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Packer State of the Union

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Ogsponge, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    I personally think it would be great if we could actually have an honest debate about the Packers state of the union. This board gets so bogged down with the 2 opposing extremes where one side seems to believe that the Packers are perfect and you should not dare criticize them in any fashion while there is another side believes everything sucks and apparently the team should be blown up. When the truth is, if you look at objectively there is a middle ground. Now don't get me wrong, I completely understand that people are not always going to agree not matter how much debate happens, but there is no reason why it has to devolve into "you suck, no you suck" type arguments. So with that being said I am going to give my thoughts on the "State of the Union" of the Packers organization and invite anyone from either extreme or directly in the middle to debate my points. Especially if you can do in a logical, intelligent fashion without it resulting in a flame war.

    The Good:

    The Team - This team is built to win and it does win year in and year out, that can't be denied.

    Ted Thompson - There is no denying that this guy has done a marvelous job of building a continual winner. His decision making has created a perennial powerhouse in the NFL continuing the tradition that Wolf started but a few others began to destroy leaving TT to pick up the pieces.

    Mike McCarthy - Again, this guys has been a fabulous coach and constantly puts his team in a position to win, year in and year out and that really can't be denied. He has a Super Bowl to his name and is the 2nd winningest coach in Packers history.

    Offense - All the tools are in place for this offense to become a juggernaut. The continued maturation of Adams and R. Rodgers, combined with the hopeful resigning of Cobb and Bulaga will make this team and absolute powerhouse. The offensive line came into in its own and will only get better and they will not only be able to protect Aaron, they will be able to continue to gel and maul people in the running game. If Adams and R. Rodgers can continue to improve and Abbrederis can come back and contribute (which mentally and football IQ wise I believe he is already there) the Packers can open up an array of offensive formations that have been missing since the days of Jennings, Jordy, Cobb, Jones and Finely. Throw in the Lacy? Ya that offense could be record breaking.

    Aaron Rodgers - What is there to say? The guy is the best. Hands down.

    Defense - to be honest with you, it is hard for me to find good things to say about the defense but I will say these guys did show that they can play top notch defense a few days. There are some good tools in place. Our safety position is looking more like a future strength instead of its biggest weakness.

    The Bad:

    The Team - This team is not built to win. WHAT?!? I know, I know, I am contradicting myself so let me explain. This team is built to win regular season games, it is not built to win championships. It is built to win games, win the division, and hope all the stars align for a Superbowl run similar to 2010. While there is something to be said for that, the last 5 years of playoffs would highly suggest that it is not working. I am not really sure how anyone could think otherwise.

    Ted Thompson - Unfortunately he has had some abysmal failures on putting together a defense. There have been some completely wasted and missed picks that have hurt the team. However he has had some recent picks that if continued should show a turn around.

    Mike McCarthy - In my opinion his belief in himself and his game plan is complete arrogance at times. He has a stubborn refusal to move away from things that are not working even when it is hurting the team. I know a lot of people think he is too conservative but I don't believe that to be the case. I believe he is often a very aggressive coach, what I do believe is he gets too conservative at the wrong times. Using the NFCCG as an example, this is not the time to be conservative. If you don't win, your season is done. When the game is over, you should be able to say we gave it our all, we left it out on the field. However, the Packers did not do that which is evident by the player reactions. How many of them said "we gave it away", if the players are saying that, they don't believe for one second they left it all out on the field, they gave it away.

    Offense - I have used this term in other posts and I will use it again. This team is soft when it matters most. That is not to say they are always soft, but they flat out are soft when it matters most. I will use the NFCCG as an example again. The goal line stands, FG's on 4th and one. We should not have even been in 4th and 1 positions, with this o'line, Kuhn and Lacy and the backfield they should be able to line up and punch it in the end zone the majority of the time. Unfortunately they do not and it really hurt in this game. Another example, the last drive, game on the line, they did not get it done, they got into Seattle territory quite easily and into field goal range and then just completely collapsed and failed to move the ball anymore. A fired up, mentally and physical strong team would have at the very least come much closer to finishing that drive off with a TD for the win.

