Packers don’t want to use franchise tag on Jermichael Finley

[Greenbayphil]

Im glad they want to sign Finley, he had one bad season after coming off a season ending injury last year.
Plus with no offseason workouts to get into things no wonder he was rusty.

He will be fine next year, if not then I will eat my hat

 

[fettpett]

I'm not talking about the locker room. I'm talking about the spotlight ****** that they are. And the only reason 85 hasn't been hear from is because he sucks so bad he can barely get on the field, so at least he's a step above T.O.

BTW, if he was a problem in the locker room, you would see it in discontent among the players and it's simply not there. Rodgers wants him back. McCarthy wants him back. The evidence that he's a "problem" simply isn't there. It's utter nonsense.

Completely agree. There are too many people that look at his "talking" as disruptive, yet its not. EVERYONE on the team seems to like him, they are always complimenting him and each other. McCarthy has said on a number of occasions that he's not a problem and one of the hardest working guys on the team.

He had a major knee injury last year and wasn't playing up to snuff this year. That much was obvious. However he's still one of the best TE's in the league. Don't let the numbers fool you. Rodgers had Finely, Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Cobb, Jones, Kuhn, and others to throw to this year. He's not likely to put up Gronk type numbers, remember that Brady only has him and Welker to throw too that are threats. Every one of the Packers WR's and TE's are threats. Only 2 games this year did they fail to pick up the slack when others were failing.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Completely agree. There are too many people that look at his "talking" as disruptive, yet its not. EVERYONE on the team seems to like him, they are always complimenting him and each other. McCarthy has said on a number of occasions that he's not a problem and one of the hardest working guys on the team.

He had a major knee injury last year and wasn't playing up to snuff this year. That much was obvious. However he's still one of the best TE's in the league. Don't let the numbers fool you. Rodgers had Finely, Jennings, Nelson, Driver, Cobb, Jones, Kuhn, and others to throw to this year. He's not likely to put up Gronk type numbers, remember that Brady only has him and Welker to throw too that are threats. Every one of the Packers WR's and TE's are threats. Only 2 games this year did they fail to pick up the slack when others were failing.

I don't think his talking is a problem in the locker room, but it's more of a problem for fans. You read the Twitter posts and the interviews and start believing he's a top 3 tight end in the NFL. Then Sunday comes around and he's a ghost. It's hard to hear a guy brag and boast about himself and how great he is (YOTTO) and then watch him drop passes and/or not get open during a game.

There's a simple solution: "Put up or shut up"

 

[TJV]

That's a good point, JenningsLongCatch. The only thing I'd change in your post is the solution - I'd prefer he put up and shut up! I think McCarthy has made that point indirectly when he talks about Finley creating problems for himself but that is not the guy he sees in the locker room.

El Guapo, I didn't mean to infer there's something wrong with inferences. You are basing your opinion on an inference you have drawn from the actions taken by Thompson. My point was only that other equally valid (IMO) inferences can be drawn from those actions. I would like to see how you, and others who criticize Finley's attitude reconcile that criticism with what McCarthy said before and after this season about Finley's attitude.

 

[Kitten]

I don't think his talking is a problem in the locker room, but it's more of a problem for fans. You read the Twitter posts and the interviews and start believing he's a top 3 tight end in the NFL. Then Sunday comes around and he's a ghost. It's hard to hear a guy brag and boast about himself and how great he is (YOTTO) and then watch him drop passes and/or not get open during a game.

There's a simple solution: "Put up or shut up"

Good point. I don't care if they run their mouths as long as they back it up on the field.

 

[Bagadeez04]

The Flynn franchise tag talk is ridiculous. Even if it wasn't a huge risk, think about who the GM is for this team. He's not a gambler or a spender. TT won't take risks, he'll take a good deal over a great deal with high risks any day.

Secondly, TT was ready to let Finley walk, that's why he drafted THREE tight ends in the past two seasons, plus signed Crabtree as an UFA, making it four TEs brought on in the past two seasons. Why did he do this? To have a viable TE once Finley left. However, all of that changed when Quarless was lost for not just the 2011 season but a good portion of 2012. Now the Packers are left with a trio of TEs (Taylor, Williams, and Crabtree) who totaled a combined 9 receptions in 2011 for whopping 55 yards. Will TT let Rodgers go into the 2012 season without a legitimate TE? Maybe.

TT could sign Finley to a long-term deal if he doesn't see the growth in any of his current tight ends. Finley is still an elite receiver who had a non-elite contract season (that could work in our favor). If he doesn't see Finley as the answer and/or believes that his crop of tight ends will develop, TT would either slap the franchise tag on Finley to bridge the gap until Quarless comes back in 2013 or just let Finley walk.

