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Why this is a Super Bowl caliber team

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by adambr2, Oct 11, 2016.

  1. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    After a quarter of the season, from what I've seen so far, this roster is absolutely Super Bowl caliber. That doesn't mean they'll get there, doesn't mean they won't, but IMO I feel better about where this team is at than I have in a long time.

    You can tell when a team is gimmicky and one dimensional, and you can tell when a team has all the pieces. This team has all the pieces. Even in 2011, when we went 15-1, I think we all knew that there was a major glaring weakness that could haunt us, and it did.

    So what's different now? It's in the trenches. This team absolutely dominates in the trenches. No one has been able to run on Daniels, Clark, and Guion, and the ILBs have done the job needed. We'll see if things are different this weekend with Elliott. The secondary has been a weakness, but the fact that it's been the main weakness actually bodes well - I think most of us are quite confident in this secondary once Shields returns to health and the young corners start to show the upside we saw last season. I'm not sure any team has the depth of pass rushing OLBs that are on this roster. We're 5th in the NFL in sacks, despite playing one less game than almost everyone else.

    On the other side, in Rodgers' career I'm not sure he has ever played behind a line that offers him the kind of protection he's afforded. When you see a consistently clean 5-7 pocket, you'd think it's just a matter of time before the offense starts looking 2011 all over again.

    So the bad news? They're not doing it, at least not yet. For whatever reason, the 2 time MVP still hasn't resembled one. The offense still looks out of sync much of the time, which is baffling when you see drives like the opening one on Sunday when they move down the field with absolute ease as they once did.

    So the way I see it, that's how close they are. It remains to be seen if they can fix it and find the right answer to what's been holding them back. It will be a shame if they don't, because I think even at 3-1, the question of whether this roster is championship caliber has been answered.
     
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  2. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I do like this team too, you can see the pieces, as you said. They are there. and at the most important place they are strong on both sides and that's the trenches. Young talented guys getting this much playing time is going to pay off when December roles around. At least it usually does.

    as for the offense, you can see it's different. It's not lighting it up every play like everyone wants, but it isn't last year either. Look at how Cobb is playing, how Adams is playing, even when they don't make plays, they look different running routes than last year. Amazing what having 2 good legs and 2 good arms will do to a WR.

    But one thing I noticed with this team, is they never stop believing they'll get it done and when you have that talent and they keep grinding, especially thru times when it isn't going all that well, it will come together eventually. It's always about the grind, and they do it. That bodes well for us going forward.
     
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  3. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 Cheesehead

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    I too like this team a lot.

    The biggest positive is that I really don't see one glaring weakness. The only thing I can think of is some of the big games that we have given up to certain receivers, but even that looked much better against the Giants.

    We can win in the trenches, stop the run, rush the passer, and I think our pass defense will be fine when we are 100% healthy. And our young guys looked good in the previous game.

    Offensively, you have to believe that it will get going. We are all seeing signs. A series here, a quarter there. Right now, dropped passes, miscommunication, missed throws, etc are what's holding this offense back from being an absolute juggernaut. But I believe that will become more polished by the game.

    The talent and the pieces are there. And honestly as long as we are winning games, I don't care if we are lighting the world on fire offensively right now as long as we see continued, incremental improvement. The goal is to peak towards the end of the season and take that momentum into January.

    That's how you make serious runs at Super Bowls.
     
  4. Robert Mason

    Robert Mason Cheesehead

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    I think all that's missing is the offensive rhythm. Seems like losing Jordy last year was a major problem having no deep threats. It looks like they are slowly readjusting this year. I noticed the Giants were playing two deep safties which should open the middle and the running game. The middle is for Cobb to exploit. I would like to see them work in the younger WR's a little more. With the good defensive play, the offense is scoring just enough to win now, but they have the potential to be a lot better.
     
  5. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    While I will agree the pieces to win are present in GB, 3 things have to happen to get to the Super Bowl IMO. The first is improvement/consistency. AR and his receivers have to figure things out. The signs are there, but the consistency isn't. On defense, the secondary and ILB's have to improve against the passing game. Young guys, so I see this happening as the season progresses.

