Lazard Situation...

[Deleted member 6794]

The book on Amari isn't written yet. He's getting more opportunities in Houston, so we don't know how he'll develop now. Nobody here will convince me that we didn't blow our chance to develop a decent slot receiver by catering to Aaron Rodgers and bringing his best friend in. BUT, back to the point. The whole discussion re: Cobb is in reference to Oldschool's post about keeping Cobb another season. There's really no point. He's not an effective mentor, he's a shell of his former self and I'd rather see a rookie or young player suited for the slot take his snaps.

Amari ended up being a bust for the Packers, I don't care a whole lot what he will be doing for another team. While it's fair to suggest the Packers shouldn't bring Cobb back for another season he shouldn't be blamed for Rodgers not working out in Green Bay.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Amari ended up being a bust for the Packers, I don't care a whole lot what he will be doing for another team. While it's fair to suggest the Packers shouldn't bring Cobb back for another season he shouldn't be blamed for Rodgers not working out in Green Bay.

Alright, let's take names out of it...

Person A gets hired to do a job.

Person B who's done the job decently for years gets hired several weeks later before Person A ever gets to really show what he can do with that job.

Person B just so happens to be the best friend of a disgruntled employee that the business is doing its best to keep happy.

Only one of Person A and Person B can be on the field at once.

But, Person B's presence isn't a reason Person A didn't get experience to develop into a role?

K.

 

[Mondio]

Alright, let's take names out of it...

Person A gets hired to do a job.

Person B who's done the job decently for years gets hired several weeks later before Person A ever gets to really show what he can do with that job.

Person B just so happens to be the best friend of a disgruntled employee that the business is doing its best to keep happy.

Only one of Person A and Person B can be on the field at once.

But, Person B's presence isn't a reason Person A didn't get experience to develop into a role?

K.

except that person did get chances to show and didn't. Ran sloppy routes, ran wrong routes and put the ball on the ground pretty much every single game he was in. There were ample opportunities to earn playing time last year with the revolving door of injuries and poor play.

Person B might be a friend, but person B is also better than any other option they had in that role. Person B still made some important plays last year vs a guy who made more plays for the opponents.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

except that person did get chances to show and didn't. Ran sloppy routes, ran wrong routes and put the ball on the ground pretty much every single game he was in. There were ample opportunities to earn playing time last year with the revolving door of injuries and poor play.

Person B might be a friend, but person B is also better than any other option they had in that role. Person B still made some important plays last year vs a guy who made more plays for the opponents.

So... toss Person A under the bus by relegating him to special teams. Don't commit to letting him show his skillset and let him toil away without supporting him or working his way into the job. Then watch him do pretty well with ZERO experience working for another company after letting him go. All while Person B is aging in front of our eyes and we will just be hiring another Person A.

This is getting dumb, but you get my point.

 

[Mondio]

I don't think they tossed him under a buss. I think he had ample opportunities but was never good enough to warrant more. Nobody has had any illusions about what Cobb is. He's aged, often injured and effective but hardly game breaking, when healthy. This team didn't give cobb everything and let the #2 option wither knowing full well they'd need #2 often enough anyway.

I think it was the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. I think they used him on special teams to get him reps on the field and in games and give him chances while they brought him along hoping he'd catch on at WR on the practice field where he still got the majority of his work.

 

[tynimiller]

So... toss Person A under the bus by relegating him to special teams. Don't commit to letting him show his skillset and let him toil away without supporting him or working his way into the job. Then watch him do pretty well with ZERO experience working for another company after letting him go. All while Person B is aging in front of our eyes and we will just be hiring another Person A.

This is getting dumb, but you get my point.

Amari not only was given chances, he was given chances after continued failures.

I would also personally think Amari and Aaron never hit it off. Plain and simple a factor as well. Honestly, I envision Amari being a WR3/4 in the league for a decade or so - he simply sucked at being a returner, but I always will say slot type WR guy he for sure was.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Amari not only was given chances, he was given chances after continued failures.

I would also personally think Amari and Aaron never hit it off. Plain and simple a factor as well. Honestly, I envision Amari being a WR3/4 in the league for a decade or so - he simply sucked at being a returner, but I always will say slot type WR guy he for sure was.