My guess is that TT won't use the tag on anyone, as it doesn't fit his style. Finley will walk, everyone will complain, in 2012 or 2013 one of those tight ends will have a break-out season, and we will all forget about Jer-whats-his-name Finley.

Just thinking out loud here but let me ask you this. If TT doesn't use the Tag on Finley, why the hell wouldn't he explore "tag and trade"? I mean this is a guy who abhors free agnecy...this is a guy who is all about the Draft Draft Draft. That's what he lives and breathes. And here is an opportunity to get a quality pick or two for a guy who you have to let go anyway? Wouldn't he jump at the chance?

I know that a move like this doesn't seem like something TT is capable of doing...not his style and all...I get that arguement. I admit I don't know all the ins and outs of how a move like this would happen, but I think he has to be interested in this possibility. The big reason I could see this not happening is if Flynn doesn't go along with it...which is a real possibility.

 

[Alex]

He didn't have this dropping of his passes problem before he was injured. I am hoping this isn't permanent. I would hate to see him let go and tear it up with some other team. I say franchise tag him, give him a year to prove himself and if he can't produce like he is suppose to, let him go.

 

[El Guapo]

Sorry, but Finley is no T.O. or Chad 85 no matter how bad some people might want to portray him that way.

Wow you really like to twist things apart. Listen, you and I are both Finley fans. You seem to defend every little thing. When I point out some reasons why I think that the Packers will let him go, you post the statement above. No matter what I write, you believe that I have called him a TO or Chad Johnson. That's fine for you to believe but it's incorrect and a misrepresentation of my words.

Finley is a great player but that makes him untouchable in your eyes only.

 

[El Guapo]

If TT doesn't use the Tag on Finley, why the hell wouldn't he explore "tag and trade"?

There is merit to your question. Some GMs would certainly do it. Getting extra draft picks would intrigue TT. However, the downside is possibly getting stuck with Flynn and overpaying for a backup QB. I've read about people saying that TT could strike a deal, then tag him, then trade him. The problem is that the only certainty in that is the tag. Deals can and do fall through and it's a risk that I'm not sure TT would take. He's risk adverse in free agency, and that probably isn't just on the "getting" end but on the releasing end too.

 

[TJV]

In the 2008 off season DL Corey Williams was franchise tagged and could have signed a one-year guaranteed contract worth (according to one report) about $6.3M. At the end of February the Packers traded Williams to the Browns for their second round pick in the 2008 draft. I read one report that said Williams received a 6-year deal with about $16M in guaranteed money. The GM of the Packers when this tag-and-trade deal was done? You know who.

Obviously there is more money at stake tagging Flynn (but not Finley I believe). Thompson had no intention of paying Williams $6.3M and probably had an agreement with his agent so Corey wouldn't sign the offer. My only point here is Thompson has done a tag-and-trade before.

 

[bozz_2006]

Yes. What it's going to come down to is; will the Packers find a trade partner or not? If they know somebody will trade for him, they'll do the tagntrade. If they don't find a trade partner, they'll let him walk. Simple as that.

 

[GreenBlood]

He had a major knee injury last year and wasn't playing up to snuff this year.

Yet he still managed a "paltry" 55 catches for 767 yard and 8 TDs.

 

[GreenBlood]

I don't think his talking is a problem in the locker room, but it's more of a problem for fans. You read the Twitter posts and the interviews and start believing he's a top 3 tight end in the NFL. Then Sunday comes around and he's a ghost. It's hard to hear a guy brag and boast about himself and how great he is (YOTTO) and then watch him drop passes and/or not get open during a game.

There's a simple solution: "Put up or shut up"

Take any TE this year that had better stats than Finley did. Put him on the 2011 Packers. Not a single one of those guys are going to have anywhere near the stats they did elsewhere. Rodgers spreads the ball around and he has a plethora of targets to choose from. Put Finley on the Saints or Patriots and I'll bet you anything his stats would have been right there with Jimmy Graham or that idiot Gronkowski. How do you expect Finley to have 100 catches, 1200 yards and 15 TDs when we have so many targets to throw to?

 

[GreenBlood]

Wow you really like to twist things apart. Listen, you and I are both Finley fans. You seem to defend every little thing. When I point out some reasons why I think that the Packers will let him go, you post the statement above. No matter what I write, you believe that I have called him a TO or Chad Johnson. That's fine for you to believe but it's incorrect and a misrepresentation of my words.

Finley is a great player but that makes him untouchable in your eyes only.

