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A peek ahead to 2013

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by 12theTruth, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. 12theTruth

    12theTruth Guest

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    Exactly half of the season has now passed and a good feel can now be established regarding current and future needs.

    From what I've seen here's how I feel the Pack's 4 biggest needs are

    1. Defensive Tackle-- After the offensive line, the D-line is weakest position group on the team. BJ Raji has potential but seems to get knicked more easily and is on a snap count. Pickett is in his mid thirties and we desperately need a beefy successor. The other internal candidates on the roster are undersized to play a NT role. I think Thompson should take a DT high because the likelihood of finding a stud 4 round and below is very unlikely.

    2. Center -- The drop off has been sizable this year from Wells to Saturday. Saturday is a slightly above average pass blocker and a markedly below average run blocker. Protecting our franchise should be paramount and beefing up this position would best enhance Rodgers overall performance moving forward.

    3. Running Back -- Alex Green tripping over O- lineman's feet and falling backwards when hit by defender on a run to the outside is getting pretty commonplace these days. He is a horrible 2nd pick by Ted Thompson and we need to move on from that gaffe. Drafting a stud RB in the 1st round or 2nd would dramatically increase the Packers offensive success. This idea that we don't need a running game with Aaron Rodgers is ludricrous. Adding an Ahman Green type to Aaron Rodgers would send waves of fear into defensive coordinators throughout the league.

    4. Backup QB -- Graham Harrell has for the most part stunk it up in exhibition performances. He also didn't look good at all when having to sub at the rare occasion he's been in there for A-rod for a play or two. The Packers should spend a top 4 pick on getting a talent upgrade at this position. And yes I know Brian Brohm was a 2nd rounder. Ugggghhh!

    My thought is that these positions should be addressed in the first 4 picks or in free agency.
     
  2. UpDownEndAround

    UpDownEndAround Cheesehead

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    I think since it's a lock that Raji gets an extension, you'd have to put DT after C and RB at the very least.
     
  3. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    Good thing Capers future is not decided by the fans...
     
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  4. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    The Packers have invested a lot of draft picks at the defensive line position: Jerel Worthy (2nd round; 2012), Mike Daniels (4th round; 2012) and Mike Neal (2nd round; 2010). It is time to address running back and offensive line. The defensive line is young enough with Worthy, Daniels, Neal, Raji and Wilson.
     
  5. Jordyruns

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

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    WR needs to be up there as well. Jennings will be gone and Jones only has one year left draft a 2nd or 3rd round receiver, develop them for a year and that way in 2 years we keep a solid top 3 receivers with Nelson, Cobb, the draft choice and Boykin for our 4th. I also wouldn't mind a big hybrid TE if we took one early, Finley will be gone soon enough and it would be nice to have a big athletic target at TE still.

    Our passing game has been our strength and we should keep it that way as long as we have Rodgers. Dont let the WR and TE depth and talent dwindle.
     
  6. melvin dangerr

    melvin dangerr Cheesehead

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    Is Hawk the D-Captain? should be Clay...
     
  7. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    It was Bishop, but I believe Hawk has the honor now.
     
  8. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    Wow..

    First of all, Alex Green is coming off a bad acl/mcl injury. As easy as Adrian Peterson made it look, it's not. Especially because Green had a much worse injury. I'm not sure he's fully 100% healed yet. So this is basically his rookie season.

    Move on from that gaffe? LOL

    Drafting a stud RB in the first or second would dramitically increase success? Why don't you ask the Raiders with DMC how he has "increased their success" to a combined 26-38 record since drafting him?

    Saints with Ingram.

    Ronnie Brown.

    Reggie Bush.

    Cedric Benson.

    Cadillac Williams.

    Combined Championships won from the above guys, most of them top 5 picks? 1. Reggie Bush. On a team where he was not a main contributor other than Special Teams.

    Ok. So maybe some of these guys were busts. Let's say Thompson hits the lottery and gets a Stud.

    Chris Johnson.

    Jamaal Charles.

    Matt Forte.

    MJD.

    Steven Jackson.

    Lesean McCoy.

    DeAngelo Williams.

    Adrian Peterson.

    Marshawn Lynch.

    Ray Rice.

    0 Championships.

    The fact is getting a stud running back does not equate to Super Bowls. And I think you would agree with me winning the Super Bowl = Success?

    I am the biggest Ahman Green fan in the world. I'm sure a guy like him would help us out a lot. He was drafted in the 3rd round. You draft running backs later, heck I even thought taking A. Green in the 3rd was a little early. And any guy we do get, would have to be just as adept at pass blocking and catching the ball (screen passes) as he would running. Someone like Ray Rice (who still hasn't won a ring)

    So in conclusion, I fully disagree with you that we have to take a Running back in the first 2 rounds next year. We won one with Starks in 2010, I don't see why we couldn't again. Like I said above- Great running backs do not equate to success. Would one help us? Yeah probably. Win us a Super Bowl? Not likely if history has any meaning.
     
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  9. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Right.

    Rodgers
    Brady
    Eli
    Peyton
    Big Ben
    Brees

    All have rings.
     
  10. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Chris Johnson.
    Jamaal Charles.
    Matt Forte.
    MJD.
    Steven Jackson.
    Lesean McCoy.
    DeAngelo Williams.
    Adrian Peterson.
    Marshawn Lynch.
    Ray Rice.

    Plus LaDanian Tomlinson.

    NO RINGS
     
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  11. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Please tell me we're not reverting back to the "you don't need a running game to win a championship" talk again?
     
