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The GB philosophy is a little unnerving.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Croak, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    On Packers.com there is an article describing how the team goes about drafting and maintaining a "deep roster".

    When I see things like not franchising anyone right now, or letting Jenkins walk because of the big bucks, it gives me the heebie-jeebies, yet it seems to work.

    Every year it seems they let go of expensive guys that I thought they should keep. Then they bring in blue light specials that seem to do the job.

    Don't be surprised if they don't sign ANY free agents. And I won't be too surprised if Jenkins, and Grant, and Jackson and Jones are all released. Does this scare anyone else?
     
  2. FiercePierce6

    FiercePierce6 Cheesehead

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    Jenkins will walk. No way we release Grant. Jackson is still a decent 3rd down guy. Jones is no longer under contract so if he leaves it will be through free agency, although I'd like to see him back as well.
     
  3. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Here are reasons that I read the Packers will probably deal Grant. I posted these in a couple other threads.

    We still don't know how severe that ankle sprain was. It apparently required surgery to damaged ligaments. That leaves some pretty big question marks hanging over his head. He has an expensive contract, and Ted Thompson likes to work more frugally. The running back by Committee approach worked. He's a hot and cold player. The Packers are a pass first team. Running backs are expendable. There are other teams that would be willing to pay a lot more than the Packers to have Grant. He held out and didn't like his last deal. So it's highly probable, that were another team to enter into trade talks with Thompson for Grant, Thompson would deal him.

    It would be nice if he were back, but I wouldn't count on it.
     
  4. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    I'm not sure what about their methodology that you find unnerving. It's not like they just let every player go that wants a big contract. Bishop, T. Williams both got big contracts this year, A-Rod and Jennings got big contracts last year, Grant got a big one 3 years ago, Driver and Woodson have gotten big contracts.

    The Packers are willing to pay guys $$ contracts, however when there are guys like Mike Neal and CJ Wilson in the wings waiting and can fill the spot, there is no reason to keep guys like Jenkins. It was the same way with Cory Williams (though Jenkins is a FAR better person and athlete than Jenkins)
     
  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I believe it was cheeseheadtv that said Grants injury wasnt that serious. Reguardless I dont see TT cutting Grant. He is owed 3.5 million next season. Thats about right for his ability. But what helps the packers is that he will play his *ss off if he wants a decent contract next season from someone. Players always play better in contract years and with basically nothing to show for this year its a big deal for grant next year. As far as trade talks, again his value isnt as high as it should be due to the injury. Also that type of runner is available in FA this year. Bradshaw and Benson are both similar style runners imo and available.

    As far as TT not going after anyone keep in mind what he is going to have to pay in the next couple years. After next season Jennings is going to want a new contract. Finley is going to want big $. And then Clay most likely will sign the largest contract for a linebacker. Thankfully the way Arods contract is structured he wont be looking for a new deal for several years.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    actually dont be surprised if something happens with Clays contract in the next 12 months. He isnt a FA for another 3 seasons but he is making chump change right now ($660,000 next season), so dont be surprised if he gets an extension at some point to give him a pay raise while extending his contract a few seasons, which would work well for both sides.
     
  7. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    I would expect that to be done by the end of next season, particularly if he has another 10+ sack season. He's not hurting for money though, not with the Suave deal and I'm sure he'll get more endorsement deals
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I think his promotioal 1 time fee is over 40k right now. But yeah a deal benefits both sides, lock him up for a couple more years at some not insane cost but a big jump for him.
     
  9. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    He's also due $1.75M in a roster bonus to be paid in March (and another $500K in workout bonuses). That's why I think it would be difficult to trade him - does anyone think Thompson would pay $1.75M and then trade him? We just witnessed how important it is to have two workhorse backs so I would guess Thompson, McCarthy and staff like the idea of having Grant and Starks.

    I think 2011 will be Grant's last year in Green Bay.
     
  10. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    fettpett, what is the deal with your sig? I can't figure it out, beyond the overly dramatic hair-flipping.
     