    The second key is injuries. Compared to a lot of teams, the Packers have been very fortunate this year in this department. While its not something you really can control, but if key players go down, you have to be able to fill their spots without a major drop-off in talent. The CB's took a hit here and responded pretty well. Not sure the offense is quite as deep to take those hits, especially at QB, RB (Lacy) or WR (Jordy/Cobb).

    Third, like the Vikings, we need to improve in the turnover department. While some turnovers are considered lucky/unlucky, a good defense finds ways to force them. No more dropped interceptions.

    The teams we have beat this year are a combined 5-9 and all lower tiered teams, so no signature wins IMO. We played the Vikings tough, but we need to play as flawless as they have in order to beat the better teams.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2016
  6. C-Lee

    C-Lee Cheesehead

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    My mentality is stay healthy, make the playoffs and get hot at the end of the season. Once your in, anything can happen.

    We have the squad to win. We just gotta get it done.
     
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  7. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    You're ignoring the fact that they have struggled with this the entire past year. I think everyone is being complacent due to their record and the state of NFC. Guys aren't getting open, R. Rodgers is a liability, Lacy is overweight-these things are still issues, and will rear their ugly head while in big games. If it were to suddenly "click" , it would have happened by this point. AR is a future HOF in his prime, and he struggles to get over 200 yards- there are major issues in this offense.
     
  8. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I don't buy that what is happening right now with this offense is just a carryover from last year. We had over 400 yards yesterday, and moved the ball fine, but we had some big turnovers and key penalties and mistakes. Last year, we just couldn't move the ball. Rodgers couldn't throw, receivers couldn't get open, Lacy couldn't run, and the line couldn't block. This isn't the same at all, and this offense looks much closer.

    Also, you say Rodgers is a HOF QB in his prime, like he isn't the #1 reason the offense has been struggling. That very fact is exactly why I think the offense WILL turn around. Like you said, he's a HOF QB in his prime. It's highly unlikely that he just suddenly sucks at age 32.

    I have no idea what you mean about Lacy. Dude is averaging 5.5 YPC this year and looked like a beast Sunday before he got hurt. Just because he looks big doesn't mean he's out of shape. He's always going to be a big back. You didn't think he was going to come into the season looking like Darren Sproles, did you?
     
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  9. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    NO, I do not think they are struggling because Rodgers suddenly forgot how to play the position in which he has done better than any player in the history of the NFL. Drops will happen, inaccurate passes will happen. When they are absolutely devastating is when they happen during the rare occurrence in which the WR gets open, which is happening far too infrequently.

    Plenty of footage has been provided which shows the receivers being completely blanketed. I witnessed a double-move that Jordy tried to execute, and it was a bit sad. He's not the Jordy that we know, albeit being an effective receiver at this point. No QB can play at classic AR level with WRs who can be eliminated with man coverage.

    I love Lacy, but he's still overweight. Whether it be his agility, his endurance, etc,. it will cost us during the big games. That's concerning, given that he is in his contract year.
     
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  10. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Overweight compared to what? Again, Lacy has never been a small guy, even in his first 2 years when he was running everyone over. McCarthy said he's comfortable with Eddie's weight, and the performance and conditioning have been there, so I don't understand the continued concern. Even without many opportunities for him, he's on pace for 1180 rushing yards and 5.5 YPC. That's a solid season.
     
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  11. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    He has a top 3 O-Line, and though he's running hard, they are absolutely paving the way. No RB in the league looks as hefty as he does, for good reason. His weight is keeping him from being one of the best in the league, instead of merely good.
     
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  12. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I get peoples concern with Lacy, he is a big guy and played out of shape last year. This year he is still a big guy, but appears to be in much better shape. This is evidenced by some of the runs he has been finishing, basically he looks more like he did his first few years in GB.

    Yes, our Oline is playing well, but if you are going to give them all this credit for Lacy's success, what are they doing when Starks is running the ball? Starks doesn't seem to find all these holes that the OL is paving the way for Lacy to run through.
     
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  13. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    Did someone say the Packers have been lucky with injuries? 3/4 of the secondary has missed serious time. Clay, Jones and Gioun have missed. Heck against the Lions they were missing 5 or 6 guys slated to start. They have been lucky to not have season enders but they have had guys miss time. Dont forget Lindsey even though Tretter might be better or Cook.

    Could injuries be worse? Of course but they have definitely had issues.
     
