Packer Forum People Are Not.

[Raider Pride]

I have now been in Milwaukee for three weeks and spoke to many Packer Fans in local bars on Brady Street, as well in small restaurants.

This long weekend I went up to Marquette WI. (Population 185) I fished Puckaway Lake and met many Packer Fans in this small town and not one of them *****ed about T.T.

So far I have not met one person in Milwaukee or Marquette who hated T.T. So far I have not met one person who *****ed about him.

However, So far I have met many people who want the Packers to win.

So far I have met many Packer Fans, and all of them just want to talk about how good they will be next year because they have improved. They want to talk about going from 8 and 8 to the NFC Championship with the Defence. They want to talk about next year and how they are looking forward to just watching the games. Seeing the Packers play in the bar with their buddy's or at home with the family.

The people I met are not radical Internet bloggers. The Internet may indeed attract the radical on any issue including T.T.

What I have seen so far, with my own eyes, is great fans who are positive about the team. Fans who just say, "Next Year"

There is a difference between Packer Fans on the Internet and the Packer Fans who are not on the end of a fiber-optic cable but are real people in Wisconsin.

There really is a huge difference between real life and the Internet.

I would have loved to find a Packer Fan who wanted to discuss and debate with me on how I feel that T.T. is taking the right path. So far every one has agreed with me.

Three weeks... I have not found a T.T. Hater in person.

R.P.

 

[Krazygangsta]

From montreal canada ... im not a T.T. Hater either , of course i do think we could of a had a better draft but we can never know ... until we actually see what the picks are doing

 

[Zero2Cool]

There really is a huge difference between real life and the Internet.

I would have loved to find a Packer Fan who wanted to discuss and debate with me on how I feel that T.T. is taking the right path. So far every one has agreed with me.

Three weeks... I have not found a T.T. Hater in person.

R.P.

That's jus how we WI people get down for our team. We be zah coolios for the shizzle!

 

[MassPackersFan]

I'm aware of the anti-TT sentiment in Wisconsin, living out in Massachusetts, from articles and from what friends and family in WI say. I am still confident in his ability as GM of the Packers. We've brought in some key players, have quickly rebuilt the team from one of the oldest in the league to one of the youngest, I believe the young team could be very good, and we're no longer struggling to retain players with a maxed out cap. If we had gone on the same path we were on a few years back, we would be seeing a ton of articles this offseason about the woes of not being able to give Barnett and/or Harris the money they need to stay on. Plus we'd probably still have Carroll as a starting CB, so we'd be facing the nightmare possibility of Carroll and __________ (fill in the blank) at starting cornerback.

 

[hoos]

Say what you want, but blindly supporting management does not make you a good fan. You can be critical of management and still support your team. Until TT proves that he can build a winner in GB I will keep my blinders off. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I have the right to have my own opinion without being a bad fan. No one else here knows how the season will play out, to claim that you are know TT is doing the right thing is speculation at this point, just like thinking that he is doing a bad job.

 

[tromadz]

why is it 'blindly' supporting management?

 

[all about da packers]

Say what you want, but blindly supporting management does not make you a good fan. You can be critical of management and still support your team. Until TT proves that he can build a winner in GB I will keep my blinders off. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I have the right to have my own opinion without being a bad fan. No one else here knows how the season will play out, to claim that you are know TT is doing the right thing is speculation at this point, just like thinking that he is doing a bad job.

Precisely, and I know we both want the Packers to do good.

The thing is though, you can't take our (the people who are "pro-Ted") optimism for believing Ted has no faults. We aren't saying that.

We defend Ted because history has proven you need to give a GM at least 3 years to do his thing. Every successful team today (Chargers, Bears, Saints) had GMs that had terms of 3+ years before they started winning games. We're saying give him time, history has proven that he deserves it to prove if he is a good GM or not.

And while we ("pro-TT" crowd) are willing to give him that time, we're enjoying the ride of becoming better (we think the Packers are improving). We're enjoying the emergence of rookies, the team growing, and the players maturing.

We're enjoying progress (once again, according to our judgement), not becoming content with mediocrity.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we'll be just as ticked off as the next guy should Ted fail, but until he does, we'll be optimistic.

