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Chris Havel column: There's no defense for this performance

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by IronMan, Dec 4, 2006.

  1. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061204/PKR07/612040504/1959


    Chris Havel column: There's no defense for this performance

    By Chris Havel

    Ten minutes into Sunday's onslaught, I had a feeling Jets-Packers might be the New England disaster all over again.

    I was wrong. It was worse.

    Thoroughly beaten and demoralized by halftime, the Green Bay Packers trotted off Lambeau Field trailing 31-0 with no solutions in sight. In a mostly regrettable and entirely forgettable game, that surreal scene endures as the season's defining moment.

    It was humiliation on parade.

    In the first half, the Jets scored on every possession, racked up 22 first downs, threw for 241 yards and rushed for another 99. They ran 47 plays. They gained 340 yards.

    They did what they wanted, when they wanted.

    No halftime adjustment exists for what ailed the Packers, and there isn't any way to sugarcoat it. The Packers' 38-10 loss is unacceptable. Changes need to be made in the defense's starting lineup and on the defensive coaching staff.

    If Bob Sanders were a player, rather than the defensive coordinator, a performance this substandard would get him released. To say the Packers have had four defensive coordinators in four years is incorrect. They have had only one: Jim Bates. The only way to ensure defensive continuity from last year to this year was to retain Bates.

    Sanders' promotion from lieutenant to general doesn't make it so, and Packers coach Mike McCarthy may have no choice but to find another defensive coordinator.

    I don't know if Sanders can cut it. I do know he isn't cutting it. The Packers' defense gave up 100 points in 10 quarters, beginning with New England (35-0), including Seattle (34-24) and through halftime against the Jets (31-0).

    The run defense has been bad, and the pass defense has been worse. It is time to fire secondary coach Kurt Schottenheimer, and name Lionel Washington to replace him. That gives Washington four games to prove himself.

    Likewise, Sanders has four games to prove himself, but I can't envision a rally that could save his job. This isn't about one bad half of football. This is about a pattern of giving up big plays mushrooming into a full-blown trend.

    It also is about players cheating their fans, teammates, coaches and themselves by failing to perform. If Sunday's game were a rock concert, the promoter would have been forced to cancel the show and offer a refund.

    Brett Favre advised players to look in the mirror. He said they shouldn't place blame or point fingers, and he is right. That's what the fans and media are for.

    The Packers made Jets quarterback Chad Pennington look like Joe Willie Namath. They made Cedric Houston look like Curtis Martin. They made Jerricho Cotchery look like Don Maynard. They made the 7-5 Jets look like Super Bowl contenders.

    Mostly, they made the 70,527 fans ill, and this may not help: Afterward, a subdued and deflated Favre didn't sound like he has a 17th season in him. Favre may want to come back, but there has to be something worth coming back to.

    As it stands, this isn't it.

    Chris Havel can be reached by voice mail at (920) 431-8586 or by e-mail at chavel@greenbay.gannett.com
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    VERY nice article.

    IMO, Schott is gone in the offseason. McCarthy has 2 more years to prove himself, or he will be gone too and thus he HAS to do all he can to set himself up for a great run in his final year.

    Unfortunately, I'd say I wouldn't be shocked at a replacement from within the coaching staff for Sanders (he will get the blame for this terrible season, he does deserve his share). Winston Moss has my early vote for becoming the new DC, and I base this on NO EVIDENCE, just what I feel.
     
  3. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I couldn't understand how a coach that pretty much got ran out of town a few years ago would get hired again. As for Sanders, simply put, he's in over his head. He has a few good players. But the bottom line is that you can't blame the coaches for not having good players. You can blame the coaches if their player don't improve and get better. Manual and Collins are what they are. They're not very good safeties. Their are too many kids in that backfield who supposedly have talent, but still aren't making plays. I tend to look at the guys who are bringing in the talent before I look at the guys coaching the talent. Mike Sherman as an example didn't bring in much talent and that cost him his job. I don't believe you can coach bad talent to be great players. We, unfortunately, are a team without much talent, and the talent has been coached better on defense.
     
  4. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I still say Collins is a great player if you use him within his abilities.

    Basically teach Collins to play by reacting: If (A) happens, do this. If (B) happens, do that. Perhaps you can add a "If (C) happens, then do this", but you NEED to keep it simple for his limited mental ability.

    Bates did that, and part of it was because he was a rookie and part of it has to be because he realized too much would overwhelm the guy. Sanders has installed a system where Collins is asked to react in a variety of ways to different systems, and Manuel has done nothing to help him understand what to do.

