Kick in the Head
- Thread starter vixtalkn
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bavpb
Cheesehead
The NFL should change the rules and allow kickers to use golf clubs. :wink:
Hammer
Cheesehead
vixtalkn said:
DePack
Cheesehead
Yea....allegedly he told Sherman he couldn't kick a 48 yarder that would have put us within 7 with about 4-5 minutes left. Great kickers "want the ball" in pressure situations.
CaliforniaCheez
Cheesehead
Well Vix I thought last off season that Longwell was on his last leg. Then a 53 yarder in the rain with a new holder against San Diego when the Charger kicker had missed 3 was enough to convince me that Longwell should be kept. I became a supporter.
Now I'm ambivalent. Ted will look at the market and compare Longwell to the market. There are plenty of kickers always looking for work. It depends on how Longwell compares to the market. If signed it should not be a long contract.
Now I'm ambivalent. Ted will look at the market and compare Longwell to the market. There are plenty of kickers always looking for work. It depends on how Longwell compares to the market. If signed it should not be a long contract.
yooperfan
Cheesehead
It's obvious that Longwell has lost his confidence which besides his leg is a major factor for a kicker.CaliforniaCheez said:
I don't think good kickers are a dime a dozen but the scouts should be bringing in alot of legs to compete with him in training camp. If he gets beat out then "so long it's been nice to know ya". If he gets it all back together, great, but his kick offs should be factored in to whether we keep him or not also.
digsthepack
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The guy has one of the best percentages in the league in one of the most unforgiving climates in the league...cut him some slack. I tend to believe he has lost confidence due to the problems he has experienced with the holding this year. Time and some success will remedy that.
You cannot discount how important confidence in the hold is. Imagine you are a golfer, and your ball rolls off the tee at the precise moment your club face should be making contact. When it occurs enough, your swing will be affected with the anticipation of that happening......whether or not it actually does. That is exactly what Longwell is going through right now.
You cannot discount how important confidence in the hold is. Imagine you are a golfer, and your ball rolls off the tee at the precise moment your club face should be making contact. When it occurs enough, your swing will be affected with the anticipation of that happening......whether or not it actually does. That is exactly what Longwell is going through right now.
CaliforniaCheez
Cheesehead
Signing him depends on what he will do in the future not what he has done. That is the cold reality of it.
digsthepack
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Of course, Cali. Butto lay all the problems at his feet, pardon the pun, is to overlook the obvious.
yooperfan
Cheesehead
I agree Digs, the holding situation has a bid impact on his confidence and that was not addressed in training camp to his satisfaction.digsthepack said:
But I believe that everything should not have to be exactly on the money for a kicker to make what should be chip shots.
I realize kickers are not real football players and placekicking is an art, but even artists mistakes turn out to be money makers.
CaliforniaCheez
Cheesehead
This upcoming offseason the following kickers will become free agents:
Vinateri
Vanderjagt
Longwell
Nedney
Jose Cortez
Vinateri will be the high priced guy. 10 years experience in all conditions. He averages 1.5 yards more than Longwell on kickoff, a career long of 57 yard FG but has not kicked a fieldgoal over 50 yards since 2002.
Vanderjagt is a dome guy but the Colts have some cap trouble trying to keep a good team together so he may be available. He is almost as old as Favre. He is shorter on kickoffs than Longwell.
Longwell did well in the Georgia Dome with a 53 yarder. Career long of 54 yards equals Vanderjagt but Longwell's kickoffs are longer.
Nedney has the longest kickoff average of the four about 3 yards longer than Longwell. His career long is a 53 Yard FG.
Cortez has bounced around the league and not kicked regularly. His career long is 52 yards and his kickoffs are a yard longer.
Nedney and Cortez are less reliable and likely not as costly. Vanderjagt's age and lack of outdoor experience makes him risky. Vinateri may be too costly to sign.
Longwell's historical accuracy, stats and age (he is younger than all but Cortez, 9 months) compared to the others and depending on salary demands he seems to be the most likely candidate to be signed by the Packers as their kicker next season.
Vinateri
Vanderjagt
Longwell
Nedney
Jose Cortez
Vinateri will be the high priced guy. 10 years experience in all conditions. He averages 1.5 yards more than Longwell on kickoff, a career long of 57 yard FG but has not kicked a fieldgoal over 50 yards since 2002.
Vanderjagt is a dome guy but the Colts have some cap trouble trying to keep a good team together so he may be available. He is almost as old as Favre. He is shorter on kickoffs than Longwell.