That doesn't mean some of us "pro-TT" crowd don't like to laugh at Ted at times though.

 

[cheesey]

Say what you want, but blindly supporting management does not make you a good fan. You can be critical of management and still support your team. Until TT proves that he can build a winner in GB I will keep my blinders off. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I have the right to have my own opinion without being a bad fan. No one else here knows how the season will play out, to claim that you are know TT is doing the right thing is speculation at this point, just like thinking that he is doing a bad job.

I agree.......but i am not blindly supporting management. I am giving the needed time to prove good or bad.
Some on here just rip the guy because they don't like him. If thats the measuring stick thats used to judge the job TT is doing, thats not the right thing to do. I don't personally know TT. I doubt that he and i would get along much, cause i'm such a joker, and he APPEARS at least to be very straight laced. But who knows? Maybe if he and i were sitting having a beer, maybe i could get him to laugh!
But in the end, ALL i care about is how he does his job.
Hopefully he won't let me, (and all the other fans) down.

 

[Hammer]

Raidah,
How was the fishing at Puckaway? I used to go there every year when my uncle had a cabin on the lake in the 60s and 70s.

 

[longtimefan]

Raidah,
How was the fishing at Puckaway? I used to go there every year when my uncle had a cabin on the lake in the 60s and 70s.

http://www.packerforum.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11051

he psots it there

 

[MassPackersFan]

Say what you want, but blindly supporting management does not make you a good fan. You can be critical of management and still support your team. Until TT proves that he can build a winner in GB I will keep my blinders off. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I have the right to have my own opinion without being a bad fan. No one else here knows how the season will play out, to claim that you are know TT is doing the right thing is speculation at this point, just like thinking that he is doing a bad job.

Is there a reason you posted this right after mine? I listed a number of reasons why I am still objectively supportive of Thompson. There's nothing "blind" about it. We just disagree, I guess. Which is fine. A lot of people look at "12-20 over two years" and think it is the most important factor determining where the team is heading this year and next.

 

[dhpackr]

I have now been in Milwaukee for three weeks and spoke to many Packer Fans in local bars on Brady Street, as well in small restaurants.

This long weekend I went up to Marquette WI. (Population 185) I fished Puckaway Lake and met many Packer Fans in this small town and not one of them *****ed about T.T.

So far I have not met one person in Milwaukee or Marquette who hated T.T. So far I have not met one person who *****ed about him.

However, So far I have met many people who want the Packers to win.

So far I have met many Packer Fans, and all of them just want to talk about how good they will be next year because they have improved. They want to talk about going from 8 and 8 to the NFC Championship with the Defence. They want to talk about next year and how they are looking forward to just watching the games. Seeing the Packers play in the bar with their buddy's or at home with the family.

The people I met are not radical Internet bloggers. The Internet may indeed attract the radical on any issue including T.T.

What I have seen so far, with my own eyes, is great fans who are positive about the team. Fans who just say, "Next Year"

There is a difference between Packer Fans on the Internet and the Packer Fans who are not on the end of a fiber-optic cable but are real people in Wisconsin.

There really is a huge difference between real life and the Internet.

I would have loved to find a Packer Fan who wanted to discuss and debate with me on how I feel that T.T. is taking the right path. So far every one has agreed with me.

Three weeks... I have not found a T.T. Hater in person.

R.P.

OK DUDE,
I am born and raised in Milwaukee WI. I hate TT, think he should be fired for selling out #4, will always be known as the guy who sold out Brett fAVRE.
Bring back Ron Wolf as President, and Holmgren as GM

If you think Brady Street is cool now, you should have seen it in the 70's
BTW, I was going to the Roman Coin back then as well

 

[pack_in_black]

OK DUDE,
I am born and raised in Milwaukee WI. I hate TT, think he should be fired for selling out #4, will always be known as the guy who sold out Brett fAVRE.
Bring back Ron Wolf as President, and Holmgren as GM

If you think Brady Street is cool now, you should have seen it in the 70's
BTW, I was going to the Roman Coin back then as well

Just wondering, how can a team's GM "sell out" a single player? I always understood that phrase to mean one person giving up on thier values for more $$$$. I don't understand how that would apply to TT & #4.

