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What are the odds James Jones gets cut before Driver???

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by metallicblaze, May 9, 2012.

  1. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Who said anything about him being better than Cobb? As for Jones and Driver, he wasn't ready. He didn't even receive a playbook until the shortened training camp started. Gurley was given a pay raise to keep him around for good reason. He has talent and Thompson knows it. He was an undrafted rookie in a lockout offseason. It would have been unreasonable to think a guy in that situation was going to beat out 2 vets and a high draft pick in his first year. Yeah, Cruz was undrafted too. But the Giants were weak at WR making it an easy call to put him on their roster. Giacomini? Why the red herring? Not sure why you're bringing him into the conversation. What Giaco has or hasn't done has NOTHING to do with Gurley or anyone else. If he has an offseason showing anything like last years training camp/preseason, he'll make the team. I'd put money on it.
     
  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Wish I could agree with you but I can't. Breno started 8 games last season including one that PFF graded as the 5th best performance by a RT last season. He was a find for the Seahawks that's for sure.

    WRs need 2 years before they really develop and show it on the field. Ginormous saying he will but I feel like its still early too judge.
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    potential? Is someone unhappy with his production or with what we are paying him? He is another big weapon for Rodgers, that when singled up can be pretty damn good. Do we expect him to be the #1 guy? I sure don't, I expect him to have a big game or two every season and then catch a few here n there in other games when needed.
     
  4. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO the discussion of Driver vs. Jones has been hashed out pretty well and we seem to be moving onto the topic of who would Driver's departure make room for if he is waived. The Packers added no less than 4 WRs as UDFAs and that makes 12 WRs on the 90-man roster. There's a lot of talk about Gurley because of his size but we should remember Diondre Borel was also paid to stick around on the PS last season so he would be available for camp. I believe Borel's athleticism intrigues them and since he's new to the position (he played QB the last three years in college, after playing WR as a freshman), he could have a significant upside. Of the UFDAs just signed there's been talk about Dale Moss and Jarrett Boykin but there is a reason they signed Marcus Rivers and Curenski Gilleylen (who gets prize of the most interesting name on the roster), too. Add in Shaky Smithson who is back to compete for a spot.

    So if Driver is thanked for all his contributions to the Packers and then waived, who should or will take his spot on the active roster? My answer to that question is easy: One of the WRs not named Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, or Jones. I currently don't have a favorite among the other 7 WRs, I just want the Packers to elevate the best of the group. And then do what they can to keep the next best one on the PS.
     
  5. packa7x

    packa7x Cheesehead

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    @GreenBlood-I understand he has talent, but he's a PS guy for a reason. He's raw, he needs work. I'm talking about the guys who have him pegged to come in and take over the #3 WR spot. People think he'll do that. People can't get over his measurables and his "good hands" but measurables and good hands don't always lead to starting jobs. With Cruz, seeing the Giants preseason games, people could see Cruz was going to be good even in 2010. I can link you to forums where I said as much. I'm very close to Metlife Stadium...I see tons of Giants games and especially preseason games. It was a matter of time for Cruz. The Giacomini bit was to compare the two..both were paid extra to sit on the PS.
     
  6. packa7x

    packa7x Cheesehead

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    Dude still has just 8 starts to his name after not appearing in 47 of 48 previous games as a somewhat well regarded 5th round pick. I'll be sold on Breno when he's a starter for a couple years.
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Your not sold on 5th round picks unless they are starters for several years? Anything more than a backup should be considered a success for that spot in the draft.

    Should I assume you think jordy Nelson is a bust since he has started something like 15 of 64 games since coming into the league?
     
  8. packa7x

    packa7x Cheesehead

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    What I'm saying is Breno filled in for 8 games because of injury, not because of talent. It wasn't like he came in and perennial non-pro bowler Robert Gallery was unseated. A 5th rounder at right tackle is essentially like a 3rd rounder. Talent in those positions last, look at our OL. Sitton was a 4th rounder, Lang was a 4th rounder, Saturday was undrafted. LT is the only prime position for high picks. Clifton was a 2nd rounder, Bulaga was initially thought to be a LT but excelled at RT...Sherrod is a first rounder. Even then, Marshall Newhouse, a 7th rounder, stepped in at LT and played well enough. Let's not kid ourselves, Giacomini couldn't even unseat Barbre.

