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What is our ILB situation?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by adambr2, May 20, 2013.

  1. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I'm still quite surprised that we retained both Brad Jones and AJ Hawk, because from all accounts, Bishop will be full-go for training camp. So who will be coming off the bench? Bishop is our best ILB when full healthy, and the solid tackler that we sorely need inside. He insists he will be "110%" for training camp.

    Both Jones and Hawk are also paid starter money. Not that too much depth is bad, especially with injuries last year at ILB, but it is unusual to have 3 "starting" ILB's going into the season.

    I imagine they will play matchups, but the ILB situation doesn't end at those 3, either. I know he didn't contribute much last year, but I still think Terrell Manning has the speed and athleticism to be a dark horse for us at the position as well. I hope he is. Francois is a serviceable backup and good special teams player, who ideally won't play much on defense for us.
     
  2. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Bishop is the guy I think will stiffen our ILB position. As you said Hawk and Jones will probably hold down the other position i.e. based on matchups. In combination neither make the other position particularly strong, just barely serviceable. I hope Bishop plays like a demon and doesn't get hurt because he is the only guy I have real confidence in. I don't see a lot of help coming from the backups.
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's one thing for a guy to say he'll be ready; it's another matter to see it on the field.

    Jones was signed to that deal as either a replacement for Bishop if he fails to return to form or as replacement for Hawk who neither hits hits people nor runs well anymore. In any case, Hawk will likely be gone after 2013.
     
  4. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    Yet we have these reports that Bishop is "available for trade" - what gives? It was weird when Brad Jones got his fairly big contract; It is more than weird that they seemingly are out to dump the best of the 3 ILBs. Smith was better than Jones and maybe Hawk IMO, and he's already gone. Just plain weird.
     
  5. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Weren't Jones & Hawk the same 2 guys who let Kaepernick & Peterson run past them for about 800 yards in 3 games last year?
    Why would we not want to improve it with Bishop, who was our best ILB before his hammy tore off?

    If there are any truths to those trade discussions, it makes me worry that perhaps they don't think Bishop will be able to return to the same form... I've heard complete tears of the hammy are nasty. I hated that injury, pre-season week one, on ESPN for the whole country to see. Dammit.
     
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  6. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    The Packers obviously don't feel this way, or they would have certainly not kept Jones for 4 million vs. Smith for near minimum.
     
  7. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Jones is actually the fastest of the bunch.

    I've felt the same about Jones and Hawk vs. Colin K, but the more I see highlights of the game, the more I think it was a massive failure of scheme. You're not going to stop the read option when you have ILB's with their backs turned immediately after the snap.

    The Packer company men will never admit it, but I think it was one of the poorest prepares games in the career of Dom Capers.
     
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  8. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    It wasn't just Jones and Hawk, it was the entire LB corps. Eric Walden was clueless and probably the worst of the bunch. CM III got shut down by the SF OL. It was just an awful performance in the 2nd half all around.

    I think we all expect our ILBs to be the biggest weakness in this defense, but if we can at least see improvement at the OLB with Nick Perry and on the DL with Datone Jones, that will certainly impact the overall defense.
     
  9. dansz15

    dansz15 Cheesehead

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    Good chance teams were inquiring on his status prior to the draft to see if they can land him cheap for a 3-5th rd. pick. I wouldn't look much into it. Smith's loss was tremendous though. If GB cut him they had to think his ACL was so bad his career is potentially in question. It's a shame.
     
  10. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    SPOT ON ASSESSMENT there of Capers. You see, Dom is of the OLD SCHOOL. He's not used to that type of offense, and it showed.

    I watched the Rams games vs SF.... remember they beat SF once and tied them the other time.
    Their scheme had a safety way down in the box all the time, or a corner (like a Woodson for us) and that guy got free all the time and they sent him right at Kaepernick. It put the Niners on the defensive right away.
     
  11. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Jones will start over Hawk IN SUBPACKAGES a la Chillar. That's what the money say at the moment. Manning is the fourth guy on the chart.
     