    Schott also hasn't done anything. He needs to keep things simple, even if it is as simple as "Man run, you follow". He seems to try and get Collins to understand the little switches, and stuff that he has to do, but that is where the mistake is being made.

    I gotta think Lionel Washington would be a great DB coach. He realized Carroll's limits, and made him practice in ways which were creative and designed to target those weaknesses (boxing gloves, taking up boxing, etc.) I also maintain that Washington doesn't get enough credit for how good Harris has become. Let's not kid ourselves, if he was anywhere near the level he is now at Philly, or even showed flashes of getting to that level, they would have kept him. Credit Washington (to a certain degree of course) for working with Al to develop him.
     
  5. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    The problem with Collins is that he can't cover anyone. When you need to him to help out he seemingly is never where he is supposed to be. They don't use him up on the line for blitzing as we used to do with LeRoy. I just don't think he's a very good player. Manual isn't the guy either. What do you have left, Dendy and a bunch of guys you picked up from other teams who weren't good enough to play for those teams.
     
  6. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Actually house01, I believe in his rookie season Collins played CB a bit, and was most impressive. He showed ability to stick with his man, and be a ball hawk.

    I just think that asking him to do too much is getting him too confused. He needs to trust his instincts more than trying to play a chess match against the OC.
     
  7. abztractmynd

    abztractmynd Cheesehead

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    coaching changes need to be made in the off season. thats a FACT.
     
  8. Yared-Yam

    Yared-Yam Cheesehead

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    Re: Chris Havel column: There's no defense for this performa

    I still think Collins will be a stud, but he's gotten worse under Sanders.

    We all want Bates back, but that's just not gonna happen. I nominate myself.
     
  9. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Re: Chris Havel column: There's no defense for this performa

    Heck I'll second that nomination just to see how you respond to critics when your defence schemes fail...

    Reporter: Why do you suck?
    Yared-Yam: I don't suck, your momma sucks!

    Reporter 2: Was that called for?
    Yared-Yam: So now your limiting my free speech? COMMUNIST!!!! (Points finger like the monkey from family guy)

    Reporter 3: Are you..... are you retarded?
    Yared-Yam: NO! 2+2 = 5, there I proved I'm not!

    Reporter 4: Why did Mike McCarthy hire you?
    Yared-Yam: Do you have a younger brother/sister?
    Reporter 4: Yes...
    Yared-Yam: Well obviously your parents kept trying for more babies after you, BECAUSE YOU WERE A FAILURE! That's why I got hired, other DCs WERE FAILURES!

    Reporter 5: What are your thoughts on the S play?
    Yared-Yam: Why can't you people EVER talk about Gregg Jennings, huh? Must you always make things about you, me, he, she, it, or whatever; LET'S TALK ABOUT THE PLAYERS WHO NEED TO BE TALKED ABOUT, GREGG JENNINGS!

    Reporter 6: Ok so what is your opinion on Greg Jennings?
    Yared-Yam: *gets erection*
     
  10. Yared-Yam

    Yared-Yam Cheesehead

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    Re: Chris Havel column: There's no defense for this performa

    I do like Greg Jennings a lot...

    I would have Jim Mora Sr.-esque press conferences. Even if we won I would go into a rage-induced rant about how much we suck.
     
  11. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Imagine if you win the Superbowl:

    YY: It's pathetic, we played like a bunch of dolls out there. No passion, lust, or energy...
    Reporter: You guys won 45-0....
    YY: Are you implying something?
     
  12. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: Chris Havel column: There's no defense for this performa

    Keep in mind that Collins is trying to defend the deep pass all by himself. Manuel certainly isn't around and doens't know what he's doing. I think Collins has had an off year but based on his season 1 performance we know he can get it done. So let's not bail on him yet. Heck we gave Carroll 3 camps and he was far worse than Collins in my opinion.
     
  13. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Great point porky, Carroll got a heck of a lot more chances.

    I'd be interested in knowing your opinion on who should be the next DB coach though...
     
  14. dxbfan

    dxbfan Cheesehead

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    There's great evidence through Sherman's trial and error body of work with DC's to suggest that there is no substitute for a seasoned, experienced coach to run the defense. Bates being the case in point.

    I do however like you think that they'll probably take the easy way out, make Sanders the scapegoat and promote from within.
     
  15. ChrisC

    ChrisC Cheesehead

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    :rotflmao: aadp & yy!

    I'm guessing YY would find a role for Ingle in his defense!

    Every year we seem to have a scapegoat at DC. The way things are going, there are plenty of candidates for this year. :wall:

    Chris
     

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