    Aaron Rodgers - uh oh, when you read my criticism of Rodgers please refer to what I said about him above. Here is my one and only criticism of A-Rod. He is absolutely, positively too concerned with NOT throwing interceptions. I am sure a lot of you do not look at this at as a bad thing, but it is. He takes unnecessary sacks, and does not take chances when chances are needed. Think about this. A-Rod has never in his entire career led the Packers to victory after being down by more than 9 points. The reason being? He is unwilling to take a chance. I won't go as far as to say he would rather lose than throw an interception. But I will say he would rather have some sort of miracle happen to win a game than to take a chance where there is a higher probability of throwing a Pick.

    The greatest come from behind QB's interception % nearly doubles when playing from behind 8 points or more. A-Rod's stays exactly the same which is why he is actually one of the poorest come from behind QB's out there. He refuses to the chance you need to take to win ball games. And let's face it, when you are down by 8 points or more, the chances of winning the game are usually pretty slim so you are either going to lose playing conservatively giving yourself no chance to win, you are going to lose throwing a pick trying to give you a chance to win, or you are going to take that chance and win the game.

    Aaron needs to learn to take chances when the likelihood of losing anyways is already pretty high.

    Bulaga - One good year after a lot of injuries and he is likely to be the best available tackle in free agency which means even with the injury history, some team may very well thrown and obscene amount of money that TT simply will not (and rightly so) match as we all know TT will not overpay for players, which is a good thing. However, having to start over at right tackle again would not be a good thing either.

    Defense - Again, soft, the defense is soft when it matters most. Just look at the NFCCG, when it mattered most the defense completely imploded and could not stop a single freaking play. It was absolutely ridiculous. I know some you will argue they were not soft for 55 minutes of that game and you would be right but my reply to you will be so what? This defense once again, completely crumbled and fell apart when it mattered most. That is the very definition of a soft football team. A strong -willed football team NEVER would have allowed what happened to happen. Period.

    The Ugly:

    Wait, what? There is no ugly with the Packers. Unfortunately I think there is some ugly.

    As already said, this team is soft in crunch time, it is lacking leadership and accountability when it matters most and that starts at the head coach. As bad as this defense has been, Dom Capers should not have a job. Period. It is his job to have the players prepared. It is his job to make sure the players do not allow the comedy of errors that they commit and he has not and McCarthy has yet to hold him accountable. If the coaches are not held accountable how are the players going to be. This team believes too much that they are infallible and that if they just "execute" they will win. And while that is true, whose job is to make sure the players execute? The coach, plain and simple. If you don't think a good coach can make a difference, they I highly doubt your understanding of team sports. A good coach can make a below average unit really good, they can make a good unit great and they can also make a unit completely underperform.

    In 2011 in the midst of a run at a perfect season, the lowly Kansas City Chiefs display the blue print on how to beat the mighty Packers, something that no one else had done yet. What is that blue print you say? Line up and punch the Packers in the mouth. Play man defense, and control the line of scrimmage and the chances of beating the Pack are very, very good. Just ask the Giants, the 49er's, the Seahawks, the Lions (1st game of this season), the Bills. These are all teams that followed the exact blueprint to a T. I suppose you wonder why if that is the blueprint to beating the Packers, why doesn't everyone do it? Well I will tell you why, because they are just like the Packers are defensively, they are simply not built to man up and punch you in the mouth.

    This team needs stronger leadership, they need someone that will stand up with 3 minutes left to go in the NFCCG and say "Enough is Enough, this is not acceptable, we will pull our heads out or our asses and we will win this football game." That did not happen, instead we saw players in pseudo celebration mode. In other words, players being soft...

