McCarthy, Thompson And The Hundley Vs Callahan Saga

[PackerfaninCarolina]

So ... Right now the big 3 in TT, MM and DC are under the microscope, but since DC already has his own thread I won't get into him and ... not really much to be said there anyway.

Right now on offense though we got the QB issue and thus far even with a bye week and actually having a healthier OL than Detroit, our offense has minimal drives down the field and continues to shoot itself in the foot anyway. Now I'm looking at a few different factors at play here.

Hundley does have to take the blame for some of this. He seems to lack the zip and at times the wherewithal to gun a ball in the middle of the field. If you're going to succeed in this league at any level period, you don't have to thread the needle to the degree Rodgers does, but you just can't be that trigger shy and rarely throw so much as 7 or 8 yard balls in the middle of the field. That one big gainer to Cobb it seemed like was about the only one he hit that way. And his situational awareness on the drive ending on the fg right before half ... Just bad instincts there and some things regarding QB instincts is you either have them or you don't. I'm starting to think Hundley doesn't.

But I'm also looking at MM here and this stuff we kept hearing that he was going to take the training wheels off, or that he was going to adapt the offense to more zone read stuff. I also mentioned in the Kendricks thread about wanting to see more bootlegs, PA, rollouts misdirections and getting Kendricks involved rolling out with Hundley. I don't know about you guys but I sure didn't see hardly any of that. Seemed like most of Hundley's rollouts were trying to escape pressure on broken plays or being reluctant to throw in the middle. I just saw nothing different between last game and this. Also, seems MM is still trying to run iso and man-beater routes right now. We ranted and raved about that problem that was caused there WITH Rodgers at QB. Run them with Hundley ... Yikes.

Now ... Obviously MM should at least consider giving Callahan a shot and if it doesn't work, go back to Hundley. But I'm just thinking if you're not interested in turning this more into Hundley's UCLA offense, might as well use a QB who came from a more Pro-style offense.

But I'm also pointing the finger at Ted Thompson and his scouts. You just would think theyd pay attention to certain things like arm strength and throws down the middle. Our offense thrives on that stuff. Flynn was no gunneroo, but he could get a few darts over the middle. Maybe MM lobbied to get Hundley here, I don't know, but right now this whole project with him just has me scratching my head. Surely there's better backups suited to MM's offense.

 

[P-E-Z]

Without a running game .... I doubt either backup could have one. Plus the defense was bad.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I think we learned a lot about what works and doesn't work with Hundley. Hunley played his best while working out of the no-huddle and the shotgun. I'd give Hundley one more game to see if he can carry those things over consistently against the Bores. If not, it's Callahan's turn.

 

[adambr2]

I think we learned a lot about what works and doesn't work with Hundley. Hunley played his best while working out of the no-huddle and the shotgun. I'd give Hundley one more game to see if he can carry those things over consistently against the Bores. If not, it's Callahan's turn.

It honestly makes no difference.

I'm fine if they want to give Callahan a shot, but this is a lost season regardless.

EDIT: I'm kind of scratching my head that someone 'disagreed' with this. You haven't been paying much attention to the numerous other issues with this team if you think that Joe Callahan of all people is going to step in and save our season. Even if he did surprisingly well, he's not going to keep our defense from getting shredded every week. Aaron Rodgers is good enough to mask our issues on defense. Almost no other QB alive is.

Hundley's performance so far is a problem, but it's a very small part of the numerous issues on this team.

I'm not totally convinced that we're going to beat the Browns much less come up with the minimum 5-6 more wins that we would need to salvage the season.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Without a running game .... I doubt either backup could have one. Plus the defense was bad.

Oh I agree, but I'm just wondering why it is that MM just seems to have the door slammed shut on the idea of even giving Callahan a chance. I'm not really a Callahan believer, but considering Rodgers ain't about to go magically walking through that door, you'd think he'd at least have a bit of flexibility in being willing to try the other QB if one isn't working. Right now he seems to have neither flexibility in his playbook nor his QB choices. I'm typically all on MM's side, but what he's doing right now ain't looking good.

 

[Carl 2]

Oh I agree, but I'm just wondering why it is that MM just seems to have the door slammed shut on the idea of even giving Callahan a chance. I'm not really a Callahan believer, but considering Rodgers ain't about to go magically walking through that door, you'd think he'd at least have a bit of flexibility in being willing to try the other QB if one isn't working. Right now he seems to have neither flexibility in his playbook nor his QB choices. I'm typically all on MM's side, but what he's doing right now ain't looking good.