If you just mean mistreated, why the hell should any GM be fired for mistreating one player??

And on that note, how is not signing/trading for glitzy players mistreatment? Damn, Favre is not the be-all and end-all of the Green Bay Packers. Brett is well-compensated and well-coddled by management. He can hardly be considered mistreated.

 

[retiredgrampa]

I think that one thing we can all be sure of is that TT is a PACKER lover, not a FAVRE lover. He knows a team is 11 men on the field, not one man. At this point in time, it would be suicide for TT to put all his hopes into Favre, as well as all his resources. TT will be here AFTER Favre and hopefully successful. At the end of 2007, we will be within our rights(and with enough knowledge) to judge TT. Now we are merely guessing and trying to bide our time waiting for the real season to start. I can only guess how anxious these players are to get into pads and prove their worth as NFL players. It must be tough for them to just run and lift weights w/o knowing what really awaits them when the flag goes down. After all, these guys have been working and sweating for years for this ONE chance. The pressure must be enormous. But TT's choices are high-character types(with a possible exception or two) who don't avoid work and are focused towards success. Too bad that they ALL can't make it.

 

[dhpackr]

OK DUDE,
I am born and raised in Milwaukee WI. I hate TT, think he should be fired for selling out #4, will always be known as the guy who sold out Brett fAVRE.
Bring back Ron Wolf as President, and Holmgren as GM

If you think Brady Street is cool now, you should have seen it in the 70's
BTW, I was going to the Roman Coin back then as well

Just wondering, how can a team's GM "sell out" a single player? I always understood that phrase to mean one person giving up on thier values for more $$$$. I don't understand how that would apply to TT & #4.

If you just mean mistreated, why the hell should any GM be fired for mistreating one player??

And on that note, how is not signing/trading for glitzy players mistreatment? Damn, Favre is not the be-all and end-all of the Green Bay Packers. Brett is well-compensated and well-coddled by management. He can hardly be considered mistreated.

I meant TT's poor decision to let Green, Walker, Wahle go, and replacing those players with Colledge, Jones, Jackson, is not giving a HOF QB nor the Packers orginization, a decent chance at winning a Super Bowl. Just watch Carolina, and San Fran compared to the Packers next season.

So, I don't feel TT gave up on his values, he gave up on the Packes, and his personell moves and decisions, will cost him his job. and for many years after he is gone, people will blame him for not getting Favre & the Packers back to the playoffs!

 

[Pack93z]

Precisely, and I know we both want the Packers to do good.

The thing is though, you can't take our (the people who are "pro-Ted") optimism for believing Ted has no faults. We aren't saying that.

We defend Ted because history has proven you need to give a GM at least 3 years to do his thing. Every successful team today (Chargers, Bears, Saints) had GMs that had terms of 3+ years before they started winning games. We're saying give him time, history has proven that he deserves it to prove if he is a good GM or not.

And while we ("pro-TT" crowd) are willing to give him that time, we're enjoying the ride of becoming better (we think the Packers are improving). We're enjoying the emergence of rookies, the team growing, and the players maturing.

We're enjoying progress (once again, according to our judgement), not becoming content with mediocrity.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we'll be just as ticked off as the next guy should Ted fail, but until he does, we'll be optimistic.

That doesn't mean some of us "pro-TT" crowd don't like to laugh at Ted at times though.

I haven't thrown my two cents out there for a while... so here goes. I can't speak for more than myself, so please keep my opinion within context. While I don't pretend to be a "Pro-TT" fan, I think he has done some things very well and wise. The structure of his contracts and utilizing space in current year vs future is a wise way of utilizing the good fortune he has had of record increases in the cap. A wise man uses the tools that he is given. He also has made wise choices in letting some players go free.. IE Green was overpaid, Sharper was in decline, and Longwell was replaceable.

But it comes down to me is have we really improved overall? Under the failures of Sherman... we had a high octane O with a subpar D. Today we are building a competitive defense with a sputtering O. Results... we got hammered by the elite teams in both regimes. Does that oooz of success?