    So in closing of this ridiculously long post, the Packers are in a great position. They have the tools in place. There is no real cause for concern other than this teams needs to find some fire, some passion and some leadership that will push this team over the top and get them back to a Super Bowl. They have to decide that playoff games like occurred vs the Cardinals, Giants, 49er's and Seahawks are no longer going to happen, scratch that, games like that will happen but they will learn to win in those kinds of games instead of lose.

    One last thing I want to say is that I know some of you might want to say I am spoiled, you can't win them all, etc... but you would be wrong about me, I realize you can't win them all and the fact the Packers have been bounced out of the playoffs is not what bothers me. What bothers me is the embarrassing, unbelievable fashion that it has happened against the Cardinals, Giants, 49er's and Seahawks.
     
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  2. Rickbbg

    Rickbbg Cheesehead

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    Let's face it. At the start of the season most fans were thinking 9-7, 10-6 at best. I'd say we had one great season. Our QB is the MVP of the league who played on one leg and still was better than any other QB in the league.
     
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  3. Jdeed

    Jdeed Cheesehead

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    Personally I would say playing in the North Central is not a blessing as the teams are not that good overall and have puffed up the stats and wins in recent years. Going into next season they will probably win at 4-5 games again from the North. Another thing is the Home field Advantage they have going 8-0 at Home or close to it year after year which means another 4-5 wins.

    In the game against Seattle GB played like the Lions do and Lost just like the Lions have done year after after watching the other team come back and Win. If the Coach had played just alittle more cut throat and going for the Kill they would have won.

    This next Season the NFC North will be tougher AP will be back for Minn, the Lions will be going into their Second year under a New Offense, and the Bears still have the team on Offense to Win.

    Will the Packers Improve enough to still beat the North up?

    The Packers are going to win 10 or so games next year and be in the playoffs again the question is can they play better against non NFC north teams and on the road?

    Can they win enough games to have Home Field through out the playoffs?

    If they solve that they will go to the Super Bowl no problem.
     
  4. Packers Boston

    Packers Boston Cheesehead

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    Aaron Rodgers - uh oh, when you read my criticism of Rodgers please refer to what I said about him above. Here is my one and only criticism of A-Rod. He is absolutely, positively too concerned with NOT throwing interceptions. I am sure a lot of you do not look at this at as a bad thing, but it is. He takes unnecessary sacks, and does not take chances when chances are needed. Think about this. A-Rod has never in his entire career led the Packers to victory after being down by more than 9 points. The reason being? He is unwilling to take a chance. I won't go as far as to say he would rather lose than throw an interception. But I will say he would rather have some sort of miracle happen to win a game than to take a chance where there is a higher probability of throwing a Pick.
    [/QUOTE]

    Something to be said about a gunslinger, but I would take Rodgers any day with his cautious style over Favre, who regularly put his head down and chucked INTs deep in the post season (see NFC championship vs NY)
     
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  5. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Something to be said about a gunslinger, but I would take Rodgers any day with his cautious style over Favre, who regularly put his head down and chucked INTs deep in the post season (see NFC championship vs NY)[/QUOTE]


    Good points all. I'll have to side with PackersBoston and go with Rodgers.
     
  6. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Something to be said about a gunslinger, but I would take Rodgers any day with his cautious style over Favre, who regularly put his head down and chucked INTs deep in the post season (see NFC championship vs NY)[/QUOTE]

    I absolutely agree with you 100%, however, there are times where you need to take a more risky chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.
     
  7. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    I read a lot of good post here, some outside of the Packer world say its sour grapes, well I dismiss them as not being Packer fans, overall the packer problem is leadership, " I put it like this to a young fan after the game, " if I was 3ft from a $100 bill and someone else was 10ft from that $100 bill, and the 10ft away guy grabs that bill B4 me even though I was closer and I had nothing to worry about because I could just pick it up, "your to far away" that money is mine, and in a blink that money is gone, the other guy took it, because I "hesitated"because I knew as far away as the other guy was, I believed he could never catch up that fast before me...went off the rails but it's the pt I was trying to make to him, I personally do not believe MM and his coaching staff can not get us too " not win" get us too another SB, the agony of 1 and done is now, 2 cautious to "get it done"...
     
