Edge Rushers

[morango]

There are some rumors floating around that Gute might be looking at Edge in free agency, despite the premium prices often seen for that position. The names mentioned are second-tier guys like Preston Smith (Wash) and Zadarius Smith (Balt). They are both young (25 yrs and 26 yrs respectively I think), talented, high-effort guys who are unlikely to be franchised and will be in the packers' price range (ie they won't totally break the bank).

So... thoughts on these guys? And also thoughts on how it would affect the draft?

IMO, I am all in favor of signing one of them if they want to come to GB and play. It takes some of the pressure off signing a pass rusher at all costs with a first round pick, but still allowing that option if thats how the draft falls. Since both of these guys are bigger (265 lbs) they can function as the elephant LBer and make it easier for Gute to consider one of the speed guys in the draft such as Brian Burns and/or Polite. Would also allow packers to go for edge rusher later in the draft and focus on OL, TE, DL, WR etc, earlier.

 

[Snoops]

They need to draft Brian Burns...

 

[Pkrjones]

Gute needs to sign one FA edge rusher. Montez Sweat just overcame Polite as my favored #12 pick. Sweat is 6'-6", 260 lbs with 35-3/4" arms (wingspan of almost 7'2"!)... AND he runs 4.41 forty. This guy is a freak who also produces on the field.

Hope this combine didn't push him into a top-10 pick .

 

[morango]

Gute needs to sign one FA edge rusher. Montez Sweat just overcame Polite as my favored #12 pick. Sweat is 6'-6", 260 lbs with 35-3/4" arms (wingspan of almost 7'2"!)... AND he runs 4.41 forty. This guy is a freak who also produces on the field.

Hope this combine didn't push him into a top-10 pick .

How's the game tape on Sweat?

i.e. - what was the consensus among the "experts" pre-combine? Also a question for any of you posters who actually watch tape on players (unlike me) - Have you done a Sweat session yet???

 

[Dantés]

How's the game tape on Sweat?

i.e. - what was the consensus among the "experts" pre-combine? Also a question for any of you posters who actually watch tape on players (unlike me) - Have you done a Sweat session yet???

Mainstream types seem to rank him somewhere from 10th-25th overall in the class.

 

[Pkrjones]

How's the game tape on Sweat?

i.e. - what was the consensus among the "experts" pre-combine? Also a question for any of you posters who actually watch tape on players (unlike me) - Have you done a Sweat session yet???

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- A Little more analysis of '17 games.

 

[speakhands]

40 yard dash times are pretty meaningless for edge rushers imo since you hardly ever get the chance to stride out like that unless you're chasing a play from the back end (which is more of a Will LB trait).

I'd still take Polite over Sweat or Burns, personally.

 

[OldSchool101]

40 yard dash times are pretty meaningless for edge rushers imo since you hardly ever get the chance to stride out like that unless you're chasing a play from the back end. I'd still take Polite over Sweat or Burns, personally.

Sweat broke a 16 year old record today for the fastest DL since 2003 at 4.41 X 40 while weighing in at 260lbs. He was also the second fastest DL at the combine with a recorded 1.51 X 10 yard split. His short burst is off the charts for his size. Polite ran a 1.71 in comparison which ranks as extremely poor. His 40 time was a 4.84 and .01 slower than Quinnen Williams who weighs 306 lbs. !!

Now I can appreciate you having your favorite. But you’re going to pick on 2 guys who just blew up the combine?
Polite has such a poor showing that he announced a muscle pull yet he apparently forgot to fake it before his announcement! They’re being recorded when they take a poop here and he would’ve been better off saying he crapped his shorts than to claim he pulled his hamstring after seeing how horrifying his time was.
Then, to make a bad situation worse, out of frustration he goes on record saying the Packers bashed him in a post combine exit interview. The only great example he left at the combine was how not to perform at a combine. True story here.
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...achai-polite-disappoints-at-scouting-combine/

Unless this kid registers to becomes a Saint and then runs a sub 4.6 at his pro day he’s all but done in the day one arena. Hopefully his hamstring doesn’t affect his ability to show up.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There are some rumors floating around that Gute might be looking at Edge in free agency, despite the premium prices often seen for that position. The names mentioned are second-tier guys like Preston Smith (Wash) and Zadarius Smith (Balt). They are both young (25 yrs and 26 yrs respectively I think), talented, high-effort guys who are unlikely to be franchised and will be in the packers' price range (ie they won't totally break the bank).

