Packers vs Giants Game Thread: Monday Night Raw Football Edition

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I have seen this team turn the ball over on possible game winning drives a couple of times leading me to not share your confidence that they can score at will. We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Though I am relatively certain that the clock does not run on point after touchdowns of any kind. So I got that going for me.
Ok 11 possible attempts. Any 3 of which could’ve run the clock down under :30 sec easy.
That’s the thing. We didn’t need to score at will. We needed a 1st down including eating 1:00 minute+ of game clock. We had 2 Timeouts and we certainly aren’t kicking a FG so you don’t save them for Teams.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe we’re scared to death of getting 1.33 yards per play to set us up for a Win and leave them in the desert with no Petro. That’s pretty scary.. almost terrifying
PS. Speaking of scared out if my boots.. The Vikings are bordering on terrifying! Do you think there’s any chance the Vikings would allow us to surrender the Wildcard? I’m scared to ask. They look very menacing :coffee::eek:

You’re not really scared of the Vikings please tell me that was a joke? If not.. get out if my Bunker @Schultz! :roflmao:
 
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chemist

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Have any kickers missed FGs or XPs against the Packers? Asking for a friend. For instance the N.O. kicker missed a FG vs. GB. So in your hypotheticals that should be a loss for GB. I also believe the Giants kicker missed a FG in the game, if he makes his and Carlson makes his GB still loses. Unless in your world only our kicker has to be perfect. By my quick analysis if all kickers make all of their kicks which you seem to be advocating then the Pack are 6-6 pending OT with Pitt.
 

chemist

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Have any kickers missed FGs or XPs against the Packers? Asking for a friend. For instance the N.O. kicker missed a FG vs. GB. So in your hypotheticals that should be a loss for GB. I also believe the Giants kicker missed a FG in the game, if he makes his and Carlson makes his GB still loses. Unless in your world only our kicker has to be perfect. By my quick analysis if all kickers make all of their kicks which you seem to be advocating then the Pack are 6-6 pending OT with Pitt.
Always nice to have opposing views to keep things in balance and you do make a good point.
However it still doesn't change the fact that Carlson is inconsistent and is one of the worst kickers in the NFL based on stats above.
I also wanted to try to keep things in balance because I've read a ton of negative posts regarding the packers and very few positive ones.
I do appreciate your comments but I still stand behind my view that they are a growing team gaining experience each week but Carlson is our weakest link.
 

Heyjoe4

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Always nice to have opposing views to keep things in balance and you do make a good point.
However it still doesn't change the fact that Carlson is inconsistent and is one of the worst kickers in the NFL based on stats above.
I also wanted to try to keep things in balance because I've read a ton of negative posts regarding the packers and very few positive ones.
I do appreciate your comments but I still stand behind my view that they are a growing team gaining experience each week but Carlson is our weakest link.
Interesting takes from you and Schultz on Carlson. What are his stats YTD as far as FG% and missed PATs? I admit I'm nervous anytime the guy lines up to kick, especially on PATs. Schultz makes a good point that all kickers miss, ideally in about the same proportion.

If Carlson's numbers are that bad, especially at FG%, then he certainly could be the worst kicker in football. I do know without looking that it's a crap shoot on PATs. Even kicking from 35 yards out, FG% should be close to 100%, certainly no less than 95%. Just my opinion and not backed by stats.
 

Heyjoe4

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That would not have left any less time. And in all likelihood would have given us one less chance for the TD. Though I would not have had a problem with doing that.
Did the Giants use any of their TOs on that last drive? They used one on the FG.

As far as running the clock down so that the opponent has very little time to move into FG position, yeah that's ideal. But scoring the TD in the first place is most important.

Finally, is it too big an ask of a solid defense to hold an opponent out of FG range from the opponents' 25 with 1:30 to play? I don't think so. But playing man was a mistake that helped the Giants execute the big play needed. That one I'll pin on Barry. He rarely uses zone/man properly IMO.
 

tynimiller

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The stats for Carlson are all available and have been shared folks. 80% on FGA - only misses are 40+ yarders and on XPs he is 88.9% which is worst out of main kickers in the NFL.
 