  11. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    It's Karen Gillian who plays Amy Pond on Doctor Who, I like redheads :D
     
  12. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    It would be surprising if Grant's ankle is not 100%. Owens played with the same injury in the Championship game with Philly only ~6 wks after surgery. While Grant isn't a great back, he's very solid and I'd be surprised if he isn't kept.

    In general, it is now impossible to argue with TT's method of building a team. Nobody is happier than I am with his success, as I've always admired the way he goes about his business.
     
  13. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It breaks my heart but I fear Jenkins will be leaving us. I think Grant will stay. Why in the hell would they want to release Grant? The combo of Grant, Starks, Kuhn and Jackson (yes keep him, he is good for picking up short yardage and 3rd down convos) is going to give us a nearly unstoppable running game next year. The only thing I fear is the Pack are not big on the running game to begin with. Hopefully with this talent level, we will see a change in that philosophy. Jones is up in the air.

    To address the original concern of this thread, I don't really have an issue with the philosophy or methodology of the Packers drafting and maintaining "deep rosters". If anyone had any doubts, it would of ended at the end of this season with the Packers left holding the Lombardi trophy. Something is got to be working. You don't just do that by sheer dumb luck. T.T. know what he is going. He is careful of who to draft (Matthews) and who not to draft (Moss), despite criticism he may take for his choices. I think he is more capable of building a SB team than any of us ever could of imagined.

    The real question is can we maintain it? Can we build upon our dynasty? I think the answer to that is YES!!! I have the same faith that this team can win and continue to win SBs as I had from game 1 and throughout this season. I only see this team improving and expounding upon an already existing epic team. Let us look to the future with hope and have faith that our leaders will get us there. If you have any doubts or questions about drafting or rosters, just look back at this season. Even our backups are capable of taking us to a SB win. That is huge in itself. It shows the true depth of our roster, with 15 guys or IR, we still won the SB. In T.T. we trust!
     
  14. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Nope. I expect Jenkins, Jones and Jackson to wind up somewhere else. All are free agents this year.

    With Jenkins, we have a TON of depth, we really don't need him. Sure our pass rush might take a slight hit next year, but in two years it will be back to what it is this season. Let's not forget we have Mike Neal and Johnny Jolly returning, CJ Wilson got a ton of experience last season and Howard Green was able to join us mid-season and step right up. DE is one position where we have a TON of options.

    I expect us to take a WR in rounds 2 or 3 to replace Jones. Jordy and Brett Swain will step up, we'll still have Driver and Jennings too. Not to mention Finley will be back and Quarless will have another year of development. This is an area where we also have options.

    I'd like to keep Jackson, because I think he's a great blocker on those third downs and the guy's pretty good in the screen game. Unfortunately I see him going elsewhere, but like everything else, we still have options. Starks showed he's not afraid to block when needed last season, Nance will have another season under his belt and I expect us to retain Kuhn.

    As for Grant, I honestly don't know. $5.5 Million in salary and bonuses is a lot, but he's a consistent 1200 yard per season producer. He could have some trade value, which I wouldn't be opposed to, but I think I'd rather keep him for the year with Starks as his backup.
     
  15. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Those are all good points, though I expect Bradshaw will be retained by the Giants. Benson will probably go elsewhere.

    As I understand it, Grants injury was fully healed to the point where he could have played in week 14 or thereabouts. Problem is, with a week 1 injury, you just have no idea what to expect from the rest of the season.

    Agreed on Ted not picking up any free agents. We have a lot of pending contracts needing to be signed, so we really shouldn't get our hopes up about chasing big name super stars. It's not like we need to be that active anyway. Hopefully fans remember we won the Super Bowl without chasing after high priced free agents or trading away draft picks.
     
  16. 98Redbird

    98Redbird Cheesehead

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    If you would have presented this to me a year ago and asked how I felt, I'd be right there with ya. I'd be angry and pissed and want to kill Ted Thompson for the things he does.

