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The importance of a running game

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by rodell330, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Anyone else watch the Niners game last night? anybody see Alex smith out there looking like joe Montana? You know why he was able to complete 98% of his passes? because he has a RELIABLE run game to lean on. The Cardinals(a pretty good defense) did not have the luxury of dropping linebackers into coverage because they had to respect the threat of a running game.

    All these folks on here that keep arguing we don't need a running game because we are a passing team clearly doesn't really understand football. Any defensive coordinator in the history of football will tell you that it's a win if they can drop lb's into coverage and just use their front four or three to stop the run. Those are extra defenders agsinst the pass which is a huge benefit when it comes to stopping a team based on...being a "passing team". We had a chnace to grab Lynch last year and blew it....go figure. TT needs to not be so passive.
     
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  2. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Right, then you have games like when the Niners played the Giants and got blown out at home because they can't pass the ball. You're kidding yourself if you think the Niners aren't just as one dimensional as we are. For them it's running the ball. For us it's passing.

    Also, we went over this in the great Marshawn Lynch thread. The fact is you really only need the illusion of being able to run the ball. You need to run it well enough to sell it. We don't run well enough to sell the idea of running the ball, which is our issue.
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    From the 2011 season... of the top 5 rushing teams, 2 went to the playoffs. Of the bottom 5 rushing teams, 2 went to the playoffs.
     
  4. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    So what is your argument? A solid running game makes a passing offense that rellies so much on throwing the ball and playaction better. That is a FACT. A running game is important...period.
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    No it's a myth. It's been proven its a myth.
    You have teams with terrible running games winning the SB, if you don't like numbers and would rather have an example look to the giants last season.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Maybe I missed it, but when last season did Seattle try and trade lynch?

    Or are you talking about 2010? ... Yes TT blew the 2010 season for the packers by not trading for lynch. You hit it on the head. He should be fired. Stupid GM on the year doesn't know what he is doing!!! Grrrr
     
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  7. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    yes 2010...and no TT shouldn't be fiered. Never said that, however he is to reluctant when it comes to trading imo. You are right about one thing tho, running the ball to be effective passing it is a myth.
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I don't believe TT has ever traded for a starting player. He was close with Tony Gonzalez tho
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Here is a observation

    I think everyone would like to have a solid running game...But TT will not go after huge big name guys in trades or even free agency

    Making threads every day wont change that fact...People need to really move on, and accept there is a very slim chance of him doing it.
     
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  10. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    A myth? Proven? Where? When? The Giants one year? Lets see what the Giants had. Two backs Jacobs and Bradshaw that combined for 1200+ yards. The Giants as a whole only had 1400+. But here's the rub, they could run the ball when they wanted to. While not in the numbers of high rushing yards of Denver or Houston last year they are only slightly off the number of the two top backs of teams that win the Super Bowl.

    Code:
    Packers 1996  Bennett 899  Levens 566    1465 Yards
    Broncos 1997  Davis 1750  Hebron 222    1972 Yards
    Broncos 1998  David 2008  Loville 161    2169 Yards
    Rams 1999    Faulk 1381  Holcombe 294  1675 Yards
    Ravens 2000  Lewis 1364  Holnes 588    1952 Yards
    Pats 2001    Smith 1157  Faulk 169      1326 Yards
    Tampa 2002    Pittman 718  Alstott 548    1329 Yards
    Pats 2003    Smith 642    Faulk 638      1280 Yards
    Pats 2004    Dillon 1635  Faulk 255      1890 Yards
    Pitt 2005    Bettis 1202  Bettis 368    1570 Yards
    Colts 2006    Addi 1081    Rhodes 641    1722 Yards
    Giants 2007  Jacobs 1009  Ward 602      1611 Yards
    Pitt 2008    Parker 791  Moore 588      1379 Yards
    Saints 2009  Thomas 793  Bell  655      1448 Yards
    Packers 2010  Jackson 703  Khun 281        984 Yards
    Giants 2011  Jacobs 571  Bradshaw 659  1230 Yards
    
    Now these are just the numbers for the two top RB's for each team. For example, the Packers in 2010, Rodgers was the second leading rusher not Khun. Add Rodgers and you get another 356 yards to that 984. But rushing don't matter. Which one of these sets numbers proves running the ball to win the Super Bowl is a myth?
     
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  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    "In theory, rushing YPA makes a lot of sense. The more efficient you are at gaining rushing yards, the better the rushing team you are. However, unlike the passing game, rushing YPA does not correlate to winning, practically making it a trivial, irrelevant stat.