I agree he never was a return man and we kept banging our heads against the wall watching him struggle out there but still trotted him out to do his job (meanwhile we had a probowl talent on the roster at this position). Demoralized and didn't develop Amari at all.
I think he wasn't picking up Aaron's vibe and found it difficult to ask him questions to get on the same page. Sounds like despite Cobb's "mentorship" role he didn't spend extra time to help them get the signals in or whatever. Either Aaron likes you or you're riding the bench I guess. This is just my opinion, obviously.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I agree he never was a return man and we kept banging our heads against the wall watching him struggle out there but still trotted him out to do his job (meanwhile we had a probowl talent on the roster at this position). Demoralized and didn't develop Amari at all.
I think he wasn't picking up Aaron's vibe and found it difficult to ask him questions to get on the same page. Sounds like despite Cobb's "mentorship" role he didn't spend extra time to help them get the signals in or whatever. Either Aaron likes you or you're riding the bench I guess. This is just my opinion, obviously.

In my opinion it's ridiculous to blame anyone else than Amari for him turning out to be a bust for the Packers.

In addition it would have been a terrible approach for the Packers to hand him the starting job at slot receiver solely based on him being a third round pick. It's standard for everyone to face competition at the NFL level and he wasn't able to move up the depth chart. He's solely responsible for that though.

 

[Mondio]

In addition it would have been a terrible approach for the Packers to hand him the starting job at slot receiver solely based on him being a third round pick. It's standard for everyone to face competition at the NFL level and he wasn't able to move up the depth chart. He's solely responsible for that though.

I heard a quote from someone on the 49ers'. Think it was Deebo maybe, but they were asking about the QB situation in San Fran and he spoke how hard those guys were working and their qualities etc and then asked if they brought someone in or who would be the starting QB next year and he basically said, whoever earns it. Coach doesn't hand anyone a starting job that hasn't fought for it. Just how it's supposed to be. If you can't compete on the practice field, you're not much good to the team on game day IMO.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Alright, let's take names out of it...

Person A gets hired to do a job.

Person B who's done the job decently for years gets hired several weeks later before Person A ever gets to really show what he can do with that job.

Person B just so happens to be the best friend of a disgruntled employee that the business is doing its best to keep happy.

Only one of Person A and Person B can be on the field at once.

But, Person B's presence isn't a reason Person A didn't get experience to develop into a role?

K.

Amari was not a good receiver in his time in Green Bay. That is on Amari, nobody else. Unless you feel that Cobb and Amari could not split snaps or even play at the same time? Let's not use Cobb as a scapegoat for Amari's poor performance in Green Bay. Let's not pretend Amari lit the world on fire in Houston either, he played 111 snaps for Houston and earned 17 targets which he turned into 12 catches for 154 yards. Claiming that Amari would have developed without Cobb around sort of ignores that other receivers develop with other players at the same position ALL THE TIME. I recall a guy named Jordy Nelson who got pretty good despite playing with Greg Jennings and Finley.

Unless a guy is playing a position in which only ONE player is on the field at a time, it's on the player to earn the right to play; Amari could have played at other receiver options if he had earned that chance.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In my opinion it's ridiculous to blame anyone else than Amari for him turning out to be a bust for the Packers.

While I agree with you and others that from what we know, Amari should shoulder the blame for his lack of success in Green Bay, I am open to the fact that there possibly were other causes. Green Bay may have just been a bad fit for him, which could include the City, the team, the system, the coaches, his teammates. We probably will never hear all the details, but if he goes on to have a successful NFL career elsewhere, then more power to him and the Packers might want to figure out their end of things.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Interesting to read that Yardbarker thinks MVS could be a cap cut causality for the Chiefs. Makes sense though, they overpaid for a guy that really didn't put up $10M a year like stats. I think this will be the likely buyers remorse if a team spends that kind of money on Lazard.

"Valdes-Scantling came up big for the Chiefs in the AFC Championship, but he struggled for most of the year before that performance. Kansas City has a lot of choices to make at wideout during the offseason, including what to do with MVS. The team can save $7 million against the cap in 2023 by cutting the wideout."