We have a ton of youth, save a few of them (Hawk, Maybe Jennings and Colledge) none are guaranteed to succeed or improve this year. Do we have any track record that youth can exceed players that have succeeded before? For that matter do we have a track record with this coaching staff to groom players? Not really in there others stops.. But maybe it might be different here.

Now before someone comes out and claims me a dooms dayer or points at me and says .... "What you want... more FA and money spent, what a fool". Not necessarily. Adding veteran players does not always mean breaking the bank. Sure you can point to some contracts and say... Holy SH*&!!!! But some very good players were signed to competive contracts or reasonable trades occured that would have helped shore up this team and provide protection in case youth or "diamonds" turn into coal.

My contention with Ted is this, he has been here 3 offseasons now and the theme is apparent, youth and digging for "diamonds". That is not a bad strategy, however year after year you cannot run these projects with potential out on the field as your starters or key players. You have to have balance in my opinion, otherwise you risk your entire fortunes on unproven players without experience.

In any business, you have to balance the proven with the cost effective and the future. Sherman errored on what he thought was proven and expensive, my belief is Ted is making a mistake on the unproven and untested.

If I ran the company on "bleeding edge" servers and hardware that are unproven without a blend of proven dependable and tested machines ... Or continuely staff the department with newcommers and none with experience; my opinion is that I probably won't succeed either.

My hope is my caution and disagreement is decisively disproven and the Pack truly takes another step forward.

 

[Zombieslayer]

Say what you want, but blindly supporting management does not make you a good fan. You can be critical of management and still support your team. Until TT proves that he can build a winner in GB I will keep my blinders off. I'm not saying he can't do it, but I have the right to have my own opinion without being a bad fan. No one else here knows how the season will play out, to claim that you are know TT is doing the right thing is speculation at this point, just like thinking that he is doing a bad job.

Precisely, and I know we both want the Packers to do good.

The thing is though, you can't take our (the people who are "pro-Ted") optimism for believing Ted has no faults. We aren't saying that.

We defend Ted because history has proven you need to give a GM at least 3 years to do his thing. Every successful team today (Chargers, Bears, Saints) had GMs that had terms of 3+ years before they started winning games. We're saying give him time, history has proven that he deserves it to prove if he is a good GM or not.

And while we ("pro-TT" crowd) are willing to give him that time, we're enjoying the ride of becoming better (we think the Packers are improving). We're enjoying the emergence of rookies, the team growing, and the players maturing.

We're enjoying progress (once again, according to our judgement), not becoming content with mediocrity.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we'll be just as ticked off as the next guy should Ted fail, but until he does, we'll be optimistic.

That doesn't mean some of us "pro-TT" crowd don't like to laugh at Ted at times though.

AADP - You are one of the more sane posters on this board. While you may be pro-TT, you do it in a rational, sane way instead of making personal attacks.

I am a TT-neutral. I think he's good with drafts, but has horrible sales skills. He has failed to "sell" Green Bay to certain FAs. His drafting has been wonderful though.

I also think we should give him more time. He's in his third season, and now is the time we begin to judge him (well, I mean starting this season when it starts). If we suck this year, I'll hate TT. If we kick ***, I'll love him. This year decides it all.

That said, I've had a certain poster make all kinds of personal insults just because I got frustrated by some of the choices he made. It is attitudes like that that give the pro-TT crowd a bad name.

 

[warhawk]

dhPackr wrote:

OK DUDE,
I am born and raised in Milwaukee WI. I hate TT, think he should be fired for selling out #4, will always be known as the guy who sold out Brett fAVRE.

So exactly how does TT get the blame for "selling out Favre" when he took over a team that had about the worst defense in the NFL. All the decent players that left were replaced with Johnson's and Reynolds and Carrolls and Digg's and Romans and Lenons. All players I'm sure are just key components of other SB contending teams.

By the time TT gets here we have Barnett, Kampman, Harris, and, a rookie Safety in Collins that was pretty good. KGB was iffy and so was the interior DL .We got four or five guys that can play the rest pretty much suck and heaven forbid anybody gets hurt cause there is NOTHIN' behind them.