Longwell did well in the Georgia Dome with a 53 yarder. Career long of 54 yards equals Vanderjagt but Longwell's kickoffs are longer.
Nedney has the longest kickoff average of the four about 3 yards longer than Longwell. His career long is a 53 Yard FG.
Cortez has bounced around the league and not kicked regularly. His career long is 52 yards and his kickoffs are a yard longer.
Nedney and Cortez are less reliable and likely not as costly. Vanderjagt's age and lack of outdoor experience makes him risky. Vinateri may be too costly to sign.
Longwell's historical accuracy, stats and age (he is younger than all but Cortez, 9 months) compared to the others and depending on salary demands he seems to be the most likely candidate to be signed by the Packers as their kicker next season.
all about da packers
Cheesehead
What about Rackers from Cards?
jdlax
Cheesehead
The Cardinals signed Rackers to a 4 year extention.
arrowgargantuan
Cheesehead
Cortez is complete garbage...less reliable is a huge understatement. you saw him kick for the niners Cali. unless your kicker breaks his leg, he shouldn't even be considered...
Zero2Cool
I own a website
Sherman when in FG range looks for Ryan to get the nod yes or no on whether he feels he can make the kick. Ryan wasn't confident he could make the kick so Sherman went for it.
PWT36
Cheesehead
I can't believe any knowledgeable Packer fan who has been watching Packer football for any period of time, would not know that Ryan longwell is the best Fg kicker in packer history. And would think he would not attempt a Fg in "slight"???? wind conditions at lambeau Field against the Steelers. Of coarse, that is inaccurate statement of the wind conditions at field level at lambeau Field at the time in question. If it would have been slight wind conditions at the time, Coach Sherman would not have signaled to Longwell if he could make a 48 yard FG, he would have just sent in the FG team. Because of the lower of profile of the Top part of stadium on south end compared with the rest of the stadium since stadium renovation, IT has caused more severe swirling winds at lambeau that before the renovation. Here is a story appearing in the Press-Gazette today (WED) about the problems of kicking Field goals with an inexperience holder Sander and Longwell------ "No easy fix for holding problem"
By Rob Demovsky
PackersNews.com
During all the hours Bryan Barker and B.J. Sander spent together last season, the two punters almost never talked about holding.
Given all Sander had to learn from Barker about punting, maybe there wasn’t time. The way Sander has struggled this season as a holder, the coaching staff probably should have asked Barker to impart some of his holding wisdom.
As a punter, Sander rebounded from his disastrous rookie season and has become serviceable. His net punting average is a respectable 38.1 yards, nearly five yards better than Barker was last season.
As a holder, Sander is no Barker.
Sander mishandled a snap in Sunday’s 33-25 win at Atlanta. He bobbled what was a slightly high snap from Rob Davis and failed to get the ball down in time for Ryan Longwell to attempt a 51-yard field goal in the third quarter. Sander did bounce back and help Longwell convert kicks of 53 and 51 yards in the second half, but kicking problems probably have cost the Packers two games this season.
The first sign of trouble between Longwell and Sander came in Week 1 at Detroit, when Sander dropped a snap and Longwell never made an attempt on what would have been a chip-shot field goal. There was a missed extra point and field goal in a one-point loss to Tampa Bay and two missed field goals in a three-point loss at Minnesota. The cold-weather games, where kicking can be a crap shoot, haven’t even begun.
Longwell has had the fortune of working with some of the best holders in the business. His last two were Doug Pederson and Barker, who took over in Week 5 last season after Pederson was injured.
According to Barker, holding takes natural ability.
“It’s not something that you generally train for and just become the holder,â€
By Rob Demovsky
PackersNews.com
During all the hours Bryan Barker and B.J. Sander spent together last season, the two punters almost never talked about holding.
Given all Sander had to learn from Barker about punting, maybe there wasn’t time. The way Sander has struggled this season as a holder, the coaching staff probably should have asked Barker to impart some of his holding wisdom.
As a punter, Sander rebounded from his disastrous rookie season and has become serviceable. His net punting average is a respectable 38.1 yards, nearly five yards better than Barker was last season.
As a holder, Sander is no Barker.
Sander mishandled a snap in Sunday’s 33-25 win at Atlanta. He bobbled what was a slightly high snap from Rob Davis and failed to get the ball down in time for Ryan Longwell to attempt a 51-yard field goal in the third quarter. Sander did bounce back and help Longwell convert kicks of 53 and 51 yards in the second half, but kicking problems probably have cost the Packers two games this season.