    Whether you run for under 4.0 (.758) or greater than 5.0 (.767), as long as you hit 30 carries you are likely going to win the game over three-quarters of the time. The rushing effectiveness is irrelevant as the carries themselves tell us a lot about how the game played out.

    Likewise, if you failed to exceed 20 carries, it does not matter if you averaged over 5.0 (.084) or under 4.0 (.095), you likely lost the game over 90 percent of the time.

    Even if you average over 6.0 YPC, teams have a record of 15-169 (.082) when they are at 20 carries or less. In that case, it is likely one long run is boosting the average. No matter how good one run is, it still only can help you for one drive in a game."

    - cold hard football facts is credited with that one.

    Pwning a Vikings troll always feels good.

    ~~~~~~~~~`

    link added by longtimefan

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...study-the-evolution-nfl-pass-run-ratio/15992/
     
  12. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Stats can be sliced and skewed many ways. Since most of the games the Packers don't have over 30 attempts and regardless of attempts a total combined yardage of 70 rushing yards won't get it done on a consistant basis.

    I'd advocate a better way to gauge running game effectiveness is short yardage running attempts conversion percentage along with time of possession. MM is shying away a bit from his total reliance on his attempts based focus lately.
     
  13. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    So Provide a link when you quote. And you didn't own me. It proves the point that you need a running game. Something you have been adamant about not needing. And if rushing YPA does not matter why does Passing YPA matter? What they are saying is that a 20 yard pass does more than a 20 yard run. It's still 20 yards. So if a team A and B are playing and team A rushes for 25 carries and most of those carries end up with negative yards, and team B rushes for 15 carries, all for positive yardage team is more likely to win.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Continuous trolling from a Vikings fan. Burn you up that you got pwned?

    I have continuously said its the number not the quality of runs. But go ahead and continue making up crap. Ignore the argument I just had over the word "effective" when talking about running the ball.

    Here ya go. Hope it's not over your head. I am sure you will attempt to misconstrue it.

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.co...study-the-evolution-nfl-pass-run-ratio/15992/
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Looking at the link for myself..Posting things relevant to this topic


     
  16. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Quotes you made about the effectiveness of running the ball.
    Quotes you made about running that deal with yards.

    And finally quote you made were you talk about the number of run over yards.

    So excuse the heck out of me if I am a little confused about exactly what you are talking about.
     
  17. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That pretty much sums it up.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When compared to the rest of the league we have

    Giants last place
    Packers 24th
    Saints 6th
    Pitts 23rd
    Giants 4th
    Colts 18th
    Pitts 5th
    Ne 7th
    Ne 27th
    Tampa 27th
    Ne 13th
    Baltimore 5th
    St Louis 5th

    Avg of them is 13th
     
  19. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Even mike & mike in the morning said this and this was my take on Alex smith before they even said it:

    the reason his completion % was so high is that he was dinking & dunking. Short little 5 yard passes and screen passes that let his WR's or RB's make the play for yardage. Hell, i bet I could complete at least 50% of the passes he threw...lol Granted his run game is badA$$, but Alex smith is not that good of a QB, he is a 2nd teir QB. His short "safe" passes are what gives him the ability to have a good completion %

    Alex smith & Christian Ponder = same QB
    Both are to scared to throw the ball up, both are to conservative, both are OVERRATED.
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    He had 10.55 yards per completion vs the Packers..

    For the season 7.9 yards per pass....145 completions 209 attps 1659 yards

    Rodgers is 7.3 yards per pass...205 completions 297 attps 2165 yards
     
  21. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    WE NEED A RUNNING GAME TO GET WHERE WE WANT TO GO...WHY WHY WHY ARE WE ARGUING ABOUT THIS FACT?. EVEN WHEN WE WON THE SUPER BOWL WE FOUND A RUNNING GAME WITH STARKS THROUGHOUT THE PLAYOFFS. THAT IS A FACT.....AND YES I AM YELLING BECAUSE THIS SHOULDN'T EVEN BE A DEBATE TO THOSE OF US WHO TRULY UNDERSTAND THE GAME OF FOOTBALL.
     
  22. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    That may all be true, but a pass thrown for 5 yards to its target and then the WR runs it up the field for another 10 yds.....that puffs up his stats. Point blank: he is a dink/dunk passer
     
  23. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    But we cant see that from just his stats..
     
  24. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    You can when you watch the game...lol
     
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  25. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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