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Three areas in big need of an upgrade?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by JbShell, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    Well the season is closed for us now all we can do is watch other teams fight for a chance to play in Super Bowl XL.

    I believe three areas will need to be adressed this offseason by TT so here they are

    KR/PR This are has been horrible the last three years. I believe this is the greatest reson why the Pack have slid off the chart slowly each year. This is probaly the most overlooked area in football. The Pack has been fighting for decent field position all year and when you average starting posistion is your own 25-30 yard line makes for a long field. The Pack need to find someone capable to consitenly return. This has more to do with Blocking and schemes than anything else but with a new coaching staff hopefully this improves.(Maybe Brandon Williams of Wisconsin)

    Lines O and D The Offenses production this year was boderline abysmal. No Running game which led to a relience on Brett to create plays with a depleated recieving corps.// D line was not much better although they did play the run tough at times they lacked the ability to provide a pass rush. This line made Kyle Boller look like an MVP and that spoke volumes. Help is needed there but with an Overpriced KGB it may be hard to adress this area.

    Reciever/TE Depth/ This is another area that has been bottom of the Barrel not just this year but the last three. While DD has had two great years once you got past him the production just fell off. Fergie is not and has not been the answer for the Pack. GB has got to get a 6-3 to 6-4 reciever out there to compliment Javon. There were some late season addition that did help but it was not enough a Case of to late to make a differance. ( and yes if TO was out there for a reasonable price I would give him a shot.) TE in the 90's were the key to Packer dominance in the Postseason. When a new HC comes in this has got to be adressed in Play calling. Bubba has been injury prone the last two years. Donald Lee has been a bright spot. The Pack need a possesion TE like Antonio Gates. Look for Owen Daniels of the Badgers to be available to the Pack in the Third Round.
     
  2. tkpckfan

    tkpckfan Cheesehead

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    i would love to cut ferguson and get reggie wayne but i think money will be spent elsewhere most likely
     
  3. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    We don't need anything in return for cutting Fergie cept a water boy who in itself would be more productive.
     
  4. LambeauLeaper

    LambeauLeaper Cheesehead

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    ..and that same waterboy could announce that he's a "starting caliber NFL WR" and I'd be more inclined to believe him than Turd Ferguson.
     
  5. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    The problem with our return game is not with the returner, but the blocking. Chatman is not the best option back there, but he's not terrible. Just changing the one player will not get it done. We first need to fix the other 10 players before anyone will have success returning in GB.

    Fixing the OL must be the #1 priority. The defense improved significantly last season, but the strength of this team is the offense. The offense will not play well with a bad line. It should only take one more good player to make this OL solid (a great OG, such as Hutchinson.) We have Wells and Ruegy to fill in for Flanny if he leaves. Then either Witticker or Couston will need to step up as a starter as the other OG.

    As for the DL, we have plenty of young guys playing very well. The DL opened up a lot of plays for the LBs, which is exactly what should happen in Bates' scheme. Too many times the LBs missed tackles. Still, if we solidify the offense, our defense will be just fine.

    Actually I think our TEs are just fine as long as Bubba can get healthy. Franks hasn't had injury problems until this year. He was #2 on the consecutive start streak for a long time. Martin stepped up this season, but needs to stay healthy. Lee is probably as good as any #3 TE around. We could upgrade Martin, but otherwise this isn't a bad unit.

    For the WRs, I think the addition of Gardner would go a long way. He's a tall, big possesion WR who would can go over the middle. That's what we need to take pressure off of Driver and Walker. If Murphy and Walker come back strong, the WRs will be a strong unit: Driver, Walker, Gardner, Murphy and Chatman (or draft pick). Of course it's obvious that I left Fergie and TT should do the same.

    The Packers have good talent and we can turn it around next season. The major key is solidify the OL. Of course we could improve this team at just about every position, but that isn't feasible with the cap and FAs. TT should spend the money on improving the OL and then continue to improve the team through the draft.
     
  6. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    Here's my take on every position...

    Quarterback
    Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Craig Nall (UFA)
    --I think Nall signs elsewhere,
    Need Score (1 to 10): 4...if Favre retires: 8
    Possible UFA's: Jon Kitna, Josh McCown

    Running Back
    RB: Samkon Gado, Ahman Green (UFA), Najeh Davenport (UFA), Tony Fisher (UFA)
    --I think Fisher comes back, but the other two fa's can go
    Need Score: 6...we're gonna need to probably draft and sign two backs
    Possible UFA's: Rock Cartwright (contributor for the Redskins--size of a fullback), Moe Williams (good reciever out of the backfield), Chester Taylor (legit; backup to Jamal Lewis in baltimore)

