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Scout Inc take on Ted Thompson

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by porky88, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft07/insider/news/story?id=2823965

    If you are a member of insider you can see what they say about everyone. For nice words about Thompson in my opinion.
     
  2. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Pretty positive and encouraging stuff. The question is if they can make it translate into success on the football field.
     
  3. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    It always takes some time to see the results of their work. I think this coming year will show dividends for past drafts.
    I don't think Favre would have stuck around if he also didn't feel like they could do some real damage this year.
     
  4. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    thats exactly right, nothing matters but what happens on the field in the long run. but ithink this is positive and encouraging to people who think TT is incapable of running a team because its not what they want. he knows what he is doing. it seems to me that everyone from players to coaches to scouts to Ted seem to be on an even keel steady approach to long term success rather than all eggs in one topsy turvy basket. But like you said Lare... wether or not it translates to the field is to be determined in due time.
     
  5. nathaniel

    nathaniel Cheesehead

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    I've been wary of TT during the off season so far, but I've gotten over the initial shock of watching all the decent free agents walk right by us. TT seems to have some kind of plan, and we all know he loves the draft. Its nice to know we still have all that cap room and TT must have a lot of confidence in our current roster. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens come draft day.
     
  6. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    I expect that TT will have me throwing (soft) things at my TV set on the 28th. I'll expect impact players and I'll get "what the hell good will HE do for us?" type choices. But when the dust clears, I'll settle down and hope for the best. I have been guilty of unfounded euphoria due to our final 4 games last year. Now I recall how damned bad we looked before those games, and that sobers me up fast. We are NOT an 8-8 team yet, IMO. A true 8-8 team can upset ANY other team occasionally or at least make contending teams sweat in the 4th quarter. We are NOT that team yet. IMO, we've actually regressed somewhat during the FA period when you consider losses vs. gains. But like any Packer fan, I expect much better play this year, because to feel otherwise would be disrespectful to our heros. After all, the GOOD guys always win in the end, don't they?
     
  7. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Good post bud, but you may not want to tell it how it is around here
     
  8. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    good post, don't listen to pyle.
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Good post grandpa...They only thing i would add is the final 4 game part..they looked like they finally knew what was needed to be done in those last 4 games, where as in those nasty blow outs it seemed like they didnt have a clue..

    So while one could say they werent a "true 8-8 team", they also could say the last 4 games they really started to get it...

    *** but how can one say they arent an 8-8 team? that was their record was it not?***
     
  10. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    The only problem I have with any of this is this: We beat crappy teams to get to 8-8, with the exception of the Bears. I accept that, we got spanked by a couple of playoff teams. We also lost a couple that statistically we should have won. So what were we?

    Pyle, in the past, you and I and good ole Depack argued about the quality of the Sherman led team records. Now I contended that we were not as good as our records because of the weak teams in our division. And the reason I would say this is because when we ran into a good team, we would get spanked.

    Now take off your TT hatred glasses, and explain to me the differences in beating crappy teams for an over inflated record, or beating crappy teams to get to 8-8.
     
  11. mi_keys

    mi_keys Cheesehead

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    At least we, in general, beat the crappy teams. We should have beaten Buffalo and St. Louis but they were at least in the middle third in the league last year. As for the original post, I think TT's drafting will pan out like those positive remarks would suggest.
     
  12. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    You just answered your own question. So we played 10 crappy teams in 04? I would bet, without looking it up, that we never had 1 year under Sherman where we only beat 1 team with a winning record.
     
  13. mi_keys

    mi_keys Cheesehead

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    2004
    10-6
    wins against Carolina (7-9), Detroit twice (6-10), Dallas (6-10), Washington (6-10), Minnesota twice (8-8), Houston (7-9), St. Louis (8-8), and Chicago (5-11)


    2005
    4-12
    wins against New Orleans (3-13), Detroit (5-11), Atlanta (8-8), and Seattle (13-3)


    His last two years combined he had one win against a team with a winning record (which was also in the finally game of the season, in which Seattle rested their starters shortly after Alexander got the touchdown record). He also had three embarassing losses to teams with losing records in '04--Chicago (5-11), New York (6-10), and Tennessee (5-11)--as well as four in '05--Detroit (5-11), Cleveland (6-10), Philadelphia (6-10), and Baltimore (6-10).

    McCarthy only has one loss thus far against a team with a losing record--Buffalo (7-9).


    Now, maybe McCarthy and TT won't get it done but so far at least they haven't f---ed up nearly as much with bad teams as Sherman did his last two years.
     
  14. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Thanks for the research, but my point isn't about who's right or wrong, but moreso what is relative in football. You can be 10-6 and win your division, but may still not be a very good football team. The 04 Packers were not a good team yet TT is denegrated daily in here for tearing it down. Why?
     