Difference with Hundley and Callahan is that Hundley has an NFL starter-caliber arm and Callahan doesn't.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Difference with Hundley and Callahan is that Hundley has an NFL starter-caliber arm and Callahan doesn't.

If that is the case, it goes to my other point then about Ted Thompson's scouting. He seems to be missing on finding decent backup QBs as of late.

 

[Carl 2]

If that is the case, it goes to my other point then about Ted Thompson's scouting. He seems to be missing on finding decent backup QBs as of late.

May not be the case. That's just what it appears to me when watching the two.

 

[Forget Favre]

So ... Right now the big 3 in TT, MM and DC are under the microscope, but since DC already has his own thread I won't get into him and ... not really much to be said there anyway.

Right now on offense though we got the QB issue and thus far even with a bye week and actually having a healthier OL than Detroit, our offense has minimal drives down the field and continues to shoot itself in the foot anyway. Now I'm looking at a few different factors at play here.

Hundley does have to take the blame for some of this. He seems to lack the zip and at times the wherewithal to gun a ball in the middle of the field. If you're going to succeed in this league at any level period, you don't have to thread the needle to the degree Rodgers does, but you just can't be that trigger shy and rarely throw so much as 7 or 8 yard balls in the middle of the field. That one big gainer to Cobb it seemed like was about the only one he hit that way. And his situational awareness on the drive ending on the fg right before half ... Just bad instincts there and some things regarding QB instincts is you either have them or you don't. I'm starting to think Hundley doesn't.

But I'm also looking at MM here and this stuff we kept hearing that he was going to take the training wheels off, or that he was going to adapt the offense to more zone read stuff. I also mentioned in the Kendricks thread about wanting to see more bootlegs, PA, rollouts misdirections and getting Kendricks involved rolling out with Hundley. I don't know about you guys but I sure didn't see hardly any of that. Seemed like most of Hundley's rollouts were trying to escape pressure on broken plays or being reluctant to throw in the middle. I just saw nothing different between last game and this. Also, seems MM is still trying to run iso and man-beater routes right now. We ranted and raved about that problem that was caused there WITH Rodgers at QB. Run them with Hundley ... Yikes.

Now ... Obviously MM should at least consider giving Callahan a shot and if it doesn't work, go back to Hundley. But I'm just thinking if you're not interested in turning this more into Hundley's UCLA offense, might as well use a QB who came from a more Pro-style offense.

But I'm also pointing the finger at Ted Thompson and his scouts. You just would think theyd pay attention to certain things like arm strength and throws down the middle. Our offense thrives on that stuff. Flynn was no gunneroo, but he could get a few darts over the middle. Maybe MM lobbied to get Hundley here, I don't know, but right now this whole project with him just has me scratching my head. Surely there's better backups suited to MM's offense.

There is only one Aaron Rodgers and no one else can do the things he does.
Looks like they still have a lot of work to do with Hundley. He will not become a sensation overnight.
Maybe there is a Natural in there ready and waiting to come out, but it's not showing up yet.
After loving watching Rodgers for years doing what he does best, we have to lower our expectations suddenly and that isn't easy with Hundley at the helm.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Difference with Hundley and Callahan is that Hundley has an NFL starter-caliber arm and Callahan doesn't.

I'd rather have an starter-caliber brain than a starter-caliber arm. Hundley does not play smart. He doesn't see guys who are open and he doesn't know how to evade pressure, or even recognize when pressure is even coming for that matter.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

I look at Hundley as being 1 game behind schedule. THIS peformance tonight should've happened against New Orleans that way tonight we maybe get a win or a close loss to build on so that we can blow the doors off Chicago on Sunday. But Hundley laid an egg against the Saints and Mac's play calling stunk up the joint, then we get tonight's debauchle where for 40 minutes Hundley could barely pass gas! I did like how he handled the no huddle, but we can't run that all game without calling our whole O-Line!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Now ... Obviously MM should at least consider giving Callahan a shot and if it doesn't work, go back to Hundley. But I'm just thinking if you're not interested in turning this more into Hundley's UCLA offense, might as well use a QB who came from a more Pro-style offense.