    Wide Reciever
    Javon Walker, Donald Driver, Terrence Murphy, Rod Gardner (UFA), Antonio Chatman, Andrae Thurman
    --please cut Robert Ferguson...if we sign Rod Gardner, I see no need to add to this position, other than a late pick for depth, or possibly sign a good kick returner
    Need Score: 2

    Tight End
    Bubba Franks, Donald Lee, David Martin
    --great tight end trio of Bubba can come back healthy
    Need Score: 0

    O-Line
    LT-Chad Clifton, LG-Will Whitticker, C-Mike Flanagan, RG-????, RT-Mark Tauscher
    --the interior line worries me, Whitticker comes on strong, Flanagan inconsistent, I dont know who plays Right Guard, it varies, please cut Adrian Klemm
    FA's Kevin Barry, Grey Ruegamer,
    Possible UFA's...wouldnt it be great if our big FA splash were on Seattle guard Steve Hutchinson
    Need Score: 8, something must be done to improve depth, and quality for that matter--Tauscher should be going to the pro bowl, but its down hill from there

    ok i'm tired, i'll do defense later
     
  7. ravage

    ravage Cheesehead

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    Javon very nice post. Well thought out. I don't agree with all of your assessments but it's still well thought and because I'm cheesy I'm going to steal a bit and give my need numbers too.

    QB-3 It's usually a good idea to take a QB later in the draft, it's worth the chance. I think if Brett retires getting a cheap veteran like Kitna would be a good idea.

    RB-7 Although I don't believe this is where should spend a high draft pick we'll need some bodies. The most interesting player Javon mentioned was Chester Taylor. He would be a great guy to go for if we could get him for the right price. He could be a high caliber starting RB.

    WR-4-5 This position depends a lot on the recovery of Walker the need could go through the roof if Walker doesn't regain full health.

    TE-4 If all things stayed the same I'd agree with the zero of Javon but if we lose Barry we will need a blocking TE. None of the guys we have could replace that man.

    OL 8-9 I like our tackles. And I feel Flanagan will be fine when he recovers from his sports hernia. But at Guard we really need to go and find/draft some quality players. No matter who is at QB or RB the interior of this line is not good enough to allow GB to be winners.
     
  8. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    good point on Kevin Barry, but we could just as easily draft/sign a backup tackler rather than carry four tight ends

    -wide reciever...rod gardner is of great importance, and i think he is the cushion we need in case Walker isnt 100%...a top four of Walker, Driver, Gardner, Murphy...I'd say draft a guy in the 4th-6th rounds

    -QB...I disagree with what you say...usually its good to draft a QB...but I think that position needs some age, with Brett or without

    -Running back...Chester Taylor, hey, there was some guy from Baltimore, I think his name was Priest Holmes, that the Ravens kinda gave up on...you never know...I like Moe Williams for his "3rd down back" capabilities, but we do need someone to run the ball other than Gado or he'll flame out thru a full-season schedule

    the need number rating system sucks...i'll just rank needs top to bottom when i do defense lol
     
  9. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Javon...great post. That IS alot of work and I pretty much agree with you. The one caveat I would add is to the WR position. Hopefully by draft day we will have a better idea of where Javon Walker is in his rehab. I think your grade is assuming he comes back at 100%. Sometimes it takes 2 years to recover fully from an injury like that especially for RB's and WR's. Also he wasn't very happy with his contract. Unfortunately, I think he is a question mark right now. If he can't or won't go we need another top flight WR.

    Terrance Murphy's future is in doubt also, because of his neck injury.


    Sorry for the redundancy on some of this. I posted it before fully reading ravage's.
     
  10. ravage

    ravage Cheesehead

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    I said nothing about having 4 TEs. I think Martin would be the odd man out if we got a true blocking TE.

    To me Rod Gardner was someone we signed in desperation. I don't think he's an answer to any question at WR.

    I'm all over the Chester Taylor bandwagon as long as the price is right.

    I, personally, like the number rating system. But that's just me, I guess.
     
  11. jdlax

    jdlax Cheesehead

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    Regarding Chester Taylor: from what I have heard on a few radio shows, it's more likely to see Taylor wearing a Ravens jersey next season than it is Jamal Lewis.
     
