Carroll-Sander stories from Press-Gazette

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Early going...the Press Gazette has been supplying much better info than the Journal-Sentinel. So much of the J-S stuff is "insider"(for pay) that quite frankly, they can...well...find a place to flush it.
Here's a little tip on the 'insider' stuff...most of the time it's stuff you can read in the regular newspaper. We have a subscription at work, so why pay twice?

Carroll story...

http://www.packersnews.com/archives/new ... 5583.shtml

Sander story....

http://www.packersnews.com/archives/new ... 7200.shtml
 

arrowgargantuan

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thanks net...

Ex-hot shot Carroll changes tune

By Rob Demovsky
PackersNews.com


A year ago, Ahmad Carroll strutted into Green Bay Packers training camp certain he was destined to be the next star NFL cornerback.

Somewhere on the way to greatness, the team
 

ArizonaPackerFan

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It's good to hear that Carroll is more humble and less cocky, but I hope more humble doesn't turn into loss of confidence.

I hope Carroll and Thomas can both be effective as starting corners someday, because we could need both of them in a couple of years if Harris starts to slow down. Harris is at an age for a corner where it's hard to say how many more effective years he'll have left, so it would be nice if both Carroll and Thomas developed. For this year I'll be happy though if at least one of them can become a legit starter as long as we still have Harris on the other side.
 

Steel Wheels

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ArizonaPackerFan said:
It's good to hear that Carroll is more humble and less cocky, but I hope more humble doesn't turn into loss of confidence.

I hope Carroll and Thomas can both be effective as starting corners someday, because we could need both of them in a couple of years if Harris starts to slow down. Harris is at an age for a corner where it's hard to say how many more effective years he'll have left, so it would be nice if both Carroll and Thomas developed. For this year I'll be happy though if at least one of them can become a legit starter as long as we still have Harris on the other side.

Look at the D though...

KGB middle of the road...same as Barnett. No CB's or Safeties even in the top 25.
Did someone forget that you need to be very good, on both sides of the ball, to win a Super Bowl??

Bates better be capable of making Filet Mignon out of cube steak for this defense to do anything.
 

NDPackerFan

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No way is Barnett a "middle of the road" LB. This will be the year that he comes into his own. I see him being a pro bowler in the very near future because he has all the tools to succeed in the NFL. The critics will always go after his size saying he can't get off of blocks, but if anyone has paid attention to his play, it has very little to do with it. Barnett will learn not to overpursue plays with experience and he will consistently make 150 tackles a season IMO.

I think Barnett is a flat out stud in the works and we'll probably see it this year with Bates more simplified defensive scheme.
 

ORRELSE

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NDPackerFan said:
No way is Barnett a "middle of the road" LB. This will be the year that he comes into his own. I see him being a pro bowler in the very near future because he has all the tools to succeed in the NFL. The critics will always go after his size saying he can't get off of blocks, but if anyone has paid attention to his play, it has very little to do with it. Barnett will learn not to overpursue plays with experience and he will consistently make 150 tackles a season IMO.

I think Barnett is a flat out stud in the works and we'll probably see it this year with Bates more simplified defensive scheme.

I can totally go with that too. In his first year Barnett stepped in as a rook and played awesome. He got jobbed out of rookie of the year, too. He only had a down year last year because our defense stunk as a whole. Same with KGB. No way is he "middle of the road". That guy is a flat out stud. If he had any help whatsoever from the rest of the stiffs on the D-line he wouldn't have to play every snap and he'd be a legit 15-20 sack guy.
 

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I also do not agree that Barnett or KGB are middle of the road. Barnett had a rough second year at times but he did have a fine rookie year. Bates saw enough of to keep him at MLB and KGB has been collecting sacks in double digits especally with the lousy defence last year.

I would expect further improvements from both in Bates system.
 

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I'm excited to have Bates. Great coaches make poor player into decent players, decent players into good players, good players into outstanding players, and outstanding players into great players.