So... thoughts on these guys?

It might be smart for the Packers to sign either one of them to a reasonable contract. Most likely they would still have to address the position early in the draft to adequately address it though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Brandon Graham's fresh 3 year / $40 mil deal in returning to the Eagles unfortunately sets a high bar.

 

[GleefulGary]

I don't know why anybody would except to be able to sign an Edge to a "reasonable" contract. It's a premier position.

Guys like Za'darius Smith, Preston Smith, they'll most likely be at a minimum of $10/year. We might get lucky and get Shaq Barrett below that, but I kinda doubt it.

Bargains at edge are incredibly hard to find in free agency.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't know why anybody would except to be able to sign an Edge to a "reasonable" contract. It's a premier position.

Guys like Za'darius Smith, Preston Smith, they'll most likely be at a minimum of $10/year. We might get lucky and get Shaq Barrett below that, but I kinda doubt it.

Bargains at edge are incredibly hard to find in free agency.

$13 mil per year for a 31 year old player with a reliably good, but not great, career while coming off an injury impaired season while putting his team over the cap: the bar is raised.

 

[GleefulGary]

$13 mil per year for a 31 year old player with a reliably good, but not great, career while coming off an injury impaired season while putting his team over the cap: the bar is raised.

We're saying the same thing.

Edge rushers are going to be expensive. They're a premier position. Finding a bargain in FA is going to be darn near impossible.

 

[speakhands]

Sweat broke a 16 year old record today for the fastest DL since 2003 at 4.41 X 40 while weighing in at 260lbs. He was also the second fastest DL at the combine with a recorded 1.51 X 10 yard split. His short burst is off the charts for his size. Polite ran a 1.71 in comparison which ranks as extremely poor. His 40 time was a 4.84 and .01 slower than Quinnen Williams who weighs 306 lbs. !!

Now I can appreciate you having your favorite. But you’re going to pick on 2 guys who just blew up the combine?
Polite has such a poor showing that he announced a muscle pull yet he apparently forgot to fake it before his announcement! They’re being recorded when they take a poop here and he would’ve been better off saying he crapped his shorts than to claim he pulled his hamstring after seeing how horrifying his time was.
Then, to make a bad situation worse, out of frustration he goes on record saying the Packers bashed him in a post combine exit interview. The only great example he left at the combine was how not to perform at a combine. True story here.
https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...achai-polite-disappoints-at-scouting-combine/

Unless this kid registers to becomes a Saint and then runs a sub 4.6 at his pro day he’s all but done in the day one arena. Hopefully his hamstring doesn’t affect his ability to show up.

I agree with you that Polite is likely out of the day one conversation if his interviews went as poorly as is being reported (his interviews about his interviews that you referenced are being hugely overstated if you watch the video: he clearly wasn't being negative...he was just nervous and inarticulate). However, that doesn't change my personal preference. I value game tape more than sprinting matches. Like I said, I don't think breaking a 40 record, no matter how singularly impressive, matters much. Polite's tape shows that he can bend around the edge and zip to the quarterback. Sweat's tape shows that he has no bend whatsoever and gets stuck on D-2 tackles unless he stunts inside.

I'd be happy to take Burns at 30 (I still don't think he's worth a pick at #12), and I thought his drill work was extremely impressive, but I am not interested in Sweat at all. I would rather we trade back than take him at #12 or even #30.

 

[HardRightEdge]

We're saying the same thing.

Edge rushers are going to be expensive. They're a premier position. Finding a bargain in FA is going to be darn near impossible.

We're not qute saying the same thing. Edge players were already expensive and getting more so. But this Graham deal pushes it futher than reasonable expectations.

