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Jay Glazer Speaks Out - And, I agree.....

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by IPBprez, Dec 3, 2005.

  1. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Earlier this morning on the NFL Preview Show on FoxSports TV - Each Pundit was asked what he would wish for this week......

    Jay Glazer's turn came up and he focused directly on GREEN BAY.

    More directly - he focused on the GB Receivers....

    Glazer: "Come on guys, run the right routes for a change, (pleading voice) puh-leeeease! Help Brett out for a change! I mean, c'mon... is it that hard to (for once) for you run the correct route(s)? Is it? Do you watch film, at all? Let Favre go out with some dignity, at least!


    I have to say - I totally agree here... More often times than not, these Wideouts (this year) including Double-D have all allowed themselves to be thrown off most of their routes. Several games ago, against the Falcons and the Donatell Defense - it looked like they may be getting it - but the very next game, we found it wasn't so....

    This probably is.... the main issue for why the Offense is not putting points on the board when now, we're seeing our Offensive Line finally figure a few things out - even without a running game, or a smidgeon of it... we should still be scoring TD's thru the air.

    My side question to this... Are the Players doing it on purpose? Or, are they simply a group of weaklings who "like" getting pushed around.. like church mice? Or...... what would it be?

    Jay Glazer nails this - outta da Park!
     
  2. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    It's hard for us as spectators to know if what Glazer says is correct because we don't know what routes the receivers are supposed to be running. If I had to guess, it's not so much that they are running the wrong base route, but that they are making incorrect adjustments off of it.

    From what I understand, the Packer's offense relies on the receivers making the correct decision on how to adjust their routes depending on what the defense is doing. In these situations it's important for the receiver and the QB to be on the same page because in many cases, the QB throws the ball before the receiver makes his break. Because this relies on the receiver to be making the correct reads and decisions on the fly, it's the main reason it generally takes receivers 2-3 years to become effective in the offense.

    Either way, there's no excuse for Driver with 7 years of experience, Ferguson with 5 and Chatman with 3 to be making mistakes on their base or adjusted routes. Even the newcomer, Thurman was with them during the end of last season so it's not like he's still learning the offense.
     
  3. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    I agree with Lare that it's hard to judge the routes when we don't know what they are supposed to be. With the turnover in the WR corps this year, I suspect there have been more bad routes than usual. On the other hand, there are some fans who will ALWAYS blame Favre's interceptions on his teammates, no matter how ridiculous the throw, so I'm kind of skeptical of what Glazer says.
     
  4. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    EXACTLY Greg! Do you think the Packers gave Glazer their playbook, and then he sat down and watched hours of game tape to see if the wrs were running the correct routes? Unless the answer is yes, then how the hell could he know?
     
  5. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    yeah Musscy and Greg...

    it's easier for some fans to blame their HOF QB for nfl europe quality receivers, no running game, and poor coaching decisions..isn't it?

    (Why it is..i'll never know..)
     
  6. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

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    We're saying there is no way for us or Glazer to know who's running the correct routes
     
  7. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    HEY PACK66 it is also easier for people to blame a coach and OC for poor execution and effort
     
  8. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I think what's missing here - is the knowledge that while out in the flat - Wideouts can see where the LA Freeway is as opposed to Podunk, Iowa..... The Safeties only step up when the WR's bring , or shorten, their routes. Same with the Corners... If you go to PackersNews and read up on the basics - Larry McCarren actuall spent some time last year bringing up what each of the more simple layouts were.. and who stands where depending on the scheme.

    We don't necessarily NEED to know where the routes are - it's the adjusting that makes all the diff. They are expected to run up about 10 - 18, maybe 20, yards up and turn around, or cut hard left into the middle, or they move up two, possibly three steps .. and THEN cut hard left into the flat and run the seam.... C'mon, you guys know this stuff.... Playing it up like there's some government secret behind all this is nonsense.