The first sign of trouble between Longwell and Sander came in Week 1 at Detroit, when Sander dropped a snap and Longwell never made an attempt on what would have been a chip-shot field goal. There was a missed extra point and field goal in a one-point loss to Tampa Bay and two missed field goals in a three-point loss at Minnesota. The cold-weather games, where kicking can be a crap shoot, haven’t even begun.
Longwell has had the fortune of working with some of the best holders in the business. His last two were Doug Pederson and Barker, who took over in Week 5 last season after Pederson was injured.
According to Barker, holding takes natural ability.
“It’s not something that you generally train for and just become the holder,â€
CaliforniaCheez
Cheesehead
Longwell's numbers are down because his numbers depend on the success of the offense. The offense has not as successful as in the past. Longwell got 27% of his seasons field goals in the Atlanta game 2 over 50 yards! My mistaken perception was that Longwell's kick offs were not so good.
This 2005 season Longwell is 18th in kickoff distance and the Packrs are 12th in KO return yards allowed.
Vintari is kicking off 0.4 yards further but Patriots coverage is .4 yards less so their net is the same as the Packers.
Vanderjagt is .9 yards less on KO and Indianapolis coverage is .5 better for a net .4 yards less.
Nedney KO's are 3.5 yards less with a net of 3.9 yards less.
Cortez KO is 3.7 yards less than Longwell and Eagle coverage is .7 yards better for a 3.0 yards net less.
After looking at the kickers who are free agents(in my previous post) I now am sure Longwell should be signed for the 2006 season. If he is signed with 2005 cap money all the better.
This 2005 season Longwell is 18th in kickoff distance and the Packrs are 12th in KO return yards allowed.
Vintari is kicking off 0.4 yards further but Patriots coverage is .4 yards less so their net is the same as the Packers.
Vanderjagt is .9 yards less on KO and Indianapolis coverage is .5 better for a net .4 yards less.
Nedney KO's are 3.5 yards less with a net of 3.9 yards less.
Cortez KO is 3.7 yards less than Longwell and Eagle coverage is .7 yards better for a 3.0 yards net less.
After looking at the kickers who are free agents(in my previous post) I now am sure Longwell should be signed for the 2006 season. If he is signed with 2005 cap money all the better.
shanks2122
Cheesehead
i think if we sign a new kicker hes gotta be tested in the cold weather or we better just sign longwell back, him and sanders need to get alot more reps together plus i think there might be friction between those two
calicheesehead
Cheesehead
Sea of Cortez was filled with tears.
Greg C.
Cheesehead
In Longwell's nine years in the league, this is only the second off year he's had. For the other seven years he's been outstanding. And there's no reason to think he won't be again.
By the way, has anybody besides me noticed that his kickoffs are longer this year?
By the way, has anybody besides me noticed that his kickoffs are longer this year?
all about da packers said:
it's funny you should mention Rackers...when my dad & i were at the aug 26th game, he bought what he thought was a GB Packers cap - we were sitting at the game & the guy behind us tapped him on the shoulder & said, "do you know on the back of your cap it says GREEN BAY RACKERS?" we NEVER noticed it - it was hysterical!!!!! :lol: :lol:
CaliforniaCheez
Cheesehead
If the Packers are unwilling to spend money on long term contract for Longwell, Vineteri, or Vanderjagt. It may be that the Packers tag Longwell and look for the long term solution in 07. Who else would be tagged.
IPBprez
Cheesehead
yooperfan said:I agree Digs, the holding situation has a bid impact on his confidence and that was not addressed in training camp to his satisfaction.digsthepack said:
But I believe that everything should not have to be exactly on the money for a kicker to make what should be chip shots.
I realize kickers are not real football players and placekicking is an art, but even artists mistakes turn out to be money makers.
Good comment, really..... art form and all that.....
I think DIGS is forgetting one huge item in this discussion...
It's the kicker's job to COMMUNICATE to the Holder what needs to be done properly. Longwell came right out and admitted they don't talk to each other. ... So, what? Sander has to play 20 questions, until Longwell slips and out comes the right info? No, I don't buy it.
Sander is the rookie - as I posted elsewhere... and it's Longwell's job, whether he likes it or not, whether it's convenient or not, whether he thinks it's kooly-high, or not - I don't give a tinker's damn - it's Ryan's job to step up and be a team player, not the elite-ist. Longwell has been the source of the errors - because he refuses to play ball with the holder - who is looking for guidance, from (guess what) a Professional, with tenure.
To me, Longwell has taken on this white-collar/blue-collar attitude of Mike Sherman and is expecting to get away with relegat-ing someone else to inform Sander of what needs to be done. He's a crybaby.