Heyjoe4

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The stats for Carlson are all available and have been shared folks. 80% on FGA - only misses are 40+ yarders and on XPs he is 88.9% which is worst out of main kickers in the NFL.
Thanks Ty. I was too lazy to look it up. 80% on FGs with only misses of 40+ seems ok. The PAT numbers are atrocious.
 

chemist

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Interesting takes from you and Schultz on Carlson. What are his stats YTD as far as FG% and missed PATs? I admit I'm nervous anytime the guy lines up to kick, especially on PATs. Schultz makes a good point that all kickers miss, ideally in about the same proportion.

If Carlson's numbers are that bad, especially at FG%, then he certainly could be the worst kicker in football. I do know without looking that it's a crap shoot on PATs. Even kicking from 35 yards out, FG% should be close to 100%, certainly no less than 95%. Just my opinion and not backed b
 

chemist

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Someone in this thread posted all the currents stats for kickers a few posts back. All laid out nice and neat from all different distances. 20-29, 30-39 etc.
As I recall he was ranked anywhere from 24th -26th or 27th thru all the different distances.
Missing a FG here and there can happen to anyone especially if the weather is bad, or very windy etc. I accept that. But missing ex pts...
You should be at least 95- 100% on those. In close games you need every point you can get.
I don't trust this guy especially since he mostly had a 70% success rate in college on FGs. I don't know why the packers picked him up.
 

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Always nice to have opposing views to keep things in balance and you do make a good point.
However it still doesn't change the fact that Carlson is inconsistent and is one of the worst kickers in the NFL based on stats above.
I also wanted to try to keep things in balance because I've read a ton of negative posts regarding the packers and very few positive ones.
I do appreciate your comments but I still stand behind my view that they are a growing team gaining experience each week but Carlson is our weakest link.
I'd say our run defense is a weaker link than Carlson. Ball security and penalties across the 13 games has been weaker than Carlson as well imo.
 

Schultz

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Always nice to have opposing views to keep things in balance and you do make a good point.
However it still doesn't change the fact that Carlson is inconsistent and is one of the worst kickers in the NFL based on stats above.
I also wanted to try to keep things in balance because I've read a ton of negative posts regarding the packers and very few positive ones.
I do appreciate your comments but I still stand behind my view that they are a growing team gaining experience each week but Carlson is our weakest link.
FTR. I was against the draft pick of Carlson. Nothing has happened to change that. I think the Packer FO is as surprised as anyone where they currently sit in the standings. Since he is the kicker I am fine with them riding with him and his gaining experience. IMO he does have to get better though.
 

PikeBadger

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MLF should have run the jet sweep to Reed. Accomplishes 2 things. 1. Eats up some clock. 2. Makes the Giants think there's no way this guy is going to call that play again on the 2 pt. try.
Dillon is probably our best ball security guy. I'd have gone with him at the 6 yard line with an audible option to Kraft or Sims on a bootleg option if they jammed the middle.
 

PikeBadger

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FTR. I was against the draft pick of Carlson. Nothing has happened to change that. I think the Packer FO is as surprised as anyone where they currently sit in the standings. Since he is the kicker I am fine with them riding with him and his gaining experience. IMO he does have to get better though.
All the rookies and 2nd year players need to get better. I don't know how much responsibility for missed kicks goes to snapper and holder. I think Carlson gets a second year for sure.
 

Schultz

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Dillon is probably our best ball security guy. I'd have gone with him at the 6 yard line with an audible option to Kraft or Sims on a bootleg option if they jammed the middle.
Boy I wish there was a sarcasm button. My post was more to poke fun at MLF for continuing to give Reed the ball on run plays than anything else.
 

PikeBadger

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Boy I wish there was a sarcasm button. My post was more to poke fun at MLF for continuing to give Reed the ball on run plays than anything else.
Probably went to Reed too often I agree. We should have guys like Wicks and Toure that can run some of the gadgets as well.
 

Heyjoe4

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I'd say our run defense is a weaker link than Carlson. Ball security and penalties across the 13 games has been weaker than Carlson as well imo.
I'll add finishing off drives as a weakness, well at least Monday night. Carlson connected on three FGs and missed one. But if even one of those FG drives ends up a TD, the Packers win.

To be fair, they seemed to be finishing drives pretty well. It was a bigger problem last year with Rodgers, I think. But clearly they could have done better on Monday.
 