  15. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    I do not denigrate TT(although I often question his attitude towards FA) I was very impressed with the 06 draft. This year we have hopes of filling weak spots on the team but so much depends on who the teams ahead of us pick. Personally, I'd like to see us trade down with the Patriots for their 2-1st rd. picks. In those spots we can get real "football" players, though not necessarily "playmakers". In any case, I believe this draft will determine how astute, how sharp TT really is. It will also tell us why he has held onto all that cap money.
     
  16. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    I think his biggest problem with all of us fans is his absolute poker face he uses all the time. I'm kind of wondering though if that is not really the best way to go.
     
  17. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    The biggest void between TT backers vs. TT haters has been the state of the team when he arrived which, in turn, defines the job he had in front of him and how he has done since he got here.

    I am in the camp of those who feel we did not have a very good football team when he got here. We had slid in personnel and performance for at least four years prior to him getting in town.

    We were getting older but certainly not better and there was just nothing there that indicated we should continue down the same path we had been on. Certainly not if the goal is the Super Bowl.

    All one had to do was look at the depth chart TT was looking at when he got here to know how much work had to be done. Depth chart? What depth? We didn't have any.

    I get a kick out of those that say he should get two years or three years to do something. Every GM walks inot a different situation and in some cases, like ours, we should feel FORTUNATE we are heading back upwards in the right direction after a few years of retooling.

    This guy took a lot of heat for passing on Wahle, Rivera, and Flanny but he SAW what he SAW and it was the right move because we weren't winning no conference title or no SB back then anyways and we would be looking for a whole new offensive line about now and NOBODY would be talking about the Pack as an up and coming team to look out for.

    Let the guy do his damn job. He's only had about fifteen positions or more to address when you consider how thin we were all over the place plus kickers and rotten special teams. Some of us get the fact that's like THREE ROMES and the first one wasn't built in a day.

    THANK YOU TT for not coming in here and hanging on to an aging pipe dream and having the guts to make some tough calls and take the heat and having the semblence of a plan and a clue of how to draft.

    TT and MM have more conviction and faith in their little finger in what they are doing and who they have doing it than the previous regime had in their entire bodies.

    For those that don't understand the importance of that, well, it's everything.
     
  18. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    BRA FREAKIN VO

    very well put.
     
  19. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    First let me say, that I am on board with your view that the roster was in need of retooling and our depth had been depleted very thin. You will get no argument there from me. We were aging and changes had to be made. We were going to have to rebuild one way or another. But to me that is where some contention comes in.

    People say how a keen eye for talent that Ted has. What is the basis of that thinking at this moment? The 2005 draft? How many starters are here from that draft?

    2005
    Rd Sel# Player Pos. School
    1 24 Aaron Rodgers QB California
    2 51 Nick Collins FS Bethune-Cookman
    2 58 Terrence Murphy WR Texas A&M
    4 115 Marviel Underwood SS San Diego State
    4 125 Brady Poppinga OLB Brigham Young
    5 143 Junius Coston T North Carolina A&T
    5 167 Michael Hawkins CB Oklahoma
    6 180 Mike Montgomery DE Texas A&M
    6 195 Craig Bragg WR UCLA
    7 245 Kurt Campbell LB Albany, N.Y.
    7 246 William Whitticker G Michigan State.

    Five are still on the roster, Collins had a decent first year and struggled, jury is still out on him. Poppinga, struggled early and played better as the year went on. Rogers, no idea. Underwood amd Murphy got hurt. But the rest certainly didn't build depth.

    2006, we had to force rookies into the starting lineup and I will give him a glowing report so far on that class. One year and I am impressed.

    Now lets look at his attempts at FA...

    Klemm, O'Dwyer, Little, Freeman. Hmm the 2005 Free agent class did alot for us. 2006 FA class, Woodson was a terrific signing as well as Pickett was. How did the Manuel signing work out for us?

    Keeping our own players... Barrnett and Kampman, those were huge. Jenkins looks very good as well. He difused the Harris issue, all give him great marks. But the huge money given to Bubba has panned out so well either. Walker was the playmaker we needed, but he wasn't able to keep him in Green and Gold.

    And you have to account for the fact that with the New CBA clause and the record increases in Cap room, he had the benefit of money to work with. If you haven't well then you better look at the Pickett and Woodson deal again. He wouldn't have been able to frontload the contracts as he did. Same for Barnett. Andrew and Ted have DONE A VERY NICE JOB taking advantage of that. No doubt about it.

    With alll the above said, what has Ted proven to us so far? Have their been improvement, ABSOLUTELY. Has he shown to us the fans that we should have complete faith in him, NO. Are we heading in the right direction, Indicators point to YES, but TIME WILL TELL.