    What the unknown would be - is when Favre runs out of the pocket and the WR's caught that action in the corner of their eye - and have the quick study to know and turn around or run where ever it may be open in about 2 seconds... when currently the whole middle may be full of players all looking for where Jimmy Hoffa is buried.

    Jay knows even the armchair types could figure out exactly where Wideouts will tend to go on a Pass-action play - the field is only so big, ya know.
     
  9. sixone220

    sixone220 Cheesehead

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    This is a great example of something wrong with the forum and what is being discussed in the other thread right now.

    The issue is fans blaming Ints on others and not Brett.

    First pt is excellent. The HOF QB should get the benefit over NFL Europe caliber wrs.


    Second pt starts to stray. The lack of a running game forces more throwing which can lead to Ints but doesn't have anything to do with the blame being on Brett or the wrs.

    Third pt is just another Sherman jab. How does a coaching decision have anything to do with who's fault an Int is? If Sherossley hadn't called a passing play, then Brett wouldn't have thrown the pick?????
     
  10. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    It is simple.

    If he would have called a running play and there would have been loss of 4 yards then it would have been a coaches mistake.

    Personally, I would take a four yard loss and a punt than a INT. But then again... Either way it is a coaching mistake.

    Unless of course you had a QB who did not try to gun it in to double coverage on the only W.R. he had confidence in, and he instead dumped it over the middle to a wide open W.R. over the middle that he had no confidence in and gave him a shot to prove himself.

    Unless of course you never drafted the W.R. that was open over the middle but the QB has no confidence in.

    Unless of course you had drafted a better D.B. that would have not made a mistake that put that Q.B. in a hole on the scoreboard and he had to go to the air to get back in the game becuase of the clock.

    Unless of course....

    Oh screw it... I am going to bed and I am going to watch some football tomorrow and forget about how bad the year is and just enjoy the game, and the fact I may get up on Sunday, breathe in, breathe out, cook a great meal, turn on the T.V. go to bed again, wake up the next day, breathe in, breathe out, go to work, and look forward to next week.

    Unless of course....


    RP
     
  11. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Let's look at this for a moment...

    I watched that painfull debacle vs. Philadelphia, and afterwards there was only solution I could think of:

    Fire Mike Sherman.

    This game (much like the one I witnessed first hand vs, Minnesota) was winnnable. The Pack controlled the game for 3 quarters, and (once again) blew it in the fourth. I was more than willing to give Sherman the benefit of the doubt minus the GM role, but after watching yet another heartbreaker vs. a substandard team, it was the final straw. Green Bay desperately needs a changing of the guard, and Sherman is #1 on the chopping block.

    For all you Favre blamers:

    If you honestly expect Brett Favre to compensate for a substandard offence, coupled with substandard coaching, what the hell do you think we need a HC for anyways? Obviously you feel Brett should be able to accomplish it all, on his own, without any help from coaching staff whatsoever. Realistically, Brett is still ranked in the top 5 of QBs in the league, which is a helluva a lot more than I can say for Sherman's "coaching" at this point.

    For god's sake, someone please stop the bleeding,

    GO PACK!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  12. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Brett has alway thrown INT. The difference is when the Pack were winning, you didn't notice nor care. Now that the Pack are in their first losing season since 91, you see it as a big deal, and a reason to blame Favre.

    Don't blame Brett Favre, blame Mike Sherman. End of story.

    GO PACK!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  13. jdlax

    jdlax Cheesehead

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    Mike Sherman put Javon Walker in the hospital. He called the route that got eventually got him hurt. j/k :D
     
  14. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I'll add to this, now knowing what happened with the Bears game this last weekend.....

    FAVRE threw the game away - at least three times......

    BUT - JUST THE SAME - I HAVE AN ISSUE with the Wideouts....

    Why are our Wide Receivers always, and I mean 99% of the time... always letting the Defender (Corner back, or Safety) on the inside of the running route?

    C'mon, you experts... step up to the plate on this one.... Brett doesn't have the luxury of a video game controller... So, where does the responsibility lay?

    On one play - Brett should have certainly just thrown the ball out-of-bounds.... it ended up in the End Zone as an INT, but should have never found its way to that end of the field, anyway.....