  12. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    OK, defense time

    Defensive End
    Starters-Aaron Kampman (UFA), Kabeer Gbaja-Biamilla
    ...Mike Montgomery, Cullen Jenkins

    -Signing Aaron Kampman is a priority--I dont care if he is mediocre at best, his model of "giving 150%" would be a great influence on the young talent we have...and he still makes a difference, sacking the QB, forcing some fumbles, yeah bring him back
    -KGB, everyone knows he's the one I dont like...he wasn't a presence at all this year...and he doesnt play the run...Mike Montgomery, I dont think he's a starter just yet, but he can be a situational run defender from the end position
    Possible moves: Trade, yes TRADE KGB (3rd round pick) and either draft Mario Williams/Kiwanuka--or sign one of the few solid FA's out there...such as Darren Howard from the Saints...I like Marcellus Wiley from the Jags, he's fallen out of favor with poor performance of late but hey that's how we got Grady at such a bargain, Kimo Von Oelhoeffen from Pitt, others

    Defensive Tackle
    Starters-Grady Jackson (UFA), Colin Cole
    ...Corey Williams, Kenny Peterson (RFA), Donnell Washington
    -Grady Jackson is overrated, some games he'll dominate, some games teams run away from him, and successfully, he's older, fatter, and has bad knees, I would be in favor of letting him walk
    -Donnell Washington I could care less, had high hopes, but cut his *** and we can draft another project 5th stringer
    -Kenny Peterson I was never a fan of, he will never start in this league but he's legit as a pocket-crashing DT, good for situational
    -This position needs help--Colin Cole was a pleasant surprise but I dont think he's anything monumental, Corey Williams is not bad, alright to play the run
    Possible Solutions: I'm all for drafting Oregon's Haloti Ngata, he can clog the run by forcing a double team, and he has speed to get after the passer...Free Agents: Damione Lewis and Ryan Pickett from the Rams, Russell Davis from the Cards, Larry Triplett from the Colts

    Linebacker
    Starters-Robert Thomas, Nick Barnett, ?????
    ...Paris Lenon (UFA), Roy Manning, Brady Poppinga (ready for '06?)
    -I assume Na'il Diggs gets cut ASAP, he is due some serious coin otherwise
    -Thomas is speedy, but I don't think he's in it for the long haul, lacks size and strength necessary to play linebacker in the NFL--still a good trade to get some production from having dealt Chris Johnson
    -Possible Solutions--Linebacker AJ Hawk in the first round if he's there for us at #5, if not, there are some good LB's there for us in rounds 2 or 3...Free Agents...Julian Petersen (SF), Jamie Winborn (Jax), Hunter Hillenmeyer (Chi), Andra Davis (Cle), Nick Griesen (NYG), Keith Adams (Philly), Akin Ayodele (Jax)...some good possibilities as free agents here, signing Andra Davis could force Nick Barnett to the outside, regardless I expect this position to be addressed through the draft AND free agency

    Cornerback
    Starters: Al Harris, Ahmad Carroll,
    ...Mike Hawkins, other assorted scrubs
    -I think everyone's patience is running out with Carroll
    -Harris is great at corner, but he's on the wrong side of 30
    -Possible Solutions--This position needs help, so pepole like Jason Horton can't come close to the field, I don't think we should use our first round pick on Jimmy Williams, but we need a lot of help, so a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick should be spent here...Free Agents--De'shea townsend (Pitt), Chad Scott (NE), Jamar Fletcher (SD), Nate Clements (Buf), RW McQuarters (Det), Will Allen (NYG), Charles Woodson (Oak)--I think somewhere out of those guys we can find someone to start over Ahmad Carroll--ALSO, Hank Poteat from New England, could be a Nickel/Dime corner, and also serve as a return man--something to think about--Roderick Hood from Philly is a restricted free agent, i've always been impressed with him

    Safety
    Starters: FS-Mark Roman, SS-Nick Collins
    ...Marviel Underwood
    -Mark Roman improved, but he's still not the best, we still need that true 'centerfield' free safety that can lurk the secondary and make some picks for us--because this team can't force turnovers
    -just a little depth, please
    -Possible Solutions--Will Demps (Balt), Lance Schulters (Mia), Keion Carpenter (Atl), Corey Chavous (Min), Dexter Jackson (TB)

    Special Teams
    BJ Sander, Ryan Longwell (UFA)
    -I think its time to end the BJ Sander experiment, perhaps spend a 6th-7th round pick on a punter to challenge him a little
    -If Longwell wants top dollar, please dont give it to him

    I used THIS website for free agents
    TheRedZone.com 2006 NFL Free Agents
     
  13. packerfan4ever

    packerfan4ever Cheesehead

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    i'm not up on the draft,but your comments are very informative,i do agree that the o-line needs atention first then the d-line and then special teams the yards they gave up in some of the games was just horrible,i guess we do have to wait and see who the h.c. will be and what type of influnce he will have on t.t. when the draft rolls around.
     
  14. billv

    billv Cheesehead

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    I don't think Michael Bennett at running back would be a bad choice. He still has great speed and probably won't be too expensive.
     
  15. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    I dont think micheal Bennett is a "Lambeau" type player, if you can follow what I'm saying...he's a fast guy who relies on quick cuts and finesse moved--best suited for a dome team--or turf in general for that matter, I like Moe Williams and his ability to be a 3rd down back,
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Isn't the LG from Seattle Steve Hutchinson going to be a FA this year??? I know TT helped get this guy and he would be an excellent addition to the team...That is if TT will spend the money..
     