We have Demovsky reporting that agents are saying Gutekunst is prioritizing edge rushers in free agency. Last season it was reportedly the Mack derby (though I doubt that got very far), a CB (Fuller) and WRs (Robinson, Watkins) and landed none of them, presumably on price, pivoting instead to Graham.

The way things are going, I don't think there's enough projection in second contract candidates to justify the kind of money they may command. Even if that report is true (which is dubious with those kinds of things), I'm not going to be shocked if Gutekunst pivots again to other needs, safety, Breeland, O-Line, D-Line and even a Matthews deal depending on price.

Upon further evaluation, Rashan Gary at #12 would be a plausible alternative if he lasts that long.

 

[Pkrjones]

We have Demovsky reporting that agents are saying Gutekunst is prioritizing edge rushers in free agency. Last season it was reportedly the Mack derby (though I doubt that got very far), a CB (Fuller) and WRs (Robinson, Watkins) and landed none of them, presumably on price, pivoting instead to Graham.

The way things are going, I don't think there's enough projection in second contract candidates to justify the kind of money they may command. Even if that report is true (which is dubious with those kinds of things), I'm not going to be shocked if Gutekunst pivots again to other needs, safety, Breeland, O-Line, D-Line and even a Matthews deal depending on price.
Upon further evaluation, Rashan Gary at #12 would be a plausible alternative if he lasts that long.

Gute signed Fuller to a 4yr/$56Mil offer sheet but Chicago matched it (almost immediately).

Reggie McKenzie has said GB was one of many trying to trade for Mack but even with 2 1st-rounders this year the Raiders (mistakenly) thought the Bears would be giving-up higher picks so they "won".

Gute has plenty of options so I believe he will sign some FA's, just won't grossly overpay. These expected high-priced FA's all have some risk but I expect Gute to spend smart-money to plug a couple of holes on the OL, DL & hopefully Breeland. I fear that Perry will be here as there's more return on him playing 8-12 games for $14Mil vs. GB absorbing $11Mil dead money to NOT play.

Don't want Rashan Gary, at all... IMHO he's a younger, healthier, less disciplined version of Perry with bull-rush as his main rush move.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree with you that Polite is likely out of the day one conversation if his interviews went as poorly as is being reported (his interviews about his interviews that you referenced are being hugely overstated if you watch the video: he clearly wasn't being negative...he was just nervous and inarticulate). However, that doesn't change my personal preference. I value game tape more than sprinting matches. Like I said, I don't think breaking a 40 record, no matter how singularly impressive, matters much. Polite's tape shows that he can bend around the edge and zip to the quarterback. Sweat's tape shows that he has no bend whatsoever and gets stuck on D-2 tackles unless he stunts inside.

I'd be happy to take Burns at 30 (I still don't think he's worth a pick at #12), and I thought his drill work was extremely impressive, but I am not interested in Sweat at all. I would rather we trade back than take him at #12 or even #30.

I'm not sure what's worse with Polite, being engulfed by good college OTs, a lousy Combine or his interpretation of "bashing" in interviews. He didn't see difficult questions coming? He was not aware of character and maturity issues surrounding him? He didn't get he was being tested? After the first encounter you'd figure he'd get hip to the program. Evidently the Rams played nice. Maybe he goes at #31.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gute signed Fuller to a 4yr/$56Mil offer sheet but Chicago matched it (almost immediately).

Reggie McKenzie has said GB was one of many trying to trade for Mack but even with 2 1st-rounders this year the Raiders (mistakenly) thought the Bears would be giving-up higher picks so they "won".

Gute has plenty of options so I believe he will sign some FA's, just won't grossly overpay. These expected high-priced FA's all have some risk but I expect Gute to spend smart-money to plug a couple of holes on the OL, DL & hopefully Breeland. I fear that Perry will be here as there's more return on him playing 8-12 games for $14Mil vs. GB absorbing $11Mil dead money to NOT play.

Don't want Rashan Gary, at all... IMHO he's a younger, healthier, less disciplined version of Perry with bull-rush as his main rush move.

I'm aware of the facts surrounding Gutekunst's reported attempts at 2018 free agent signings. At the end of the day, his price was not their price. Sammy Watkins? I imagine when his agent presented KC's 3 year / $48 mil offer to be met or topped, the reaction was somewhere between "no" and "hell no".