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  12. 98Redbird

    98Redbird Cheesehead

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    We overpaid for Jones in my opinion. But I'm not running the Packers, TT is, and I'm thankful for that. Hawk... we give him a lot of crap, but the guy honestly is one of the most dependable dudes on our team. He has never lived up to his first round talent, but he has been slow and steady. Dependable. And I guess I'm okay with that. Thing about this: If Hawk was injured, and was placed on IR, would you miss him? I think initially most wouldn't, but after a few weeks we would understand how he contributed...)

    Bishop, I have NO FREAKING CLUE what they were thinking in saying he was up for trade unless it was just TT seeing what he could get out of him.. He IS our ILB position. Unless possibly they don't think he will ever fully rebound from the hamstring tear that he suffered. And honestly, it was a pretty brutal injury. But I like this guy. A lot.

    I think it will be Hawk/Bishop mainly.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    When you give an ILB a fresh $4 mil per year contract you can expect him to be a featured player. If by "sub package" you mean "nickel" (65 - 70% of the snaps), that would be plausible.
     
  14. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Pretty much. He's playing our "Bandit" LB.
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    They don't know, and that's the point.
     
  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's probably more constructive to think of "starters" who play in base D only (such as Pickett) as sub package guys. Nickel players are the true "starters".
     
  17. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Hawk played well in that game, even that Captain Conceited himself(Bob McGinn) acknowledged as much. Jones played like crap along with our D-line.

    My take on Bishop, he's great playing downfield and attacking the passer. As a WILB he does about half the duties extremely well, however, he's flat out awful in the other portion of his role. The man is a rover who cannot rove, he can't run with tight ends/running backs and he struggles to get sideline to sideline. Of our ILBs I wager that Bish is probably the most limited in terms of range.
     
  18. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Jones has the most ability and potential at the WILB position. He has the most cover ability and he has the length and range to adequately cover most tight ends. The thing we need to remember is this, just about everyone who plays the WILB position in this Defense winds up producing big numbers. You have the SILB(Hawk) basically carrying your water and cleaning out those pesky lead blockers leaving you with money shots on the ball carrier and free rushing lanes on the quarterback.
    G: 13​

    90​
    25​
    5.0​
     
  19. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    If Bishop has recovered from his injury, and it appears he has, then he is our best ILB. The defense sorely missed his presence last year. He definitely has more range than Hawk.
     
  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Hawk "cleaning out those pesky blockers" and "carrying [the] water"? You can use whatever terminology you want, but that analysis does not hold water. Hawk crashing the line in front of Bishop has been an uncommon sight indeed these past few years.

    Bishop has some weaknesses. Don't we all. He was never the speediest guy (4.70-4.75). You will see him a step behind in coverage. Still and all, Bishop pre-injury would have beaten Hawk in a footrace. Hawk has lost meaningful speed since his rookie year.

    In the final analysis, every team needs a guy up the middle, be it a LB or S, who hits people and keeps them hit. Bishop was the only physical presence in the back 7 (or usually 8), and the loss of that presence is obvious.
     
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  21. mayo44

    mayo44 Guest

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    No, it doesn't come close to falling on them alone but they were 2 of the 11 guys who did.
     
  22. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Actually when you factor in substitutions, I would say about 16, 17 guys played on defense. Maybe even 18 or 19 with all the depth on the DL?
    4 safeties may have acted as turnstyles that game in Woodson, Burnett, MDJ, and perhaps McMillian?
    5 CBs..... yeah a lot of guys.

    Too bad they didn't let us play with all of em on the field at the same time. Kaepernick might have taken an actual hard hit then.....
     
  23. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Shields had a good game against San Francisco. I vaguely recall Hawk doing well too, but I could be wrong about that, I tried to block most of that game out.

    Pretty much everyone else on defense was complete and total garbage that day.
     
  24. Whatthehellsgoinonouthere

    Whatthehellsgoinonouthere Cheesehead

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    I said in another post, and still believe that in a 3-4 that Brad Jones is the 5th linebacker. He CAN start, but by starting him in one spot you weaken the unit, because you take away his ability to fill in at the other 3 positions. And I still think Hawk is junk
     
  25. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    Jones shouldn't play at OLB at all even as a backup. He's a wasted asset out there. He's far better inside.
     

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