  14. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Did you watch the game? Lacy was consistently breaking tackles, fighting for extra yardage, and taking multiple defenders to bring him down.

    Starks was running behind the same OL, so what changed? Also our OL ranking is because of our fantastic pass protection. Our run blocking is good, but not elite, around top 10-15.
     
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  15. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Someone will have the stats, Captain? But IMO, when you compare the Packers injuries to other teams, especially in the NFC North, I would say we have been fortunate. Sure we have gotten nicked up here and there and lost starters for a game or 2 (Shields more), but we have yet to lose an opening day starter to IR, something a lot of teams in the NFL right now haven't been so fortunate with.

    Crockett and Dorleant are currently the only 2 guys on the IR and neither were on the 53 to start the season. Lindsley is on PUP, but again, wasn't on the 53.
     
  16. bigbubbatd

    bigbubbatd Cheesehead

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    looking at ir it is obviously true. Looking game to game you are probably right I guess. However when you have only played 4 games and it seems like each game numerous defensive starters are out that seems like a big deal. I am sure others have it worse
     
  17. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Seemed like a big hit to our secondary the last few games, but right now, I think Shields is our only long term concern there.
     
  18. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

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    Can you imagine what this guy could do if he got 20 carries a game. He'd be competing for the rushing title IMO. I understand the idea of keeping him fresh but part of me says that if RBs are a dime a dozen and we can replace him at the drop of a hat run his *** into the ground for a few years and just go out and get the next one :rolleyes:
     
  19. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Lacy had 17 carries against the Lions and went over 100 yards. As much as you want to use math and assume the more the carries the more the yards, I think he will be a much more effective back by keeping his carries in the 15/game range. Plus, as long as he continues to do what he does with each of those carries AND if the passing game ever gets going, we have our 2 headed beast on offense. I would take a 300 yard game by AR at this point.
     
  20. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I just don't understand how anyone who watched how well Lacy ran on Sunday and saw how much the run game suffered after he left the game can possibly think he is part of the problem right now.
     
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  21. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I get what you're saying, and I think Lacy runs hard and is effective, but in the first half, he had a big run, great run in fact. Got the next carry and it was a good run, then took himself out. I know everyone takes themselves out at times, but for some reason I could see a rookie like Elliot taking every handoff on a drive and finishing. Lacy can't go more than 2-3 plays in a row and he's done for a while.

    Everyone blames MM for changing what's working, and maybe he does at times, but at least twice this year Lacy has taken himself out of the game as we were getting going. He runs hard, no doubt. When he's running like that, how could anyone not like him?
     
  22. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Elliott had the best game of his short NFL career on Sundays, but he only carried the ball 15 times (134 yards). Contrast that to the Bears Game, 30 carries for 140 yards. While it would be nice to get the same production out of Lacy on each and everyone of his carries, I think MM and the Packers are learning who Lacy is and how to get the most out of him. As long as Lacy continues to have runs where he has to expend a lot of energy running through, over and around tacklers, I don't think we are going to see a guy who has more then 20 carries/game, nor should we have to if most of his carries are as good as the ones he has been having.

    IMO, Lacy will never be the only back on Sunday, which is why its so important for Starks to improve and if he doesn't, find someone who can come in and still make the running game effective when Lacy needs the time on the sidelines.
     
  23. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    There's absolutely no doubt in my opinion that the Packers have enough talent on the roster to contend for the Super Bowl this season. The offense has to drastically improve over the course of the year to make it happen though.

    According to a website tracking and analyzing injuries the Packers have the 15th highest injury impact to the team's approximate value.
     
  24. Charles gerbschmidt

    Charles gerbschmidt Cheesehead

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    One has to face the fact that Rodgers has taken a lot of hits over the years and the totality of those hits are starting to take its toll. He will never say it obviously but he doesn't seem to have the same swagger in the pocket as in years past. I think McCarthy needs to recognize this and reconfigure the offense for max protection taking this into account. The Patriots do this which is why Brady never gets hit, either now or in years past. Otherwise the Packers need to bring in a different coach and OC that will.
     
  25. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    This team has the talent no doubt. What's really encouraging is the potential on defense. If the offense ever gets out of th concussion protocol that's been in since the start of 2015....we'd be a gem.
     

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