You seem to think TT will cut him loose and has been planning to do so for some time because of "attitude problems". I just don't see it. But what I DO know for fact is that both Rodgers and McCarthy have said that they want him back, and that's all the evidence I need to demonstrate that he has NOT been a problem.

 

[GreenBlood]

There is merit to your question. Some GMs would certainly do it. Getting extra draft picks would intrigue TT. However, the downside is possibly getting stuck with Flynn and overpaying for a backup QB. I've read about people saying that TT could strike a deal, then tag him, then trade him. The problem is that the only certainty in that is the tag. Deals can and do fall through and it's a risk that I'm not sure TT would take. He's risk adverse in free agency, and that probably isn't just on the "getting" end but on the releasing end too.

No way TT will risk the embarrassment of paying a guy with 2 starts 50% more than the league MVP. Granted, as someone else said before, TT can rescind the tag if he wants, but then he looks like an idiot for wasting his 1 tag for the season while someone like Wells or Finley goes to another team. Once you use it, it's gone for the year. This tagging of Flynn simply isn't going to happen. I would bet my bottom dollar on it. He's probably going to end up in Miami where he'll have a successful career and TT will be satisfied with whatever compensation he gets, if any.

 

[GreenBlood]

In the 2008 off season DL Corey Williams was franchise tagged and could have signed a one-year guaranteed contract worth (according to one report) about $6.3M. At the end of February the Packers traded Williams to the Browns for their second round pick in the 2008 draft. I read one report that said Williams received a 6-year deal with about $16M in guaranteed money. The GM of the Packers when this tag-and-trade deal was done? You know who.

Obviously there is more money at stake tagging Flynn (but not Finley I believe). Thompson had no intention of paying Williams $6.3M and probably had an agreement with his agent so Corey wouldn't sign the offer. My only point here is Thompson has done a tag-and-trade before.

My counterpoint is that it wouldn't have been a problem had we been stuck with paying him the $6.3M. If we were to get stuck with the prospects of paying Flynn $14M, it's a big problem. If you rescind the tag, you just wasted your tag for nothing and Flynn goes on to sign with whomever he pleases anyway. Completely different situation with different risks.

If I'm the GM of another team and I'm looking to sign Flynn and TT tags him, I'm going to sit tight and call Ted's bluff until he rescinds the tag. Then when TT decides he's not going to pay Flynn $14M just to have him leave the following year, I'll sign Flynn as my QB and keep my draft picks. If Flynn wants to sign for more money with another team, it's not the end of the world. And that's why a tag and trade won't work with Flynn.

The only way a tag and trade with Flynn could work is if say the Dolphins call up Ted and say, "Look, I really want Flynn for my QB, but I'm really worried he's going to sign with the Browns. If you'll franchise him and trade him to us, I'll give you 3 draft picks." I don't see anyone doing that though. I doubt there are any GMs out there saying "I've GOT to have Flynn!"

 

[bozz_2006]

That's assuming there is but one team that really wants Flynn. Equally plausible is the possibility that two teams want him. Keeping this kind of thing under wraps is no easy task. If I'm a GM and I want Flynn, and I know there is at least one other GM who wants him too, I may not want to risk letting him get to the open market.

 

[ivo610]

I wonder how much aarons relationship with Jermichael will play into a possible deal during this offseason

 

[TJV]

Again GreenBlood, it would only be done if Thompson has an agreement with Flynn and his agent not to sign the tag. And if you're a GM who is hearing first hand from the HC you just hired that Flynn is a franchise QB, you may keep your draft picks and then lose out in a bidding war for Flynn's services. But that would be a crappy way to start your relationship with your new HC and you would risk losing "the answer" at the most important position in football, a guy who could help the HC teach the offense to the rest of team, for the price of a first or second round pick.

I'm certainly not predicting Thompson will do it, I'm just saying it's not outside the realm of possibility. Thompson may indeed be contemplating using the tag on Finley or Wells and he may think a third round comp pick is enough for Flynn. I'm not sure why you think there's a question of whether or not the Packers will receive any compensation for him. (IMO it's extremely unlikely the tag will be assigned and rescinded.) And BTW, paying Corey Williams $6.3M would have been a problem for Thompson: He didn't view Corey as a core player and paying him that much would have upset the salary structure on the DL at the time. But I'll bet your bottom dollar that was never at risk because they had an agreement Corey wouldn't sign it.

 

[GreenBlood]

That's assuming there is but one team that really wants Flynn. Equally plausible is the possibility that two teams want him. Keeping this kind of thing under wraps is no easy task. If I'm a GM and I want Flynn, and I know there is at least one other GM who wants him too, I may not want to risk letting him get to the open market.