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As far as running the clock down so that the opponent has very little time to move into FG position, yeah that's ideal. But scoring the TD in the first place is most important.
Thank you for that. So there’s a balanced approach that applies.

How you score in a tight game is everything.

This concept of using clock is not new. Almost every week multiple teams use the clock to their advantage. Mike Vrabel, Mike Tomlin, Andy Reid and Bill Belichek are some of the best at it. Our staff has not been good compared to what I see around the league. The clock can be your best friend or worst enemy, but ignoring it isn’t the answer. No, The clock is not going to erase a 3 score deficit. However paying close attention can win a close game or get a team back into a game.

There is almost nothing worse for your opponent mentally than being bled by the clock. Ask Bill Belichick he’s lived it first hand. We’ve lived it to a degree when teams Run on us and then score as TD after sucking 9 minutes off the clock. It’s no less important in the final 2-minutes.

Sad part is we ran 2 plays for 8 yards and stopped the clock twice immediately for a total of :10 seconds. Taylor’s mistake staying in bounds was miniscule in comparison to Matt’s mistake inside 2 minutes and in complete control imo. We relinquished control of this game and it cost us dearly. My guess is different coaches value that clock differently just like fans obviously do as seen in here. I’m 100% sure that Mike Vrabel or Tomlin use a running play mixed in on 2nd n 4 with 2:00 left and 2 Timeouts. Pete Carroll wouldn’t he ignores his Power running back in short yardage, just ask Marshawn Lynch. It’s ok it only cost us 1 game here, it cost Seattle a Super Bowl
 
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Heyjoe4

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Boy I wish there was a sarcasm button. My post was more to poke fun at MLF for continuing to give Reed the ball on run plays than anything else.
Well I wouldn't even call it poking fun at MLF for being so ****ing predictable. He ran those jet sweeps every game with Watson last year (well, when Watson was healthy). It seemed like Watson was only capable of 1) beating his defender with speed on long go routes when the safety was playing up and 2) the jet sweep. This year Reed is handling the jet sweeps with Watson constantly injured - and it's too damn predictable.

As for Watson, even first year receiver Wicks has a better route tree. And it's all in the footwork at the LOS. Seems like Watson exclusively relies on speed rather than release. Even the go routes would be ok if he could use his height on jump balls, but he doesn't do that regularly or well, and his catching is still suspect (but better).

And I agree with Pike that when it was first and goal on their last drive, Dillon would have been a better choice. That might be predictable too, but if the line executes their blocks, Dillon will get the TD or get the ball closer. He's actually having a pretty good year after a shaky start.
 

chemist

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I'll add finishing off drives as a weakness, well at least Monday night. Carlson connected on three FGs and missed one. But if even one of those FG drives ends up a TD, the Packers win.

To be fair, they seemed to be finishing drives pretty well. It was a bigger problem last year with Rodgers, I think. But clearly they could have done better on Monday.
I still believe Carlson is way under performing as evidenced by his terrible ranking as a place kicker. In fact it seems to me he is getting worse as the season progresses.
He is also the only guy on the team that when he steps on the field there are points to be gotten at that exact moment. Whenever an opportunity comes your way to score points you have to get them If you want to be a contender.
We all know games can be lost by one bad play, a dropped pass on 3rd down, a missed FG etc that can derail any momentum a team had and suck the life out of the team.
This guy has been consistently missing XPts and FGs on a regular basis and that has cost us.
 

Heyjoe4

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Dillon is probably our best ball security guy. I'd have gone with him at the 6 yard line with an audible option to Kraft or Sims on a bootleg option if they jammed the middle.
Agreed, and who would have been looking for Sims to get the ball if Love audibles? He's still a bit of a secret to opposing Ds. Kraft as well.
 

Heyjoe4

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I still believe Carlson is way under performing as evidenced by his terrible ranking as a place kicker. In fact it seems to me he is getting worse as the season progresses.
He is also the only guy on the team that when he steps on the field there are points to be gotten at that exact moment. Whenever an opportunity comes your way to score points you have to get them If you want to be a contender.
We all know games can be lost by one bad play, a dropped pass on 3rd down, a missed FG etc that can derail any momentum a team had and suck the life out of the team.
This guy has been consistently missing XPts and FGs on a regular basis and that has cost us.
Don't get me wrong, I agree about Carlson and the many misses. I was only pointing out that his three FGs could have been a lot more if MLF and Love keep those drives alive.

