1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Dee Ford and Nick Perry

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    594
    Ratings:
    +499
    Through two seasons, Nick Perry has not developed into the OLB we had hoped. Injuries have been the constant. But so too has his play been against the run; he's been stout and a tough move for linemen. I'm curious as to what you think about this strategy:

    Draft Dee Ford and move Perry to DE. Ford has prototypical 3-4 OLB size at 6'2" and 230-240 lbs. He's expected to run a 4.4. And he gets after QB's, producing 10.5 sacks, 14.5 TFL last year with a bum knee. His athleticism will be an upgrade over Perry.

    Then, we'd move Perry to DE where he can play with his hand in the dirt, which he prefers, and won't be exposed in space. The downside is his size at 6'3" and 265 lbs. But, he looks a lot bigger on the field and could probably add the necessary bulk.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Messages:
    454
    Ratings:
    +70
    Mike Daniels has that spot locked. I guess perry could fill in for Daniels but I guarantee you a player of Perry's size isn't playing 3-4 end on any running downs and Daniels is very effective in the role on passing downs. In other words, we lose Perry's run stuffing ability by moving him inside and just have to hope it lets him regain the pass rush ability he had in college. Too much blind hope. Perry either takes a huge step and makes it as a credible, starting OLB next year or ends up being a solid back up until his rookie contract ends. I don't know enough about Dee Ford to agree or disagree but one thing I agree with is drafting a 3-4 OLB and NOT another undersized 4-3 end.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Messages:
    454
    Ratings:
    +70
    Oh and your point proves even further that Nick Perry is a a scheme player. His game is built for the 4-3. He's great at stuffing the run, but needs his hand in the ground to rush the passer. So move him inside to stuff the run? Can't, undersized. His abilities match perfectly with a 4-3 and I can see him as a starting 4-3 end by the end of his career. But likely not with Green Bay.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. net

    net Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    946
    Ratings:
    +62
    Here's a shocking concept: draft a linebacker....to play linebacker. The Packers are becoming very good at drafting effective defensive ends in college and who fail miserably as linebackers in the pros. Matthews played standup end, but was fully involved in the coverage schemes at USC. The entire defense sickens me. It's like having a Yugo and trying to make it into a Ferrari.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Ratings:
    +838
    The Packers and Bears would be better off with each others first round picks. Shea for Perry.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Messages:
    454
    Ratings:
    +70

    The only way that would ever happen is through free agency after their rookie contracts are up. The sad part; now that you've said that, I can see Perry as a bear almost more than in green and gold and I've never even seen him in a bears uniform.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. Just|Me

    Just|Me Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +5
    both picks never made sense. even if the Bears picked Shea just to prevent he'll get drafted by the Packers (which would be farfetched because of the 9 spots difference), the Perry pick still makes no sense. the bad thing: just because some GM messed it up, both players will never have a chance to live up to their true pontential during their rookie contracts.
     
  8. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Ratings:
    +375
    20 college FBS teams run a 3-4. Converting defensive ends to linebackers is often your best shot. Mike Neal figured it out. Perry it seems hasn't quite.

    Another inserting note. Ford has said he'd love to play as a 3-4 outside backer. Perry wanted nothing to do with it.

    Perry still has time to figure it out. He's shown potential (sack, fumble) but if it doesn't work out its totally fair to criticize Thompson. The guy didn't necessarily grade out to be a 3-4 linebacker, or give any inkling he wanted to be one, yet Thompson still drafted him to be one.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2,217
    Ratings:
    +626
    :roflmao:
     
  10. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,244
    Ratings:
    +457
    Man, people give up on draft picks WAAAYYYY to fast. Perry has played two years. When he's been healthy (that's been his biggest issue) he's actually looked like a pretty good rusher. Now, he has made some really stupid plays (two come to mind last season) but he's still young and learning. Keep in mind that LeBeau and Capers have both said that they don't like to play young players for the very reason that Perry illustrates, it takes time to get the defense down. Give Perry another year to put in an entire year of work and, hopefully, stay healthy.