  17. ILOVETHEPACK

    ILOVETHEPACK Cheesehead

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    Best freaking quote I read all day Bud.
     
  18. Toronto_Cheesehead

    Toronto_Cheesehead Cheesehead

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    I'd love to see Hutchinson lining up for the Pack. Unfortunately, I think the Seahawks will tag him if a long term deal can't be reached.
     
  19. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    1. Offensive Line - The defense was our strength this season. That alone says a lot. We need some talent at the Oline. Now I am not talking about pro bowlers or gazillion dollar FAs. If we can just get some solid, consistent guards, and a center(flanny sucked this year, I think the injuries caught up), then we can compete and score at least 24 a game (if Favre comes back). and not only an upgraded Offensive line to protect favre(or Rodgers, gulp), but we're gonna have a new young runner back there in Samkon Gado(or a draft pick, or surprise FA)

    2. Defensive Backs - We have 2 Dbacks who are NFL caliber. One is rookie safety Nick Collins who proved a lot, and is only going to improve(which scares me). The Other is AGING cornerback and playoff hero, Al Harris. That is it. That is all. In the base defense, we have 4 DBs out there, and only 2 of them are worth a damn.

    Ahmad Carroll is a Bust. That is my opinion, but it might as well be a fact. He has done nothing but cause heartache and penalties for the packers in 2 years. He was a #1 pick with expectations of being very good. Now Pack fans will settle for being average at best, and we will be waiting a long time for that I think. Carroll, who was drafted by HC\GM at the time, Mike Sherman. Sherman is gone, and for the love of the packers, I hope Carroll is too. If Joey Thomas got cut, I see NO reason why Carroll won't be shown the door by TT.

    Mark Roman is an average safety...in the arena league. But this is the NFL. Mark got 2 interceptions, and both were gimmees. He replaced Sharper as being the safety who whiffs on tackles, and shows up 1 second too late. We need to get Nick Collins a talented athletic safety to play next to. I personally would prefer a veteran, to show Nick some things. If we can get a Nick Collins type safety or better for the other safety position, then our passing defense(which was rated 7th i believe? I dont know, someone told me it was good somehow) will get a lot better.

    3. Coaching - as I write this, Sherman is fired, and no HC has been hired yet. Rossley is technically still on the team, and that upsets me as every day passes. Bates is rumored to want to leave if he doesn't get the HC job. Sherman wasn't good. A lot of NFC north titles when the NFC North sucked ***. gee thanks for memories and wasted years of Bretts career, *******. However, that doesn't mean there are WORSE coaches out there. We really do not want to hire any of them. That list includes Russ Grimm, Tim lewis, and Maurice Carthon. A line coach, an offensice coordinator of THE BROWNS, and the defensive coordinator of the giants? when were the browns an offensive dynamo, or the giants defensive studs? Bates is the answer. I hope TT gets him, and if not, I hope he doesnt get any of these other 3 men. If Bates is named HC, then he will have his suggestions for OC, and DC, and TT and Bates will discuss those positions and hire who they feel is right.

    Areas NOT in need of a BIG upgrading:

    defensive line - Kampman set packers records,, Grady Jackson sealed the run bigtime, Cullen Jenkins did what I said he'd do all year long, and be a solid tackle. KGB is the only weakness, and it would cost us too much to get rid of him this year. We also have Collin Cole and Mike Montgomery to spell the big men, and they are quality subs, probably starters on some other teams in the NFL.

    Linebackers - Nick Barnett is good, led the nfc in tackles(i believe). Na'il Diggs just got expensive and will probably be let go. Paris Lenon had real great plays(like covering moose on the bears like a stud. an LB on a pro bowl WR? cmon, give him some credit). Robert Thomas wasn't very impresive, but was a good pickup for the year. He won't be back. We also have some rookie LBs who got hurt but were impressive. ALSO --- rumor has it, our #1 pick(5 overall) in the 2006 draft will be a linebacker. So a Nick Barnett\AJ Hawk\paris Lenon is solid
     
  20. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    is there a credible link to this...this is now one of my fears now that mccarthy is basically officially our HC--Bates leaving would infuriate me

    McCarthy shows some promise that our offense will be more creative to an extent--hopefully he gets his pick of OC
     
  21. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    its all on packersnews.com if you dont believe me. i may be a dick, but im not a liar.
     
  22. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    nah i'm not saying you are it's just amidst all the coach/favre/whatever speculation there's been a grand game of "he said she said"...but i'm truly worried about bates leaving
     
  23. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    i feel ya, javon. id like to feel ya...oh~!
     

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