There's absolutely no reason for the Packers to start Callahan. While he might have played in a pro-style offense (I have no idea if he did) you have to realize that he played in Division III.

Without a running game .... I doubt either backup could have one. Plus the defense was bad.

The Packers actually had a decent rushing attack vs. the Lions averaging 4.6 yards per attempt.

I think we learned a lot about what works and doesn't work with Hundley. Hunley played his best while working out of the no-huddle and the shotgun. I'd give Hundley one more game to see if he can carry those things over consistently against the Bores. If not, it's Callahan's turn.

Hundley most had success late in the game because the Lions played vanilla defense.

 

[Mondio]

I can't believe i'm even responding to this. Callahan has been cut by 3 teams in a year. he's a #3 QB on this team. He can run around and make plays 2 preseasons ago against back ups. Hundley can move better, is better physically, and has a stronger arm. There are a lot more tools to work with than Callahan has. He's not getting in unless Hundley goes down. I'm not blown away by Hundley by any means. I'm pretty critical of him actually. But if he learns to see the field and make quicker decisions he has all the tools to get us wins. If he doesn't get it, we end up the same as we would with a QB doesn't have it to begin with.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Division 3 ... Well well Ted Thompson ... That there is just DANDY!!!

I just gotta shake my head at our GM and his contingency plan for Rodgers going down.

 

[Raptorman]

I have to admit, watching Hundley play the last few games has really made me appreciate what Case Keenum is doing in MN. Although, the second half of last nights game was way better than the first for him. IF he can come out like that at the beginning of the next game he might do okay. He needs to be quicker on pulling the trigger as well. That will only come with playing time. Give him a few more games before you write him off.

 

[Mondio]

Division 3 ... Well well Ted Thompson ... That there is just DANDY!!!

I just gotta shake my head at our GM and his contingency plan for Rodgers going down.

and the rest of us shake our heads thinking there is actually a legitimate thought that there is ANY QB in the league that could replace rodgers even adequately relative to what he brings to the offense.

Glennon? took 45 million to sign him Hoyer? got a cool 12 million to toss at him? Foles? only took 11 million for him. Cutler? only 10 million, though I'd argue if we could pay him that to play against it might be worth it. McCown? Saw him single handedly lose a game last week, gave it right away. Sure we could use that. Jones, Barkley, Fitzpatrick and his low level of success everywhere he's been. Keenum, Sanchez, Smith, Orlovsky, Webb, Gabbert, McGloin, Osweiler, LOL Pick one that's a contingency plan LOL

 

[FaninColorado]

Unfortunately for this year's team the injuries have really put the bulls eye onto TT and MM. We all know that Capers should have been gone 5 years ago, but now the whole conversation regarding TT and MM being geniuses is in the limelight now as well. Only a couple past teams have been as fortunate with their starting QB situation as GB has been... Having back to back HoF QB's just doesn't happen except in the rare occasions and TT & MM have ridden the coat tails of BF and AR for the entire time. TT is supposed to be a genius at drafting and all, but now will be looked upon as only winning 1 super bowl with AROD because of his incompetence and unwillingness to get the rare FA help. MM now will be looked at that he can't win games without AR or BF. Capers and TT should be gone at the end of the year, but the whole AROD injury could save their butts for another year. Both of them at the least have been proven to be bigger liabilities than a commodities this year. The question though will be will someone in the front office see it as well and act on it?

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I just saw nothing different between last game and this.

. For all of MM's supposed creativity, I saw nothing to get excited about.

 

[swhitset]

. For all of MM's supposed creativity, I saw nothing to get excited about.

I think his creativity is stunted by his stubbornness. He is slow to react and in a game where your defense doesn't give you many chances, you can't afford to be hesitant to respond.

 

[rodell330]

Rodgers should ask for 60 million a year. This injury exposed so much about this franchise and It's stink without 1 player...he'd be smart to ask for it. They are clearly a bottom 4 team without him and now the world knows it as well. MM is helpless without him, and so is his stale offense.

With that being said, it doesn't matter if it's Hundley or Callahan at this point. They are on their way to a top 5 pick for sure.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

and the rest of us shake our heads thinking there is actually a legitimate thought that there is ANY QB in the league that could replace rodgers even adequately relative to what he brings to the offense.