I'm hoping Bates is a great coach. Certainly he should be better than we had.
 

Greg C.

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Kind of awkward to address two different subjects in one post, but here goes:

I wasn't at all impressed by anything in the Carroll article. They said that he's "been humbled," but there was no indication that he's actually any more humble than he was last year. He is talking less in practice, but maybe that's just because he would be laughed off the field by his teammates if he was running his mouth too much. He's lost what little crediblility he may have had to start out with.

Sander should be okay. He was dealt a bad hand in last year's training camp, having his first three appearances in game situations in a packed Lambeau Field (the scrimmage and the first two preseason games). That was incredible pressure for a punter drafted in the third round, especially considering that the guy who drafted him also happened to be his coach, and a lot of fans were highly skeptical of the pick. So I was not surprised when Sander crashed and burned. It really sounds like he has his confidence back and has also been working on his technique. He has potential to be a good punter for many years for the Packers.
 

musccy

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ArizonaPackerFan said:
I hope Carroll and Thomas can both be effective as starting corners someday, because we could need both of them in a couple of years if Harris starts to slow down. Harris is at an age for a corner where it's hard to say how many more effective years he'll have left
Agreed...we need them both, and for the reason you just stated, which is why I question why MS gave AH such a lengthy contract, but who knows, from what I've read, he's a heck of a worker, and keeps himself in good shape in the offseaon, which can help w/ your longevity (see Jerry Rice).

As for KGB being a "stud?" IMOHO, so far he's shown that he's a bit of a one trick pony. He'll accmulate a few sacks in one game, then won't even touch the qb for 3 weeks, plus it's fairly well known that he's weak against the run. Of course I'd rather have him than not, I'm just debating whether or not he's a "stud."
 

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Here's another Article from JSonline... for Carroll....

Carroll fighting for a job

Good article - he is more humble and more aware - He states his ability to keep his "focus" on the field at the same speed in which the plays unfold is much better - plus he's taken some boxing lessons. That should help his hand-eye coordination... and with Bates implementing a completely different D-style.. it should be easier to bump & run...

If it was me (?) - I'd keep both of those guys "in-tandem" out at that position and go find someone else to spell Harris once in-awhile... Teams will have a real hard time figuring out which Player should be on the field to pair up against whom...

Think of it like the NBA - they always switch players depending on who has to sit down, right? (whatever, the reason - you see where this is going)... Well, if "so & so" sits down because Reggie Miller's takin' a breather... then someone else is put out ther eto cover for whomever takes Reggie's place, right(?)

Well, l say let's give Bates that extra option - to be able to spell a Cornerback depending on the situation.. on both sides of the field. It could change the way that NFL Teams think of the position and the Thomas / Carroll Tag Team would be great doing exactly that.
 

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Hopefully we will have a good CB corps this year better than last one and IMHO we will have a much better one by next year, I like the new guy Hawkins he can be a starter for us he has the guts and felling not only the athletic capabilities, they should learn a lot from coach Bates.

Also I think Barnet can be a Pro Bowler, and last year was bad mostly because of slowicks stupid system and porr coaching abilities..
 

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Greg C. said:
Sander should be okay. He was dealt a bad hand in last year's training camp, having his first three appearances in game situations in a packed Lambeau Field (the scrimmage and the first two preseason games). That was incredible pressure for a punter drafted in the third round, especially considering that the guy who drafted him also happened to be his coach, and a lot of fans were highly skeptical of the pick. So I was not surprised when Sander crashed and burned. It really sounds like he has his confidence back and has also been working on his technique. He has potential to be a good punter for many years for the Packers.

If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's what I say. He was drafted to be a punter in the NFL. If he can't handle, it he needs to go out and get his job in criminal justice or whatever his degree was in.