NFL players who could be salary-cap casualties this offseason

The NFL salary cap and non-guaranteed contracts result in major players being cut each offseason. These 25 players could be cap casualties in the 2023 offseason.

www.yardbarker.com

 

[tynimiller]

Interesting to read that Yardbarker thinks MVS could be a cap cut causality for the Chiefs. Makes sense though, they overpaid for a guy that really didn't put up $10M a year like stats. I think this will be the likely buyers remorse if a team spends that kind of money on Lazard.

"Valdes-Scantling came up big for the Chiefs in the AFC Championship, but he struggled for most of the year before that performance. Kansas City has a lot of choices to make at wideout during the offseason, including what to do with MVS. The team can save $7 million against the cap in 2023 by cutting the wideout."

NFL players who could be salary-cap casualties this offseason

The NFL salary cap and non-guaranteed contracts result in major players being cut each offseason. These 25 players could be cap casualties in the 2023 offseason.

www.yardbarker.com

The Chiefs brought him in to be their third receiving option - he did just fine there and was BIG in the playoffs when he had to be. His contract structure and the players KC will possibly prioritize over him is why a cut would make sense and many called this possibility at the time we saw his contract structure. If I'm KC, I'd rather cut MVS and use that savings to resign JuJu - go draft a speed demon receiver.

 

[Pkrjones]

Interesting to read that Yardbarker thinks MVS could be a cap cut causality for the Chiefs. Makes sense though, they overpaid for a guy that really didn't put up $10M a year like stats. I think this will be the likely buyers remorse if a team spends that kind of money on Lazard.

"Valdes-Scantling came up big for the Chiefs in the AFC Championship, but he struggled for most of the year before that performance. Kansas City has a lot of choices to make at wideout during the offseason, including what to do with MVS. The team can save $7 million against the cap in 2023 by cutting the wideout."

NFL players who could be salary-cap casualties this offseason

The NFL salary cap and non-guaranteed contracts result in major players being cut each offseason. These 25 players could be cap casualties in the 2023 offseason.

www.yardbarker.com

So MVS basically played '22 on a 1 yr, roughly $11Mil deal and KC is now looking to shed some cap. Not the 1st to do so, and since they can save $7Mil on the cap and MVS helped win the SB (with his play in the AFCCG) looks like a win-win. MVS is 28 (29 in October) so will still sign a 3 or 4 yr deal with somebody, possibly for similar $$ as the WR free agency pool is weak.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So MVS basically played '22 on a 1 yr, roughly $11Mil deal and KC is now looking to shed some cap. Not the 1st to do so, and since they can save $7Mil on the cap and MVS helped win the SB (with his play in the AFCCG) looks like a win-win. MVS is 28 (29 in October) so will still sign a 3 or 4 yr deal with somebody, possibly for similar $$ as the WR free agency pool is weak.

Kind of nuts, but pretty much breaks down that way. Right team at the right place, is more how I look at MVS's 2022.

 

[OldSchool101]

Even if Cobb was a mentor to Amari that doesn't mean he deserves any blame for Rodgers not developing into a decent NFL player.

True. If I recall? he was essentially a mentor to the entire WR room. It was just more the family ties to Amari from childhood combined with similar roles on Offense and ST that linked the two

 

[OldSchool101]

Kind of nuts, but pretty much breaks down that way. Right team at the right place, is more how I look at MVS's 2022.

I was just thinking how blessed he is. He had exactly 777 regular season snaps and he’s now sporting a SB Ring

He disappeared in the Superbowl though

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Interesting to read that Yardbarker thinks MVS could be a cap cut causality for the Chiefs. Makes sense though, they overpaid for a guy that really didn't put up $10M a year like stats. I think this will be the likely buyers remorse if a team spends that kind of money on Lazard.

"Valdes-Scantling came up big for the Chiefs in the AFC Championship, but he struggled for most of the year before that performance. Kansas City has a lot of choices to make at wideout during the offseason, including what to do with MVS. The team can save $7 million against the cap in 2023 by cutting the wideout."

NFL players who could be salary-cap casualties this offseason

The NFL salary cap and non-guaranteed contracts result in major players being cut each offseason. These 25 players could be cap casualties in the 2023 offseason.

www.yardbarker.com

I'm not surprised the Chiefs think about moving on from MVS after only one seasons. Not at all.