I think we're really actually trying to ask for Matt Flynn like performances out of our backup. I mean, it should be no surprise Flynn never was nor ever will be on Rodgers's level, but he got comfortable enough to at least operate the controls of MM's offense and at least exhibit the tendencies you want to see out of NFL QBs.

My concern with Hundley is that it's year 3 now with him, we had a bye week to prepare him for this game, and he looks highly uncomfortable and almost reluctant to step up in the pocket and fire. Rodgers or no, MM's offense is built around a QB's ability to do that. I also don't think Matt Flynn would have missed this ...

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...ide-open-jordy-nelson-misses-easy-packers-td/

To me, I put the fault on Ted Thompson for not drafting a QB out of a college whose offense taught that principle. Jim Mora at UCLA did not do this. If Ted Thompson is going to keep drafting from that awful Pac-12 conference, maybe he should draft his QBs from USC where at least they run some semblance of a pro-style offense. Also, as to those QBs listed, I don't think I'd go for them. I might make a trade with Baltimore for Mallett though since we could probably get him for practically nothing. He's got a big arm and would probably catch on quickly to MM's offense considering he comes from a pocket-passing offense, and our O-line is better than the Ravens and Texans.

 

[Mondio]

and Aaron Rodgers was Jeff Tedford product out of college and we all know that those QB's suck in the NFL. Hundley looks to have some tools to play QB, he looks to not quite know how to use them. Everyone else on that list has shown me that or less. Over and over again. and if you don't think Flynn would have missed that, I remember Rodgers missing a wide open Randall Cobb inside like the 5 yard line last year when everyone said we never ran "manbeater" routes. LOL. It's football. Hundley hasn't played well. NOBODY on that list would give me confidence they would either. After his rookie season, everyone is talking about Hundley is going to be worth a 2nd rounder at least. I wasn't. I wasn't this year, but many still were. Clearly people, coaches and fans, saw things they liked about him. But now that he's played a couple games, now they "know" someone else would have been better.

He needs to play better. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Think of how much better we'd be with Sanchez or Leinart LOL USC QBs oh my

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I have to admit, watching Hundley play the last few games has really made me appreciate what Case Keenum is doing in MN. Although, the second half of last nights game was way better than the first for him. IF he can come out like that at the beginning of the next game he might do okay. He needs to be quicker on pulling the trigger as well. That will only come with playing time. Give him a few more games before you write him off.

We will, and hell I wasn't even calling to bench him because I don't think it's all Hundley. I think MM is still being reluctant to get rid of the training wheels, and also not using enough plays that could move Hundley around and get him throwing without backing up.

But at the same time, just as we gotta lower the expectations on him compared to Rodgers, the other edge of that sword is that there might be other options out there that give us a better chance to win, and neither coaches nor fans should just write em off.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think Hundley improved some this week, he initially looked more comfortable and had some nice first downs early on.. but obviously not enough to overcome the poor Defensive play. Our Defense couldn't get off the field, they recorded just 1 sack and very few pressures. Any competent QB that you let dance around the pocket will tear you a new one. We also had one drive that stalled at the 20 yard line and got ZERO points? I also saw some throws into tight coverage that were pretty accurate and a sliver from becoming big plays. The game often hinges on keeping drives alive and those several missed plays were deal breakers in Lions territory on at least 2 drives that I remember.
Our game plan should have been focusing on short to midrange higher probability pass plays to get the ball out quickly with an occasional long throw to keep them honest (using TE's and FB in aggressive pass coverage normally helps because they can generally win the physical battle), running the ball (with our RB who just had 2 consecutive 100+ yard games) and converting 1st downs and eating the clock. Instead we start by throwing behind the line of scrimmage 5 of the first 7 plays?
My goal would have been to have the ball for around 33-35+ minutes. That would steal a drive from Detroit. Instead Detroit methodically controlled the clock and left our Offense on the sideline and had the ball for nearly 37 minutes! while meanwhile our Defense was exhausted. Below average execution and even worse game management will cost you most games and this game was a prime example.

 

[rodell330]

McCarthy has so much confidence in Hundley it shows in the gameplans he had against the Saints and the Lions Haha. Hundley has the same issues he had coming out of college which is why he was a fifth round pick. Slow to process the coverage and holds the ball wayy to long.