    I've actually mentioned before the idea of drafting Ford but not because I think Perry can't be a good OLB but mainly because we have two OLBs on the roster that can't play an entire season. OLB is the most important position in the 3-4 so having an extra guy in there wouldn't be a negative. You could still play all three in base downs (Perry might actually make a pretty decent ILB) and then on passing downs you could shift Perry to dline and have a pass rushing unit featuring Jones, Perry, Ford, CM3 and maybe Worthy if he improves. That would be a fairly punishing defensive unit.
     
  11. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,991
    Ratings:
    +1,013
    Thank you! been saying this for a few years now. Maybe if TT actually drafted a LB to play OLB this 3-4 scheme would actually work.
     
  12. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,991
    Ratings:
    +1,013

    Are we talking about the same mike Neal who can't cover in space? i agree with Perry tho, i think TT saw his athletic ability and thought it would work. Wrong
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Ford is a sorrily weak wash in the run, and Perry maxes out his frame at 280. This is a terrible idea. I understand where you're coming from though. I've said before that if Perry could play DE and Datone could play OLB we'd have a monstrous D. Never gonna happen though. Perry has a nice move combo right now, but the QB always sees him, and he winds up a step behind the throw. It's why he was better on the ROLB.

    Also, I'd call 230-240 undersized for OLB's (ILB maybe 230-250). Try 240-260, and generally I like my LOLB's 250-270.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2014
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,632
    Ratings:
    +2,557
    Anybody else think Dee Ford was offsides on those sacks in the Senior Bowl?
     
  15. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,038
    Ratings:
    +375
    47 tackles, team-high 46 pressures, 5 sacks and 1 int (more than all safeties combined) in his first year at the position. Played in all 16 regular season games.

    You must have gotten him confused with those two players behind him on the field?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  16. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    Messages:
    454
    Ratings:
    +70
    I agree with Shawnsta3. Mike Neal seems to have great potential at the position. The only not so great thing about what he did last year was that he proved to the entire league he is a physical specimen. He could play any position on the line in a 4-3 with an offseason to train for it. So by proving he's worth another contract at OLB, he also proved his worth to everyone else. I hope he's back, but I have a feeling someone might pay him.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,799
    Ratings:
    +1,045
    As Shansta pointed out, Neal had a nice season.

    Other former defensive ends to be good at 3-4 OLB:
    Robert Mathis, Demarcus Ware, Tamba Hali, Aldon Smith, Terrell Suggs, Anthony Spencer

    (Yes, I know the Cowboys don't run a 3-4 anymore, but Ware and Spencer were good at OLB when they did.)

    That's a very solid group right there. Should we have passed on drafting one of those guys given the chance?

    There is no rule saying a good OLB can't come from a former defensive end.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  18. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,991
    Ratings:
    +1,013

    You do know that those guy's are all pro type or have been all pro caliber type players right? Neal is not...they were former DE at one point yes but that's where the comparisons end as far as productivity. Neal is not on the same level...not even close. Even Spencer imo is a better player at this stage. I just don't think Neal is an olb i'm sorry.
     
  19. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Neal is a former DT.
     
  20. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,799
    Ratings:
    +1,045
    I wasn't comparing those players to each other. My point was players who were a DE can become a successful OLB and some of the best ones were a DE. There's no reason to avoid drafting a DE to play OLB if the GM thinks he can make the transition.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  21. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,799
    Ratings:
    +1,045
    You're right. I was just looking at his first years in Green Bay as a DE.
     
  22. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    It's difficult to relate 34 DE to 43 DE purely based on the nature of the system. The DE you were talking about were 43 DE turning to 34 OLB, which can be done. 43 DT to 34 OLB however is kind of uncharted waters. Besides, Neal was always a nickel DT in our system, he almost never saw time in base.
     
  23. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,799
    Ratings:
    +1,045
    Alright. Good points. So Neal doesn't apply to the point I was making, but the rest do.
     
  24. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +337
    He's been effective rushing the passer while standing up from the right side.
     
  25. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +337
    I think Dee Ford would be a washout in our scheme. He's too small to be a 34 OLB, he's probably a 43 SAM backer. If a player doesnt project to play at 255 pounds or above forget about him.
     

Share This Page