1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

The Incomplete Catch Rule.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by wdd1979, Sep 18, 2011.

  1. wdd1979

    wdd1979 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +1
    Ok everybody I know rules are rules. But I feel, and I believe most NFL fans must feel, that the rules on what determine a complete or incomplete catch are getting a little out of control. Am I the only one that feels like Finley's catch should be ruled a touchdown?

    I'm sure that everybody watching, even in Carolina, seen that replay and said he caught it. How much further can we go with this rule. Complete the process ? Next season a receiver may have to walk back to the sideline with the ball before it will be considered a catch. I want to start a viral petition online to get the league's attention and fix this rule causing injustice to receivers in the NFL.

    Is there anyone else out there who feels the same way and can support such an action ?
     
  2. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Ratings:
    +871
    What really bothers me is the new rule about the defensless player.

    Actually lets take away the tuck rule and all these new bullshit rules and go back to 1980's style offenses. Games were way more fast paced without flags everywhere.
     
  3. wdd1979

    wdd1979 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +1
    exactly ! and football players played football !
     
  4. Lunchboxer

    Lunchboxer Guest

    Ratings:
    +76
    Exactly.

    If Vince Lombardi was alive I dont think he would be coaching considering all the friggen flags for nothing.

    NFL has turned into The No Fun League...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. gbpack12_2_89

    gbpack12_2_89 Bleeding Green and Gold

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Messages:
    702
    Ratings:
    +192
    That was a catch no Ifs ands or buts about it when you have 2 feet 1 knee and 1 elbow down I'm sorry its a damn catch!!
     
  6. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,392
    Ratings:
    +445
    I can always weigh my feelings on a rule by how I would feel if an opposing team did the same, you know, like if an opposing player had punched someone like CWood did.
    That should have been a catch by any definition of the word. When the words of a rule can be determined to take a catch away that wording of the rule needs to be examined. Still, he should have used his other hand to cradle the ball darnit.
     
  7. GBPack90

    GBPack90 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    29
    Ratings:
    +12
    The Patriots ended up getting a touchdown after the ball was stripped as Gradkowski went to the ground and it was still ruled a touchdown, so after seeing that after the Packers game it didn't make any sense
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,112
    Ratings:
    +1,442
    The problem I have with some of the new rules is they are somewhat inconsistent. It leaves room for a gray area and it causes confusion and discrepancy. There were a couple of calls that went against the Saints in the 1st half that I thought were questionable as did the commentators and the Saints coach. I forget the specifics of the plays but the Saints coach was as furious as I've ever seen him.

    The rules not only call into question the nature/ fairness of the rules themselves but the job performance of the ones throwing the flags. It comes down to officiating, a problem that seems to of carried over from last year. I like how every scoring play is subject to a booth review. That is going to save a lot of coaches from throwing their red flags. I don't like the defenseless player rule. Too much of a gray area and inconsistency in officiating. Rules that determine what is a complete pass (catch) and what is an incomplete pass need to be explicitly clear. I think the player should maintain control and possession of the football until he hits the ground. If the ball comes loose before he hits the ground, then I don't think that should be a complete pass. But that's just me. I don't make the rules and many football players should thank God I don't.

    To conclude, I really feel the name of the game with any rule is consistency and that leads us down the path of officiating. Good luck with that and welcome to the NFL.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Chicocheese

    Chicocheese Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    628
    Ratings:
    +214
    I agree with GPack. He had a total of 3 steps, a knee and an elbow down. He caught the damn ball. I would say the same thing if it were the Panthers that had the call go against them. It is total BS. Now, correct me if I am wrong but isn't there a rule that the ground cannot cause a fumble? Isn't that when Finley lost the ball? When he hit the ground, after taking 3 steps in the endzone with the ball in his hands!?
     
  10. Crazy Packers Fan

    Crazy Packers Fan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    Messages:
    400
    Ratings:
    +117
    The NFL is constantly changing its standards on what is a catch and what isn't. Remember the "Bert Emanuel rule" that was put into the league after the infamous play that cost Tampa Bay a spot in the Super Bowl in the 1999 playoffs. For several years after that, it seemed as if every play that was close to being a catch was ruled in favor of the receiver and ruled a catch.