But somehow we should blame TT for not pushing some magical button and putting a quality defense together that gives us a REALISTIC chance to win a playoff game.
You did watch the '04 playoff game right? The one we could not have won if we had twelve guys out there on defense. At home.

Please watch the '07 Packers as you will see the first defense (other than the last four games of last year) that you will have seen in five years.

Now I am sure I am going to hear about how good our defense actually was and that I am just imagining all of these things. I am sure Digg's and Lenon would have gotten two steps faster and would have actually tackled somebody up by the line of scrimmage for once, Carroll would have stopped grabbing everybody, KGB would have actually GOTTEN to the QB for a change, and, the DL would have stopped imitating a bucket full of buck shot.

Exactly who sold out BF again?

 

[Woodson_fan]

It could have something to do with you guys not having to deal with all the hostile environments. I live in sioux falls, south dakota, witch is pretty close to minn. and the local news always does specials on the vikings and at least 85% percent of the football fans are viqueen fans. Sometimes you get backed into a corner and you have make up excuses for green bay's horible offseason. The excuses could be true, I don't know.

 

[Pack93z]

Oh yeah... on topic RP.... not hearing much complaining about TT... well most people around these parts will defend the Packers till the last woodtick freezes for the winter.

But I would guess from what I have seen in the central part of the state... if you took a straw poll I would bet money on a pretty even split on agreeing with the direction vs not. But very few "hate" the guy.... just aren't sold on the direction.

 

[warhawk]

Precisely, and I know we both want the Packers to do good.

The thing is though, you can't take our (the people who are "pro-Ted") optimism for believing Ted has no faults. We aren't saying that.

We defend Ted because history has proven you need to give a GM at least 3 years to do his thing. Every successful team today (Chargers, Bears, Saints) had GMs that had terms of 3+ years before they started winning games. We're saying give him time, history has proven that he deserves it to prove if he is a good GM or not.

And while we ("pro-TT" crowd) are willing to give him that time, we're enjoying the ride of becoming better (we think the Packers are improving). We're enjoying the emergence of rookies, the team growing, and the players maturing.

We're enjoying progress (once again, according to our judgement), not becoming content with mediocrity.

I think I speak for everyone when I say we'll be just as ticked off as the next guy should Ted fail, but until he does, we'll be optimistic.

That doesn't mean some of us "pro-TT" crowd don't like to laugh at Ted at times though.

I haven't thrown my two cents out there for a while... so here goes. I can't speak for more than myself, so please keep my opinion within context. While I don't pretend to be a "Pro-TT" fan, I think he has done some things very well and wise. The structure of his contracts and utilizing space in current year vs future is a wise way of utilizing the good fortune he has had of record increases in the cap. A wise man uses the tools that he is given. He also has made wise choices in letting some players go free.. IE Green was overpaid, Sharper was in decline, and Longwell was replaceable.

But it comes down to me is have we really improved overall? Under the failures of Sherman... we had a high octane O with a subpar D. Today we are building a competitive defense with a sputtering O. Results... we got hammered by the elite teams in both regimes. Does that oooz of success?

We have a ton of youth, save a few of them (Hawk, Maybe Jennings and Colledge) none are guaranteed to succeed or improve this year. Do we have any track record that youth can exceed players that have succeeded before? For that matter do we have a track record with this coaching staff to groom players? Not really in there others stops.. But maybe it might be different here.

Now before someone comes out and claims me a dooms dayer or points at me and says .... "What you want... more FA and money spent, what a fool". Not necessarily. Adding veteran players does not always mean breaking the bank. Sure you can point to some contracts and say... Holy SH*&!!!! But some very good players were signed to competive contracts or reasonable trades occured that would have helped shore up this team and provide protection in case youth or "diamonds" turn into coal.

My contention with Ted is this, he has been here 3 offseasons now and the theme is apparent, youth and digging for "diamonds". That is not a bad strategy, however year after year you cannot run these projects with potential out on the field as your starters or key players. You have to have balance in my opinion, otherwise you risk your entire fortunes on unproven players without experience.