 

[Snoops]

40 yard dash times are pretty meaningless for edge rushers imo since you hardly ever get the chance to stride out like that unless you're chasing a play from the back end (which is more of a Will LB trait).

I'd still take Polite over Sweat or Burns, personally.

I hope ur kidding... burns is gonna be a beast!!!

 

[Snoops]

We should take sweat burns or white at 12 and move back up and take one or the other if we some how got 2 of the 3 we will be set

 

[GleefulGary]

Gute signed Fuller to a 4yr/$56Mil offer sheet but Chicago matched it (almost immediately).

Reggie McKenzie has said GB was one of many trying to trade for Mack but even with 2 1st-rounders this year the Raiders (mistakenly) thought the Bears would be giving-up higher picks so they "won".

Gute has plenty of options so I believe he will sign some FA's, just won't grossly overpay. These expected high-priced FA's all have some risk but I expect Gute to spend smart-money to plug a couple of holes on the OL, DL & hopefully Breeland. I fear that Perry will be here as there's more return on him playing 8-12 games for $14Mil vs. GB absorbing $11Mil dead money to NOT play.

Don't want Rashan Gary, at all... IMHO he's a younger, healthier, less disciplined version of Perry with bull-rush as his main rush move.

With all due respect, a healthy Nick Perry was a very good pass rusher. He just hasn't been able to stay healthy.

But I'd take a healthy Perry type player on my team any day.

 

[Dantés]

40 yard dash times are pretty meaningless for edge rushers imo since you hardly ever get the chance to stride out like that unless you're chasing a play from the back end (which is more of a Will LB trait).

I'd still take Polite over Sweat or Burns, personally.

First part of your post is exactly right. 10 yd split matters, 40 time does not. And even then, other drills are more important than the 10 yd.

However I wouldn't touch Polite. He didn't care enough to be in shape and prepared, then bombed his interviews, and made up an injury so he wouldn't have to embarrass himself any more. Most of the time great athletes fail in the league, it's because they are like Polite between the ears.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Don't want Rashan Gary, at all... IMHO he's a younger, healthier, less disciplined version of Perry with bull-rush as his main rush move.

All 7 of the mockers at nfl.com have bumped Gary to #7 or above. Zierlein has him at #2 over Josh Allen.

I don't think you'll have to worry about it.

If we must idly compare Gary to a Packer, the older Peppers in his time with the Packers is a better comparison than Perry in terms of size, length, versatility and bull rushing (which was about all Peppers did in his time in Green Bay). The thing he has, for all the lack of technique at this stage, is the ability to convert speed to power that the other usual suspects at #12 lack.

I'm back to my original assessment: the edge guys likely to be available at #12 are not worth that pick. FA will determine how priorities are shuffled.

 

[GleefulGary]

First part of your post is exactly right. 10 yd split matters, 40 time does not. And even then, other drills are more important than the 10 yd.

However I wouldn't touch Polite. He didn't care enough to be in shape and prepared, then bombed his interviews, and made up an injury so he wouldn't have to embarrass himself any more. Most of the time great athletes fail in the league, it's because they are like Polite between the ears.

It's frustrating because he has really good tape.

He's reminiscent of Tim Williams all over again.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The edge discussion has gone cold with the free agent acquisitions but I got to thinking about why the Packers would bring in Sweat for an interview.

It's possible they plan to use Z. Smith at 3-tech in nickel and dime more that I would have anticipated. What if he takes half his snaps there? That knocks moves DL who can bring pressure down the draft needs list. At the same time a guy like Sweat adds a speed rushing component to complement power players in the Smiths.

As for the tape, he's got some countermoves to go with edge burst and his hand work is decent but more oftent swiping away the tackle's punch; he could use those long arms more affectively more often.

I see him as bit of a reach at #12 since he does not immediatley project as a 3-down player, more a rotational pass rush specialist where the change of pace could be useful, maybe a 40 - 50% snap guy intially.

I wouldn't take him off the list at #12 but that depends on how you want to view Z. Smith's role.