    Last year everything changed on the Week 1 Calvin Johnson no-catch. By the officials ruling that a no-catch, other officials around the league have now begun ruling against the receiver in every close situation. The Finley play was so similar that I knew it would be ruled a no-catch. You're going to see a lot of similar situations for a while.

    Eventually some bizarre play will happen and the NFL will change its standards again.
     
  11. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Ratings:
    +871
    I agree 100%

    My biggest problem is all the "Safety rules" that have made defenses easier, rather than the brutal fearful defenses that the NFL glorified years ago.

    I was watching the Saints and Bears yesterday. First quarter. They put Cutler on the ground 3 times while he was throwing the ball, and even had him shook up driving his sorry *** in the ground, and as usual. Flags everywhere, "Roughing the passer" "Defenseless player". I remember when Steve Young would get his brains knocked out doing those crazy runs and nope, no flags everywhere, and he took some of the worst beatings I ever seen. People say Vick gets every flag and every penalty when someone gets him on the ground, but I can't say Chicago don't get a ton of calls when someone is knocking their cry baby quitter on the ground.
     
  12. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,277
    Ratings:
    +966
    Looked like the ball came out as soon as he hit the ground and the rule is you have to maintain control all the way thru. I am pissed about the two roughing the passer calls. One on us and one on Atlanta. You have to let these guys play football, you can't ask the linemen to go full speed and then just put on the brakes. Did you see the helmet to helmet Jenkins put on Ryan that was a no call?
     
  13. GreenBayGal

    GreenBayGal Cheese Goddess

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,374
    Ratings:
    +1,123
    I agree with Kitten in that "consistancy" is the key. But how that will happen is beyond me. The area is so gray as far as degree of a hit or if they held the ball an additional mili-second. Easiest solution is to play flag football. And that would go over like a fart in church.
     
  14. wdd1979

    wdd1979 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +1
    Those who say he should have cradled the ball, I agree, you are correct. Those who say he didn't maintain the ball all the way through "the process", you are also correct. However I think the point that I am getting at is that no, the ground can't cause the fumble. What about that rule? Everyone agrees that it was a catch, even though by rule it wasn't a catch. Those who say the problem is consistency, also correct. What I think we are all saying is that it was a catch, and the rule of the process over ruling the rule about the ground causing a fumble is a bit absurd.

    I think I may start a facebook page petitioning against the rule of the "process" and see what kind of traction we can get.
     
  15. Daniel

    Daniel Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3
    Ratings:
    +0
    No way it was a catch. He Calvin Johnsoned it at the end of the catch except even worse than Calvin Johnson as instead of just setting the ball down he lost control and it popped out. You have to maintain possession through the entire catch and as such the points of contact with the ground are irrelevant since he never actually had control of the ball.
     
  16. wdd1979

    wdd1979 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +1
    Yes I understand that he did not finish "the process". But why does the "process" over-rule the ground can't cause a fumble rule. Obviously they knew it wasn't fair to call an incomplete catch when it was caused by the ground, so why now ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Guacamole

    Guacamole Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Ratings:
    +93
    got a link/video showing the td, so we can compare the two "catches"? If that samething happened to a Panther receiver, everyone of you would have said it was not a catch.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,837
    Ratings:
    +3,483
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-non-td-in-video-explaining-rules-to-players/

    Video with Jeff Fisher explaining stuff

    http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d8216a10b/2011-NFL-rule-changes-and-points-of-emphasis

    7 min mark starts catches...There is a catch by Desean Jackson about 830 mark ruled incomplete that is almost exactly what happened to Finley
     
  19. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,837
    Ratings:
    +3,483
    I agree it is almost contridictory
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,837
    Ratings:
    +3,483
  22. Guacamole

    Guacamole Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2008
    Messages:
    431
    Ratings:
    +93
  23. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,837
    Ratings:
    +3,483
    Anyone have video of Finleys?
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,837
    Ratings:
    +3,483
    I think it is because a defender was on him as he landed on the ground..

    Technically got tackled in the endzone and the ball didnt pop out until a sec after hitting the ground

    If there wa sno defender on him at all, then I think it would been an incomplete
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +980
    That's a great point, but I honestly think the refs missed and missed badly on that one.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page