Personally, I find the missed PATs to be the worst. Everyone gets excited with a TD, and then a routine chip shot goes wide or doinks back into the end zone and the air goes out of the ol momentum balloon. Seems they can do better in the kicker dept, especially with Carlson's underwhelming college numbers.

And wasn't one large complaint against Crosby his lack of distance on kickoffs? Carlson is hardly doing better.
 

tynimiller

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I still believe Carlson is way under performing as evidenced by his terrible ranking as a place kicker. In fact it seems to me he is getting worse as the season progresses.
He is also the only guy on the team that when he steps on the field there are points to be gotten at that exact moment. Whenever an opportunity comes your way to score points you have to get them If you want to be a contender.
We all know games can be lost by one bad play, a dropped pass on 3rd down, a missed FG etc that can derail any momentum a team had and suck the life out of the team.
This guy has been consistently missing XPts and FGs on a regular basis and that has cost us.

So there isn't a need to speculate on things easily confirmed, his stats break down as follows - I broke them into three game groupings (last one four of course) since we are 13 games in:

First 3 Games of the year : 3 FGA and 3 FGM (2 30-39 and 1 50+) also went 9 for 9 on XPs
Games 4-6 : 6 FGA and 5 FGM (2 20-29yds / 2 30-39yds / 1 40-49yds and 1 over 50...he missed one of the 40-49) and 3 XP for 3 XP
Games 7-9 : 6 FGA and 5 FGM (2 20-29yds / 3 30-39yds / 1 40-49...miss was the 40-49) and he went 4 for 5 XP
Games 10-13 : 10 FGA and 7 FGM (1 20-29yds / 2 30-39yds / 5 40-49yds / 2 50+yds....he missed 1 40-49 and both 50+) and went 8 for 10 on XPs


Season total
20 for 25 on FGs with only missing being of the over 40 yard variety.
24 of 27 on XPs
 
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If Reed is too predictable running then someone shouldve told NY. They allowed Reed 4 rushes for 36 yards and a TD. Take out his long and TD run, you still get 3 Rushes for 18 yards ( 6 per) Truthfully looking back, I might’ve tried that 4 more times.
 

chemist

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So there isn't a need to speculate on things easily confirmed, his stats break down as follows - I broke them into three game groupings (last one four of course) since we are 13 games in:

First 3 Games of the year : 3 FGA and 3 FGM (2 30-39 and 1 50+) also went 9 for 9 on XPs
Games 4-6 : 6 FGA and 5 FGM (2 20-29yds / 2 30-39yds / 1 40-49yds and 1 over 50...he missed one of the 40-49) and 3 XP for 3 XP
Games 7-9 : 6 FGA and 5 FGM (2 20-29yds / 3 30-39yds / 1 40-49...miss was the 40-49) and he went 4 for 5 XP
Games 10-13 : 10 FGA and 7 FGM (1 20-29yds / 2 30-39yds / 5 40-49yds / 2 50+yds....he missed 1 40-49 and both 50+) and went 8 for 10 on XPs


Season total
20 for 25 on FGs with only missing being of the over 40 yard variety.
24 of 27 on XPs
Wow...that was alot of data to collect and collate. Nice job.
So his FG 20/25 is 80% which puts him in a tie with 2 others #20 in the rankings.
His Pat 24/27 is 89% which puts him last
 

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Someone in this thread posted all the currents stats for kickers a few posts back. All laid out nice and neat from all different distances. 20-29, 30-39 etc.
As I recall he was ranked anywhere from 24th -26th or 27th thru all the different distances.
Missing a FG here and there can happen to anyone especially if the weather is bad, or very windy etc. I accept that. But missing ex pts...
You should be at least 95- 100% on those. In close games you need every point you can get.
I don't trust this guy especially since he mostly had a 70% success rate in college on FGs. I don't know why the packers picked him up.
Has to be genetics (his brother). As you say, his college stats leave you scratching your head for a draftee -
Wow...that was alot of data to collect and collate. Nice job.
So his FG 20/25 is 80% which puts him in a tie with 2 others #20 in the rankings.
His Pat 24/27 is 89% which puts him last
He's 9/9 on FG from 30-39. Maybe they can rush him out for the XP and convince him it's really a 33 FG attempt?
 

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