So MVS basically played '22 on a 1 yr, roughly $11Mil deal and KC is now looking to shed some cap.

FWIW MVS would have earned $8.88 million in one season with the Chiefs if they move on from him before March 17.

 

[Schultz]

I think the acquisition of Toney has as much to do with them thinking of cutting MVS as anything else.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Amari was not a good receiver in his time in Green Bay. That is on Amari, nobody else. Unless you feel that Cobb and Amari could not split snaps or even play at the same time? Let's not use Cobb as a scapegoat for Amari's poor performance in Green Bay. Let's not pretend Amari lit the world on fire in Houston either, he played 111 snaps for Houston and earned 17 targets which he turned into 12 catches for 154 yards. Claiming that Amari would have developed without Cobb around sort of ignores that other receivers develop with other players at the same position ALL THE TIME. I recall a guy named Jordy Nelson who got pretty good despite playing with Greg Jennings and Finley.

Unless a guy is playing a position in which only ONE player is on the field at a time, it's on the player to earn the right to play; Amari could have played at other receiver options if he had earned that chance.

How many years did it take Jordy or Davante? How many years did we give Amari? Further, extrapolate Amari's production in Houston and compare it to what Doubs did for us this year. We gave up on a prospect, no doubt about it.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

In my opinion it's ridiculous to blame anyone else than Amari for him turning out to be a bust for the Packers.

In addition it would have been a terrible approach for the Packers to hand him the starting job at slot receiver solely based on him being a third round pick. It's standard for everyone to face competition at the NFL level and he wasn't able to move up the depth chart. He's solely responsible for that though.

Players get opportunities based off of draft status in the NFL all the time. If you don't know that, you need to pay more attention.

 

[tynimiller]

How many years did it take Jordy or Davante? How many years did we give Amari? Further, extrapolate Amari's production in Houston and compare it to what Doubs did for us this year. We gave up on a prospect, no doubt about it.

Amari year 2 vs Doubs year 1...they are not interchangeable.

I'm an Amari guy, LOVED the pick, have a signed jersey I quickly bought....I was wrong. Fit here for who knows how many reasons was not right - it was evident his rookie year time and time again and confirmed even more time and time again in his second year.

 

[Mondio]

Amari year 2 vs Doubs year 1...they are not interchangeable.

I'm an Amari guy, LOVED the pick, have a signed jersey I quickly bought....I was wrong. Fit here for who knows how many reasons was not right - it was evident his rookie year time and time again and confirmed even more time and time again in his second year.

I also like the potential Amari had, but he showed me nothing really. a few brief glimpses in the midst of a lot of stuff pointing me the other way.

 

[Magooch]

Players get opportunities based off of draft status in the NFL all the time. If you don't know that, you need to pay more attention.

Of course they do. And that's probably why Amari got to stick around as long as he did.

He offered absolutely nothing on offense. Even with an absolutely decimated receiving corps he was a total non-factor.

On special teams it was even worse; he was an outright liability and one could argue that removing Amari from return duties was one of the single greatest in-season improvements we made all year long.

If Amari were an undrafted FA he probably would not have even made the final roster for this season. His draft status almost certainly afforded him more opportunity than others received and clearly he failed to capitalize on that.

If you want to make a case that Cobb shouldn't have been on the team this year that's fine but I have no idea how anyone could seriously try and spin Amari's failings as Cobb's fault.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Of course they do. And that's probably why Amari got to stick around as long as he did.

He offered absolutely nothing on offense. Even with an absolutely decimated receiving corps he was a total non-factor.

On special teams it was even worse; he was an outright liability and one could argue that removing Amari from return duties was one of the single greatest in-season improvements we made all year long.

If Amari were an undrafted FA he probably would not have even made the final roster for this season. His draft status almost certainly afforded him more opportunity than others received and clearly he failed to capitalize on that.

If you want to make a case that Cobb shouldn't have been on the team this year that's fine but I have no idea how anyone could seriously try and spin Amari's failings as Cobb's fault.

As "long" as he did? He was in GB for 1.5 seasons. We gave Adams and Jordy years to develop and work through their struggles despite many writing them off early in their careers. Again, nobody here is going to convince me that we didn't give up on him too soon.