In any business, you have to balance the proven with the cost effective and the future. Sherman errored on what he thought was proven and expensive, my belief is Ted is making a mistake on the unproven and untested.

If I ran the company on "bleeding edge" servers and hardware that are unproven without a blend of proven dependable and tested machines ... Or continuely staff the department with newcommers and none with experience; my opinion is that I probably won't succeed either.

My hope is my caution and disagreement is decisively disproven and the Pack truly takes another step forward.

A few comments.

I see no good fortune for a GM given higher cap numbers because the result was just more money to the players. The players were fortuned by the raise in the cap. It didn't make managing it any easier for the GM's. With no increase Green probably stays a Packer but ends up with $7.5 mil.

In his intial years based on the poor cap position, the average age of the players, with no young up and coming guys, and, with several holes to fill both in the starting rotation and depth, he went straight to the draft.

My point is that what he HAS done to rectify the above situations does not mean he WILL DO the same thing in the future personnel wise. He has a youthful "0" line now, resigned Barnett, Harris, Jenkins, Kampman, Wells, Driver, and the core is now set for years.

Yes, TT has dug for diamonds. There wasn't a position on the team with any depth other than maybe Favre/ Nall. When TT got here in 05 name ONE decent backup on defense? Anybody?

How about offense. Much has been said about the Rivera/Wahle deal and whose to blame but where were the backups for these guys? There were none.

TT's not just digging for diamonds. He knows guys are going to get hurt. He knows how important depth is to a team. You have to go find those guys and you have to do it in a way you can afford it.

When he opts to take eleven or twelve picks he's not looking for all starters. Two of those that are really good is a good year. He's looking for 53 that will take them beyond 16.

 

[Pack93z]

Please tell me when, after 3 offseasons... can Ted be held accountable for the current state of the roster?

If Sherman destroyed it in 3, one might be able to say Ted owns the current rosters after 3 years and 20 plus million to work with in 2 of them? Please excuse me if I point to 16 % increases to the cap and and less than half of that in median increases in wages. How is that not to a GM's benefit?

Sherman the GM set us back... no arguments here... but this year should tell us about the performance of Ted. I hope they are rave reviews.

 

[warhawk]

Please tell me when, after 3 offseasons... can Ted be held accountable for the current state of the roster?

If Sherman destroyed it in 3, one might be able to say Ted owns the current rosters after 3 years and 20 plus million to work with in 2 of them? Please excuse me if I point to 16 % increases to the cap and and less than half of that in median increases in wages. How is that not to a GM's benefit?

Sherman the GM set us back... no arguments here... but this year should tell us about the performance of Ted. I hope they are rave reviews.

He had 20 million to work with largely due to the decisons NOT to retain certain players or go after FA's looking for rediculous contracts, and, by negotiating reasonable extensions. There are plenty of teams capless right now so it didn't work that great for those GM's.

I'm not sure it equates when considering how long it takes to bring a team back from being taken down. I've seen teams taken down that have been trying to recover for YEARS and haven't been able to do it.

I'm just being realistic when I say the roster TT took over by and large stunk other than a handful of guys on both sides of the ball. Asking that he put a legitimate playoff contending team out there before this season at the earliest was asking more than what I have seen most any GM of late accomplish.

I, for one am encouraged by the fact almost all the starters on both sides are back, we have youth in a young man's game, and many of the backup and situational guys actually look like they can play a little bit.

That's a long ways from where it was.

 

[Schmitty]

I am not a fan of Teddy Smalls, but I do understand that you cant build a team in a year or two. I was very happy at the things TT did last year in the draft and in FA, but this year he took a big crap. I am very disappointed in the moves or lack of moves he did this year in free agency and I know its early, but I thought this years draft was pathetic. I hope I am proven wrong.

 

[cheesey]

I think alot of the dissapointment is because TT didn't take a "flashy" player with the #16 pick. Taking a DT isn't exciting. But.....if Harrell ends up stuffing RB's all this year, helping the D be strong, that is what really matters. Making our D strong can really help our offense.