    STILL - the WR's aren't running the right routes and Jay Glazer's comment was very telling as you watched this game... I know what I saw....
     
  15. rabidgopher04

    rabidgopher04 Cheesehead

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    Didn't you read what he said? He was trying to do that but was getting hit going down and couldn't put enough behind it.
     
  16. sixone220

    sixone220 Cheesehead

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    I don't see how my comment was blaming things on Brett. I was merely making the point that not every comment has to revert back to "Fire Sherman". If Brett throws a pick, it's on Brett. (maybe a wr not catching it or something too) But my point is, if Brett throws a pick, it's not Sherman's fault for calling a pass.

    I'm not blaming the season or Brett and I'm not blaming the season on Sherman. It's a bad team that is buried in injuries. Brett is a gunslinger. You take the missles that beat triple coverages for a TD and you take the bonehead shovel pass that the DE picks off.

    I'm not defending Sherman either but when GB wins the division, I heard very little coaching complaints. There were a few. But now, 2-10 has everyone looking for a scapegoat. Look at the silver lining here. At this rate, we got a shot at a certain guy from a certain team whose name is reserved for a special thread. :D
     
  17. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    Let me ask everyone - When.. was the last time anyone saw Favre throw it out of bounds "sideways".... That pass to the end zone --- supposedly, an out of bounds toss --- was extremely remniscient of the INT in the Eagles 2003 Playoff game -which Rossley took credit for...

    C'mon guys - "I luv Brett Favre" -- (A song comes to mind) -- but I still call him Favor, when he shows he could use one... Throwing the ball all the way down the field like that was judgement error - and if it wasn't Brett Favre and was Craig Nall(?), or even Aaron Rodgers..? They'd get the bench... right there and then. No matter what they pulled outta their hat as a reason. Look at it this way - Rashard Lee was just let go...

    Team releases running back Lee

    I revere the whole team when it comes right down to brass tacks.
    Like I said before - I am a "Packers" Acolyte - not just one man, but the WHOLE TEAM.

    Listening to Steve Czaban, this morning on First Team on FOx - which Milwaukee doesn't get, I finally found out while up nort' for the Steeler game.... Anyway... Czabe goes on a rant about BRETT FAVRE - and forces everyone to stay on topic. Here's the deal ------

    "Should Brett Favre sit down?"

    Reasoning: Pending Favre won't come out (NOW) and say he plans on returning for yet another year in the one passion he has (besides Deanna, that is) - OR - Will he retire on a bad note and just hang it up... ---

    Ya see, Brett won't comment...

    AND, based on that behavior - where do the Packers "owe" Brett Favre... ? If he won't speak up and say "YES" - I'm retiring at year's end! Wherein, the Packers would just finish out the Season and let Brett not only start, but play every game til his career is finally over, just after New Year's Day....

    OR, speak out and say NO - I'm not retiring - and force him to SIT..... "ending" his amazing longevity in game starts - by far the longest we'll most likely ever see in my lifetime, at least. THE PACKERS THEN... put Aaron Rodgers out there for a little (ahem) tag football and let him (Clinton here).. "feel the pain" of the NFL, for real, finally and that's how the rest of the Season goes.....

    MOST CERTAINLY - SHERMAN GO DOWN IN INFAMY - COUNT ON IT!
    (That is, if he sits Favre down - calls on Craig Nall, or Aaron Rodgers as the new Starting QB.)

    Personally, I don't see Favre having any intention on watching the INT issue and giving fundamentals a chance in any tinker's damn.... I think he just plays the rest of the season like he has so far - no sense in switching horses now... and he'll probably have the worst INT year of his whole career.

    JUST THE SAME - I htink he should come back next year as well.
    And, this Summer - spend a great deal of time re-training that eagle eye, which used to go "with" that rocket arm.... He'd have his trio of Wideouts back and possibly, we'd see a rejuvenated Ahman Green - fumble-itis all gone, etc. The thought does have possibilities.....