  8. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    I'm still getting over the fact that we lost..I can't bare to watch the game and see where MM and his staff fell asleep. What defense was capers running in the last 5 minutes? Everyone quit
     
  9. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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  10. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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  11. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    It´s still to early to predict what will happen in the NFC North next season as we still have to see what happens in free agency and the draft but I fully expect the Packers to be the best team in the division again. By the way I don´t expect Adrian Peterson to be back with the Vikings and while the Bears will still have to figure out what to do with Jay Cutler I´m impressed with the coaching staff they put together.
     
  12. Bagadeez04

    Bagadeez04 Cheesehead

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    Pretty decent evaluation. I think there is a ton of talent on this roster and will continue to be.

    They will though, always have an issue with "crunch time"and the big games cause I think MM gets phyched out. I think at these crucial moments in games every bone in his body is telling him to not screw up...as opposed to some coaches who say OK let's keep playing aggressive, let's finish these guys off. It's the differences in personality. While some coaches relish those moments, I truly think McCarthy loathes them.

    Not saying he's a bad coach or a bag guy, but it is his biggest flaw.
     
  13. fritothedog

    fritothedog Cheesehead

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    I know that Aaron focuses on not getting picked off and has since junior high or something like that but I wonder if he would turn into more of a gunslinger if he felt he could trust his defense more than it seems he can?

    All good points though. Thanks for the breakdown.
     
  14. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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  15. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    The problem is, once you get there and have a golden opportunity to go to the SB and you blow it, big time, then your great season has a huge asterisk next to it. What the OP said represents a pretty strong opinion among fans, pretty informed ones at that, that this team is lacking at some level in coaching, leadership and attitude. Before you could use the excuse of a lack of good players. Not this year. The failure of this team to generate an attitude of killing the other team when you have them down is one of the main reasons why the Packers suffered one of the biggest chokes in playoff history a couple of Sundays ago.
     
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  16. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    I hope we have a defensive heavy draft with a TE and OL sprinkled in.
     
  17. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    Ive been saying all along that our defense is a fiery stud/dominant ILB away from being very very good.
     
  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    If the Packers bring back Bulaga and Barclay I don't feel the need for drafting another OL.
     
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  19. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Some veteran depth on the Oline would be nice. I don't want to see a Packer lineman being helped off the field next season with the depth chart showing just 2 undrafted rookie free agents.
     
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  20. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Tretter was a fourth round pick in 2013 and while Barclay was undrafted he has already proved he's capable of filling in adequately.
     
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  21. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    Tretter was on IR all season and outside of Barclay- a limited player- I can't even remember the other guys name. Depth needs to be better.
     
  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Tretter was on IR-designated to return and played a total of 58 offensive snaps after the bye week.
     
  23. PackerDNA

    PackerDNA Cheesehead

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    You win , Cap. Depth still needs to be better on the Oline.
     
  24. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I have my thoughts on how I'd like this to go in a perfect world. ILB, DL/TE, Oline and DB's depending on what happens with House and Williams.

    But really there are a lot of ways this team can get better on both sides of the balls and not a lot of real glaring holes. You could say ILB, but as long as we have guys that can play on the outside, we have guys that can play on the inside too, Clay and Barrington were just fine.

    I like our offensive line, but it can be upgraded. I think I'd like our Dline to upgraded first and we always need Linebackers, inside and outside.

    I think again, GB is in a position to really pick the players they think are the best and we'll be in better shape.
     
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  25. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Stopped reading after McCarthy was listed under "The Good". He is not a good coach. If you take Rodgers, the best QB in the world, out of the equation, McCarthy would be exposed as the average coach he actually. He's too conservative and has no killer instinct.

    As stated in another article on another website, Mike McCarthy is Andy Reid with a Super Bowl Title.
     
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