    I want the Packers to win, and Ted is driving this franchise, so I hope that everything he touches turns to gold. But to chastise us for having an wait and see attitude on Ted and THE PLAN, I am sorry I have a right as a shareholder and fan of the Packers to do so.
     
  20. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    Warhawk, that's the best thread of the month.
     
  21. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Pack93z,

    TT's thinking in the '05 draft was fairly clear to read and it's hard to argue the reasoning.

    I'm not even sure he was jumping up and down when ARod fell in our laps but with BF not saying one way or the other what he was going to do there really was no other choice.

    I would say having a first round backup QB is a little more comforting than what a lot of teams have to work with. Will he work out when he becomes a starter? Who knows? He's a quarterback for crying out loud. No one knows.
    The next four guys could all be considered starters or solid backups and you cannot fault TT for injury. With our WR and Safety concerns I WISH Murphy were still here and Underwood is going to help this team. He's too good to sit.

    The last six guys were 5th round and up picks and while you hope to find a gem in there you know there is a reason they lasted that long. If the teams backups and starters consist of many 5th rounders and up the reality of it is we probably aren't very good.

    I prefer the 3rd round Hodge type backups. That's starting to get quality depth right there.

    The picks were not necessarily bad picks and we could be stronger right now in a couple areas of weakness if injuries didn't play a role with a couple of these guys.

    Certainly nothing here that makes me concerned he can't read talent. A couple of guys from the 5th round on that would have stuck would be nice but if that's the worst he does?
     
  22. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Warhawk-

    All the I am trying to say, is during his time at GM here in Green Bay, I can't say I am totally awe struck with the talent he has brought in. From the 05' draft, to Free Agents, to the street FA aquistions. Now I am not blinded with distain for Ted. He has made some very good moves, but to me, this is going to be the telling year. Does his 06 class take another step or do they fall back like the 05 class did. Remember Will Witticker started the entire year in 05, and was cut. Does the coaching staff take another step. Do we grow and become more competitive with the elite teams. Do I expect to win every game this year, no, but I do expect growth.

    Do I have hope, most definately for the future of the Packers. Am I clammering for a big Free agent signing, not really. Am I like other concerned with the total youth movement without some veteran depth to lean on, yes yes I am. A Corey Dillion for example doesn't have to be a long to plan, but I would love to have him at least in camp to show some of the youngsters the way.

    There was no doubt the rookies played well last year and developed, but they struggled at times as well. Maybe the options weren't there last year at the Oline. Okay, we survived a season on a gamble of three rookie lineman playing prodominate roles. So now with cap room to not repeat that gamble, what does it appear like we are headed for? Gambling on a backfield of young players with no veterans again. After Driver, has anyone proven that they can play week in and out; and stay healthy? I am happy has heck that he added Walker to the CB spot, it gives us another veteran that can play if needed.

    All that said, I like were we are headed and am hopeful that it turns out. Potential is alround us, but so was it with some of Sherman's picks. And we all know how they turned out. So why should we not question Ted's moves and direction. It doesn't mean that I don't support him and the team. It is just I am not sold on him until he guides us back to the promise land.

    My definition of the promise land, to have a chance to win each and every game on the schedule. He can't do anymore than that, but to put us in a position to be competitive in every game. And currently, we are not there yet IMO.
     
  23. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Again, if you look at TT's plan to get to the point of being competitive in every game, by the method of building thru the draft, we are already on a fast track.

    We may not QUITE be there where we go toe to toe with every team but getting closer.

    The point is that by doing it this way it may take a year or two longer but we don't risk getting there for one year and then falling off the competitve face of the earth.

    TT's got the bulk of the talent on this team tucked aside for the next several years and now the tweaking can begin. Don't give up yet. It's a long way before the first game.

    For me it's refreshing to see a plan that keeps these guys together vs. shipping them in and out like cattle which seems to happen to teams chasing FA's looking for instant results. For every big name they sign they lose three. No thanks.

    Last year we opened against the Bears who happened to bring back all 22 guys from the prior year vs. us who started like five rookies and eight new players total.

    We got our butts handed to us. THIS YEAR it's US that has most everybody back. I expect a war.

    I believe we will give them all the competition they want.
     
  24. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    I agree that we should take another step this year with all the experience and promise that some of the rookies made last year. No doubt, but that is why I think this is a telling year for Ted & Company. Coaching staff has remained static, the roster minus RB & Safety (Manuel) should be back. So to me, this is the benchmark year for Ted. Does HIS players and coaches take another step forward? That is all, this is the litmus test in my opinion, is he taking us in the right direction. Ya or Na.

    To me, San Diego and Denver are two key games, do we play with them and are competitive or do we get the game handed to us like the Patriot game last year.
     

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