    ... Not so much this year.

    I'm actually not really concerned with what they do this off-season with trades, acquisitions, who they let walk, etc. I'll pay attention, but I won't get mad or upset over it. They've proven they know more than me, so why get irritated or worry?

    JMO
     
  17. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I suppose, like a lot of folks, I'm resistant to change. In the past 5 years these guys were gone;

    Henderson, Green, Favre, Franks, Havner, Harris, Kampman, Gbaja-Biamilla, Robinson, Chillar, and Montgomery to name a few.

    In hindsight, it is clearly evident why they were released. But at the time it made me nervous each time. There were good reasons to see each one off, but again, at the time I had questions.

    We know Ted Thompson doesn't often deal big in the free agent market. Yet, it is self evident that his method of building from the draft works. But still, don't most of us look at some of these free agents floating around and say; "Boy, we could have used him"?

    So it's a combination of the two that is un-nerving to me. We say goodbye to proven commodities and buy unproven youth who seem to rise to the occasion. It is successful, but almost anti intuitive to me.

    That's probably why I'm not an NFL manager.
     
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    croak, trust in the system :)

    And remember we have some big $ contracts to give out soon and need to have the cap space for it.
     
  19. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Yup. We simply can't sign everyone and in the next season or two we'll need money for Finley, Sitton, Nelson, and Jennings. We'll also need to start working on extensions for Matthews and Raji, plus who knows who else. It would be nice if we could keep most everyone, but the simple reality is we need to continue to draft, develop and replace.
     
  20. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm usually the glass is half full guy. But how he manages this team is almost magic to me. :sweating::sweating::sweating::sweating:
     
  21. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Read "The Packer Way" by Ron Wolf as told to Paul Attner. Ted has been following the general plan of attack that Wolf used in rebuilding the Packers in the early 90's...and why wouldn't he?...he was Wolf's right hand man.

    I read the book right as it was released and as Ted was "going through his progressions" so to speak, it was pretty obvious how he was attacking rebuilding the Packers in the mid 2000's.

    Incidentally ... congratulations to the entire organization...and to us fans. I'm happy we didn't have to wait 29 years again. :happy0005:
     
  22. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Hopefully Ted is grooming someone else to take his place. I know he was contemplating retiring and serving as an area scout in Texas before signing an extension, so hopefully he'll have someone primed and ready to take his place when he does.
     
  23. Croak

    Croak Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I have "The Packer Way". Because I was in a position of leadership and I was reading it for leadership principles, I must have missed his discussions regarding the philosophy of the draft and free agents. I'll have to go back and read it again, now that I am semi-retired.

    I do remember the Wolf said he was looking only for players that really wanted to be a Packer. If they were indifferent or lukewarm about being on the team, he'd show them the door. He wanted folks totally committed to the organization.
     
  24. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I read it in spite of the fact that I was in position of leadership. :blink: I read it at the recommendation of a boyhood friend who now sits on the Pack's Executive Committee (he didn't at that time though)...said that it gives you a real fine insight into how the guy's mind worked. I had no intention of implementing anything into my day-to-day, it was just a good read.
     
  25. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    I hear what you are saying. I'm not completely sold on all the moves that TT has made over the last few years and felt that there were area's that should have been left alone or should have been taken care of sooner. For instance he should have tried his hardest to keep Ryan Longwell the guy is going to be the next Gary Anderson and keep kicking till he's 50.

    Other guys were getting up there in age and had contracts that they just couldn't carry anymore. Henderson, KGB, Green were all getting to the end of their careers and the Packers just couldn't afford to keep them around.

    Other guys just didn't fit into the system that the Packers were running like Kampman, or just weren't producing like they should have been (Franks).

    some of these guys were great and fan favorites, I understand being attached to them, but it is a business and some of them needed to move on for the Team to get better.

    There are still wholes and they need to be address, but this team is on the upswing for the long term and shouldn't be a one year wonder team.
     

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