    Then you pull the PFF stat that he had one of the 5 best performances by a RT. To be honest, I don't know how they formulate that. Do they look at it from a successful runs/amount of sacks from RT angle? Do they look at it as he was dominant, assignment sound, fundamentally sound? I'm not a big fan of those advanced stat sites because their ratings are largely subjective and the ways they come to their conclusions are inherently flawed because you really can't quantify certain aspects.
     
  9. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Well whoever said that is WAY jumping the gun. However, I don't think expecting him to make the roster as the #5 or #6 guy is beyond reason at all.

    I don't think Gurley is likely to ever get a starting job. Who said anything about starting? But the fact of the matter is that if DD had retired last year, he almost definitely would have made the team.

    BTW, a lot of people are talking about holding back the young guys again to give Driver one more year. I think within the front office, that was likely the thinking last year.

    That's the only point of comparison there is between them. Giacomini is pretty much a disappointment doesn't mean Gurley will be, which seemed to be the link you were trying to make. Why is he the guy you want to talk about in reference to PS players?

    I'm just not sure why you want to equate the PS with eminent failure. There are plenty of PS guys who have become good players, in particular, Wes Welker, Arian Foster and Ryan Torain come to mind. A lot of people were surprised when Driver made the roster as a rookie. He very easily could have been a PS guy.
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    a 5th rounder is a 5th rounder. Not anything else.

    PFF grades every player on every play. I would explain their rating system but they do a better job I'm sure than I would explaining it to you.

    You bring up Newhouse but didn't he just like breno get in the lineup bc of injury? Can't have it both ways
     
  11. packa7x

    packa7x Cheesehead

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    GreenBlood...a lot of my opposition for Gurley stems from homerism encountered on other forums/Packer friends. I'm not accusing you of believing that he's our savior, I'm just saying that's what I've heard a lot of guys say. You seem to be grounded and intelligent. I agree that making the roster as a 5th or 6th WR is 100% reasonable. My gripe is with those who are ready to crown Gurley as the next great Packer WR. It blew me away every time someone was cut, another forum reacted with about 500 posts hoping Gurley would be brought up from the PS. Some guys have an extreme man crush on the dude.

    My point with the PS is the odds are stacked against these guys. It reminds me of the draft, you're reminded every 9 seconds that Brady was a 6th round pick. Most starting QBs are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round picks. You're much more likely to hit on a QB in the top 3 rounds than in the 6th, yet every late QB gets overhyped because of Brady. If you look at our PS last offseason, Gurley wasn't even the best WR. Chastain West was. He went over to Jax and did squat (though, the jury is still out because Jax isn't a fair shake with Gabbert at QB). I'm not saying don't be optimistic, but I am saying let's not assume this guy will be great either.
     
  12. packa7x

    packa7x Cheesehead

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    Do you watch the draft? Positions go off the board quickly...LT, QB, WR, CB, DL, LB...S, RB, interior OL + RT all drop. Getting an OL late in the draft holds more value because they're passed over in favor of skill players early. How many first round centers were there this year? Or most years? 0. Pouncey and Mangold are the only 2 I can think of. The OL talent drops.

    Newhouse played his way onto the roster in 1 year, not 3 like Breno. Breno didn't even suit up for games until this season. Newhouse isn't a starter, but he's quality depth and he learned quickly. That's what I want out of a pick. A year to graso things. Breno had 2 in Gb and couldn't hack it.
     
  13. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    please do a breakdown of what the real value of each position at each draft spot so you can educate everyone. I find your theory fascinating...
     
  14. packa7x

    packa7x Cheesehead

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    It's just a general rule for drafting. Skill guys go first. LT blocks premier pass rusher so they get drafted high. Pass rushers, lockdown corners, safeties, QBs, and game changing WRs go high. THEN come the interior linemen and RTs. They're not as important/more interchangeable so they drop.
     
  15. FiercePierce6

    FiercePierce6 Cheesehead

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    No chance in hell.
     

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