    He should have simply thrown that pass to the side, straight at the bench - NOT the end zone.... THIS TIME AROUND, IT WAS BRETT FAVRE WHO COST US THIS GAME -- It "certainly" wasn't the Bears actually beating us - Kyle Orton's performance.... well, - this thread is about Brett Favre.....

    Side Note - Jay Glazer was right - the Wideouts "do" have a tendency to "let" the CB's get on the inside, blocking out any chance of catching some truly great passes... it's the weak route running which ain't helpin' things... ya gotta admit that. Also the fumbles and dropped passes were ridiculous....
     
  18. Cheesehog

    Cheesehog Cheesehead

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    Just once, just once, I'd like to see the recievers get some seperation from their defenders. Why does everything have to be so tight and the ball forced(sqeezed) in there. When was was the last time you saw one of our recievers juke and break free wide open? I'm not expecting this often, but c'mon now. If you see highlights of other games, there are wide open recievers on big scoring plays. Granted we don't have the talent right now(Walker down), but these others are Profesionals(so-called) and should be expected to once in a while break free! It just gripes me the money they get paid and they come out so-so. Just get some seperation once in a while for Brett.(Remember Sharpe) Granted Driver gets double coverage, but the others have to step up.
     
  19. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    It is by design from what I can see, Cheesehog. Our receivers are on most occasions forced to beat their man and find a soft spot in the defense....to read and REACT to the defense.

    I see so many teams running routes (many of which border on picks, but are seemingly tolerated by this offense oriented league) that allow for very average receivers to gain seperation with regularity. Instead of REACTING to the defense, they are DICTATING how the defense has to respond....putting more pressure on the defense....and creating greater opportunity for the big play

    Both are good and have been successful for a long time. I just see this offense doing more REACTING than DICTATING. Passive vs. aggressive....it is essentially Sherman's hallmark as a HC.
     
  20. Cheesehog

    Cheesehog Cheesehead

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    Yep, defences no longer "fear" Favre as they once did, instead they force Brett into trying to win the game. Sherman brought in a more balanced offence by trying to run the ball more. If he chose more agressive pass plays for Favre, there would be less men stacking the line against the run. Of course there would be xtra defenders back there for the pass, but these recievers(and play calling by the coach) needs to get more agrressive in their
    route running. How often do we see new wrinkles of plays in the current offence? Not very. Edgar Bennet, Dorsey Levens, were not "Jim Browns" Hall of Famers, But they had great running games because then teams feared Farve and the Pass. Walker(deep threat) was the closest we got to someone like Sharpe who could seperate and get the big td pass. And he was the only good reciever Farve had early on. Don Bebbe speed would also stretch the feild later on. I just don't see that type of play calling and running as much anymore. I missed the days when Farve would come out Smoking, Just to let them know, back off! How about 3-4 recievers just tearing down the feild for a long haul in on the first play. I'd probably would choke on my beer if I saw that. But I predict they will run the ball or try a short swing pass.
     
  21. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I would offer that maybe more than just Rossley needs to go....
    Especially after the three of us gathering our thoughts as a group here...
    The Wideouts Coach has to be more forceful in his approach with things...
    Personally, I question just how much film any of these NFL-E calilber guys are watching..... I remember Favre stating outright that he hated watching film, would fall asleep doing it... Could be we have the same situaiton here - only there's no fire and brimstone HC standin' over 'em these days... Just the same - each Coaching position is responsible -- I go back to what we see in our Jobs at the Office... There's no such thing as bad employees, only bad Managers......

    So that would give us the three bears, as it were....


    • Tom Rossley
      Bonamego
      Wideouts Coach

    Who else would be held accountable - Larry Beightol is workin' his butt off - that much is plain - it's not his fault Clifton is falling off on protection, as is Tauscher.. Are they giving up?

    Also Chees - I disagree with the "not fearing Favre" comment - ALL TEAMS still fear this guy... it's the supporting cast that's not creating a sweat on the other sideline.....
     

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