What concerns me is the recent quote I read from I think Ted Thompson that said he doesn't have a "3rd round leg". I believe that was the last straw for Sherman as GM when he drafted this kid. Its like a cardinal rule of the draft. A punter in the 3rd round. Give me a break.
I read a blurb from an SI article yesterday about a punter in the Denver camp who had a 47.8 average and is booming kicks in camp, while our lame duck 3rd round choice can't average 37. We need to pick up Denver's garbage when this kid gets cut. He won't beat out Sauerbrun so we need to comb the waiver wire for this boomer, IMHO.
Sander is a joke.
 

Bobby Roberts

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ORRELSE said:
Greg C. said:
Sander should be okay. He was dealt a bad hand in last year's training camp, having his first three appearances in game situations in a packed Lambeau Field (the scrimmage and the first two preseason games). That was incredible pressure for a punter drafted in the third round, especially considering that the guy who drafted him also happened to be his coach, and a lot of fans were highly skeptical of the pick. So I was not surprised when Sander crashed and burned. It really sounds like he has his confidence back and has also been working on his technique. He has potential to be a good punter for many years for the Packers.

If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. That's what I say. He was drafted to be a punter in the NFL. If he can't handle, it he needs to go out and get his job in criminal justice or whatever his degree was in.

What concerns me is the recent quote I read from I think Ted Thompson that said he doesn't have a "3rd round leg". I believe that was the last straw for Sherman as GM when he drafted this kid. Its like a cardinal rule of the draft. A punter in the 3rd round. Give me a break.
I read a blurb from an SI article yesterday about a punter in the Denver camp who had a 47.8 average and is booming kicks in camp, while our lame duck 3rd round choice can't average 37. We need to pick up Denver's garbage when this kid gets cut. He won't beat out Sauerbrun so we need to comb the waiver wire for this boomer, IMHO.
Sander is a joke.

So what's your opinion of Wolf as a GM??

In 1997 Wolf drafted Brent Conway in the 3rd round to be our new kicker. He ended up being beaten out by a street FA rookie by the name of Ryan Longwell. Wolf followed up that lesson in 1999 by drafting Josh Bidwell in the 4th round, an average punter who had to overcome cancer to get to the point of being an average punter.

Basically we need to sit back and let this play out. In NFLE, Sander had a good gross average with the best net average of in the league. There are a ton of strong legged punters out there who can hit it 48 yards, but can they do it with direction, consistency, fewer steps and still pouch it inside the 20?

I'm not a Sander fan by any means. I was one of the many fans yelling at the TV when he was picked. But right now we need to sit back and let this thing play out. He could turn out to be a solid holder and good punter for many years to come.
 

Greg C.

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ORRELSE: It's very easy to say "If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen," but these guys aren't robots. I didn't like the Sander pick either, partly because I remembered how the Brett Conway pick backfired, and how all the pressure of being drafted high contributed to Conway's downfall.

But there are plenty of players on NFL rosters who choked as rookies and then settled down and became good players. The three biggest stars on our team--Brett Favre, Ahman Green, and Javon Walker--did not exactly sparkle in their rookie seasons. So let's see what Sander can do now that he has a little experience under his belt.
 

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CalifPacker said:
I also do not agree that Barnett or KGB are middle of the road. Barnett had a rough second year at times but he did have a fine rookie year. Bates saw enough of to keep him at MLB and KGB has been collecting sacks in double digits especally with the lousy defence last year.

I would expect further improvements from both in Bates system.



The third year is the year that most players come into their own. The first year is played just on their ability alone while learning the system. Many players take a step backward their second year while trying to play within the system. Then the third year on it comes together and clicks for them.

This theory leaves good news for Barnett, but doesn't say much for Carroll. I think Carroll will be okay in time. Barnett is going to be just fine.
 

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Sander punted at THE Ohio State University so he should have seen a few big stages in his college career to prepare him for the big show. He performed horribly and needs to pick up his game or he will be considered one of the bigger busts in recent Packer draft history. I hope he has a breakout year.
 

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ArizonaPackerFan said:
It's good to hear that Carroll is more humble and less cocky.
quote]

Not that hard to do when the defensive unit gets burned on a regular basis. :noflame:
 

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