I also know that no matter how well he played in them, 2 games isn't much to go on. I'm probably not going to give up draft picks for him based on 2 games. That's me though. I know there are some dumb GMs out there. Mike Sherman comes to mind. But if I'm TT, I'm going to make sure I have my TE and my C under contract before I even think about it.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Take any TE this year that had better stats than Finley did. Put him on the 2011 Packers. Not a single one of those guys are going to have anywhere near the stats they did elsewhere. Rodgers spreads the ball around and he has a plethora of targets to choose from. Put Finley on the Saints or Patriots and I'll bet you anything his stats would have been right there with Jimmy Graham or that idiot Gronkowski. How do you expect Finley to have 100 catches, 1200 yards and 15 TDs when we have so many targets to throw to?

My question to you would be this: Why did Finley not explode when Jennings was injured? Finley disappears too many times throughout games. Guys like Gronkowski and Graham get open on their own.

I'd also like to point out that the Saints offense didn't have a bunch of sloutches surrounding Graham. Colston, Meacham and Henderson were on the outside while Sproles caught passes out of the backfield. The Saints running game was also A LOT more productive then the Packers'.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

The only way a tag and trade with Flynn could work is if say the Dolphins call up Ted and say, "Look, I really want Flynn for my QB, but I'm really worried he's going to sign with the Browns. If you'll franchise him and trade him to us, I'll give you 3 draft picks." I don't see anyone doing that though. I doubt there are any GMs out there saying "I've GOT to have Flynn!"

The best case scenario would be the Dolphins wanting to avoid a bidding war for Flyn. You figure RG3 is going to wanted by Miami, Cleveland and possibly Seattle and Washington. Not every team can have him.

 

[GreenBlood]

Again GreenBlood, it would only be done if Thompson has an agreement with Flynn and his agent not to sign the tag. And if you're a GM who is hearing first hand from the HC you just hired that Flynn is a franchise QB, you may keep your draft picks and then lose out in a bidding war for Flynn's services. But that would be a crappy way to start your relationship with your new HC and you would risk losing "the answer" at the most important position in football, a guy who could help the HC teach the offense to the rest of team, for the price of a first or second round pick.

I assume you're talking about the Dolphins here. Again, Flynn has played a mere TWO games, albeit two very good games. But I think you are overestimating the perception of him around the league. I don't think you're going to see a "bidding war" for him. A smart GM is going to simply say if someone wants to overpay him, it's not my problem, but I'm not giving up draft picks for a guy with 2 starts. And if my new HC doesn't like it, he'll get over it like coaches do everywhere else when they don't get their wish.

I'm certainly not predicting Thompson will do it, I'm just saying it's not outside the realm of possibility.

It's possible that Ron Paul will be our next president, but I sure wouldn't bet on it.

 

[GreenBlood]

My question to you would be this: Why did Finley not explode when Jennings was injured? Finley disappears too many times throughout games. Guys like Gronkowski and Graham get open on their own.

So does Finley. BTW, I'll remind you he is one year removed from knee surgery and was pretty much thrown right in the fire. Guys are rarely full speed in the first year after a knee injury. McCarthy said the primary goal with him was to get him through the season healthy. In fact, read it for yourself: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/packers.html

Scroll down where it says "McCarthy wraps up 2011 season". Does that sound to you like a guy who has a problem with his TE? Pay particular attention to the comments about work ethic and self-criticism.

I'd also like to point out that the Saints offense didn't have a bunch of sloutches surrounding Graham. Colston, Meacham and Henderson were on the outside while Sproles caught passes out of the backfield. The Saints running game was also A LOT more productive then the Packers'.

So what? Brees has always been a guy who picks out his favorite target every year and he looks for that guy all the time. This year that guy was Graham. Rodgers doesn't do that. He takes the guy who is open and if more than one guy is open, he goes to the guy who is in position to make the bigger play. Our WRs just happen to be very good at getting open. Just because a guy is open doesn't mean he's going to get the ball. And just because he didn't get the ball doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't open. The only way to make that assessment with any accuracy is by looking at game film.

 

[GreenBlood]

The best case scenario would be the Dolphins wanting to avoid a bidding war for Flyn. You figure RG3 is going to wanted by Miami, Cleveland and possibly Seattle and Washington. Not every team can have him.

As much as I like Flynn, I just don't see a huge bidding war over a guy with 2 starts. I could be wrong, but I just don't see anyone giving up draft picks to get first dibs on him. I also don't see TT even considering it until Wells and Finley are under contract.