of young guys but, I see some great potential for development. Not to forget Spitz either. Also the competition for both playing time as well as Practice squad time will be very intense at WR, as I see it. Number of WR speedsters have not been mentioned and I'm well aware that speed alone does not make for a good receiver but, certainly greater speed can really open up some advantages the Pack has not had for awhile. Anyway, I'm much more positive for the coming season then I was last year at this time. As most of you noted; time will tell and hopefully spring a few good surprises on the Pack fan base. Thanks for all the input!

 

[tromadz]

well I hate klemm, and I think he is TTs biggest mistake....but he is a natural TACKLE...not GUARD, so hopefully he could be a good backup tackle. I dunno.

Whitticker proved last year he can play. He didn't play great(by any means), but he played hard, and wasn't the worst player on the o-line.

 

[pyledriver80]

The problem with Whit is I doubt he is going to be able to do what GB is going to ask of him. Klemm is probably slightly more mobile but not much. If Colledge or Coston struggles we are in big trouble because we do not have the depth at the guard position......Hell, screw depth, we probably don't have to capable startes to begin with.

 

[tromadz]

i dont understand why you have no faith in those guys. All reports are colledge is money, and Coston has been a dark horse candidate for RG for a while.

Could they both fail? Sure. But what we've heard, especially about about Colledge(and not just from packers.com with their lies! damn their lies!) is pretty good.

The biggest question mark is RG, and with Coston,Whitticker, and Spitz....im sure 1 of those guys should be able to do at least an "Average" job at the position. I am hoping someone comes out and is "Above Average" but there is no doubt in my mind at LEAST 1 of the RG boys will be "Average" and if it is a young player, which all 3 are, that is a start, because they can only improve.

 

[pyledriver80]

What have you heard about Colledge that has you so confident?

Coaches saying he coming along well???? They say that about every player!

I have addressed my concern over Colledge several times. The knock on this guy is poor technique which will be described below

Rookie+Poor Technique+NFL competition = lots of time on your backside!


Couple that with inexperience on the other side and your O-line will resemble a train wreck.


Hell, give the guy a chance, I agree, but where do we go if it does not work? We have question marks backed up by question marks,backed up by question marks

 

[tromadz]

not coaches testimony!

well, yeah everyones a question mark if they're not a proven veteran....but doesnt every player start off as a question mark, and then you gauge them as their career moves on. well the rookies careers are like what...2 months in? and some things are good on some, and some are bad...not having faith because theyre unproven is...meh...something im not interested in.

I'd rather have unproven than proven to be ******(klemm).

(oh and i was talking about havel and cliff about colledge and whatnot)

 

[billv]

Scout.com describes Cooledge as a lineman with "great intelligence" and "a polished lineman." He "makes outstanding use of blocking angles and body positioning."

That doesn't sound like a guy who has poor technique to me.

 

[tromadz]

and i havent heard any reports of his 'sloppy technique' by ANYONE(packersnews,jsonline,etc).

 

[Packersfan43084]

yeah i agree with you Trom, you gotta have some optimism in the o-line. Pyle, you mention Colledge might be benched during the season in favor of possibly Tony Moll. You've got to be kidding me dude. The guy was originally a TE and converted to tackle his junior year I believe. No way is he anywhere near starting calibers. From what i've read, he is a long term project that was a reach in the 5th round.

 

[pyledriver80]

I never said he would be replaced by Moll I just said he could be replaced and Moll is an option.

Let's see Daryn played at Boise St. who throws the ball all the time. He is not a polished run blocker by any means. He is not real strong and may have been able to get away with it in the WAC but not in the NFL. Since you guys seeme to be blind here you go

Pro Football Weekly
Lacks ideal height and arm length for the OT position. Can get beat inside vs. counter moves. Really struggled vs. Georgia and gave up too much pressure when he faced top competition. Hands are not very quick. Can do a better job anchoring in pass protection and bending at the knees. Does not have a big frame to support much more weight. Came off as a selfpromoting phony in team interviews and rubbed some scouts the wrong way. Craves attention, which is not a good trait for an offensive lineman.

Pack.com
Lacks ideal size for an NFL offensive tackle. Doesnt have great strength and can be bull-rushed.

DraftAlmanac.com
Another area of improvement for Colledge comes in the form of his footwork and his sometimes narrow base. He tends to get a bit sloppy at times and can be caught off balance and pushed backwards. He needs to eliminate this weakness from his game or else opposing defenders will use this to their advantage.

Sportspool.com
Daryn Colledge is a big man who needs to get even bigger to make an impact in the NFL Daryn has not performed well as a run blocker and needs to show improvement in this area. At times Daryn Colledge struggles with massive defenders and can get pushed back as he doesn’t have the weight needed. Even though he has a lot of experience he is still a developing player who needs to polish his game. Colledge needs to work on the techniques of the guard position as he doesn't always play with proper leverage and knee bend. Scouts worry that even though he has good numbers he has not played against enough elite competition to project how he might perform at the next level.


Colledge needs to work on getting out of his stance quicker against speed rushers, he moves his feet sloppily and uses poor technique. He needs to move more laterally to get in front of outside pass rushers.


Espninsider
He lacks ideal bulk and lower body strength. He also needs to play with more consistent leverage in order to anchor versus powerful bull rushers in the NFL.


NFL.com
Colledge is a "Tweener." He is shorter and lighter than ideal for a tackle, but has the feet and athleticism that are ideal to protect the corner from speed rushers. His size is perfect for a guard, but he blocks up high and lacks the playing strength to handle defensive tackles. He has very bad technique (footwork, blocking position and hand use) and it causes his production to be much worse than his talent level.




Should I stop now or would you like to accept it as the truth?

 

[tromadz]

well most(if not all) of those are talking about Daryn Colledge the Offensive Tackle...

The Packers are working with Daryn Colledge, the Left Guard, and as I said, according to reports...is doing very well.

 

[Zero2Cool]

well most(if not all) of those are talking about Daryn Colledge the Offensive Tackle...

The Packers are working with Daryn Colledge, the Left Guard, and as I said, according to reports...is doing very well.

What reports? He provided us with some, wheres yours?

 

[tromadz]

packersnews.com

jsonline.com

kissmyblackass,zero.com

 

[Zero2Cool]

packersnews.com

jsonline.com

kissmyblackass,zero.com

boo booo BOOO boooBOOO

No quotes? No segments from articles?

I sway towards the other who actually provided sources to back up his statements.

 

[tromadz]

ive probably posted all the things where christl and havel, and others say things on the team(colledge included, cuz theres people watching the o-line, for obvious reasons)

lol, whatever.

 

[Zero2Cool]

ive probably posted all the things where christl and havel, and others say things on the team(colledge included, cuz theres people watching the o-line, for obvious reasons)

lol, whatever.

lol

 

[pyledriver80]

Yeah, lol...... Whatever you want to believe