  12. Cheesehead625

    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    I don't know what it is about me, but I love these questions. I get so excited about the draft. Don't get me wrong, by no means am I saying I don't care about the season or am I giving up... Far from that. I just like thinking about our future as well. Here's my take.

    1.) O-Line help. First and foremost we need a center. I know Chance Warmack is a Guard, but he may be a good future center and is a brute. Then there's Barrett Jones who will most likely be the first center off the board. Either way we need some more physical types up front. I argue with the fact that we need a stud running back. Good, physical run blocking is what makes a lot of runners who they are. Take for instance Arian Foster and put him on another team. There is no way he will be as good as he is with Houston. We need to revamp the Oline and our blocking scheme. Possibly grab another LT as well... not quite sold on Newhouse.

    2.) Running Back. There's a few out there that could come in and contribute. I really like Joseph Randle(even before Lattimore was hurt) and I would love to see us grab him in the first. Even if we had to trade up I think he's got potential to be the next big thing and a 3 down back. Other backs that look interesting are Le'Veon Bell looks seriously powerful and if he could loose a little weight, may be interesting. The only thing about him is he might not be fast enough to hit the holes and could be a big doughnut like Ron Dayne. Stepfan Taylor might be decent. Michael Dyer has tons of raw talent and either he or Knile Davis would be my second choice to Joseph Randle if they comes out.

    3.) ILB. You can't have enough strong inside linebacker's in a good 3-4 defense. We need a tough run stopper that can drop into the middle of the field if necessary. I don't believe we have a great linebacker core like you need with the 3-4. Of course I would love to grab Manti T'eo, but lets be serious here, we will never touch most of the guys on this list that I would love to have because we would need 3 picks in the top ten most likely. Since this will most likely be our 2-4 round pick my interests would be as follows: Andrew Jackson(named after a former president and grew up in the same town as Ray Lewis, what's not to like?), James Morris, Nico Johnson, or AJ Klein.

    4.) Big wideout or hybrid tightend. We just need a big body with good hands that can stay healthy. The packers have a small group of wide receivers and it would benefit Rodgers immensely if we had a big body that he trusted and could create mismatches. Seriously our tallest receiver is Finley at 6'5" and the only one who is close is Nelson at 6'3". We need to create some mismatches for jump balls and I'm pretty sure we know what we have in Finley. As I stated before there are a lot of hybrid tight ends in this years draft and we don't necessarily need some one fast.

    That's just my two cents. Feel free to pick it apart as I will take no offense.
     
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  13. Cheesehead625

    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    The best part is for any running back we wouldn't have to take them in the first... it's pretty deep this year. I'm actually leaning more toward a muscle hamster like Jawan Jamison who many think is going to be a lot like Ray Rice.
     
  14. Aaron rodgers is god

    Aaron rodgers is god Cheesehead

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    Which one of those RBs have a great QB. Oh wait nvm none of them do that's right. That is the reason why. Not so much that it is their fault. Out of all those teams Ray Rice and Lesean McCoy and Matt Forte have been on winning teams. Everyone else has had terrible teams for the most part of their career. Second off Those 3 guys are relatively young. They still have a lot of time. Also there is no known correlation with running backs and superbowls. I can make the same correlation with a bunch of different positions. All the 1st round cornerbacks to never win the superbowl. I'm sure there is a bunch of them.
     
  15. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Pats 2003 Smith/Faulk 1280 yards
    Pats 2004 Dillon/Faulk 1890 Yards
    Pitt 2005 Bettis/Parker 1570 yards
    Colts 2006 Addi/Rhodes 1722 yards
    Giants 2007 Jacobs/Ward 1661 yards
    Pitt 2008 Parker/Moore 1379 Yards
    Saints 2009 Thomas/Bell 1448 yards
    Packers 2010 Jackson/Kuhn 984 yards
    Giants 2011 Jacobs/Bradshaw
    1230 Yards

    Good think none of those QB mentioned needed any help from RB's. After all, its a passing league, right?
     
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  16. Cheesehead625

    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    Seriously though, You need a good blocking scheme, aggressive lineman with 1 or 2 serviceable running backs. You don't need a "Stud," but you need a respectable running game. Look at the Pats right now... best passing team in the league, but they can also run the ball. How about the Broncos in the 90s or the Steelers. It's really true guys, we need to develop a well rounded team to be dominate.
     
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  17. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Broke it down more for you guys. Back to the Packers in 1996. While having a top RB is not a requirement, having one or two that gets you at least 1200 yards helps.


    Code:
    Packers 1996    Bennett 899  Levens 566    1465    Yards
    Broncos 1997    Davis 1750    Hebron 222    1972    Yards
    Broncos 1998    David 2008    Loville 161  2169    Yards
    Rams 1999      Faulk 1381    Holcombe 294  1675    Yards
    Ravens 2000    Lewis 1364    Holnes 588    1952    Yards
    Pats 2001      Smith 1157    Faulk 169    1326    Yards
    Tampa 2002      Pittman 718  Alstott 548  1329    Yards
    Pats 2003      Smith 642    Faulk 638    1280    Yards
    Pats 2004      Dillon 1635  Faulk 255    1890    Yards
    Pitt 2005      Bettis 1202  Bettis 368    1570    Yards
    Colts 2006      Addi 1081    Rhodes 641    1722    Yards
    Giants 2007    Jacobs 1009  Ward 602      1611    Yards
    Pitt 2008      Parker 791    Moore 588    1379    Yards
    Saints 2009    Thomas 793    Bell 655      1448    Yards
    Packers 2010    Jackson 703  Khun 281      984    Yards
    Giants 2011    Jacobs 571    Bradshaw 659  1230    Yards
    
    Edit: I would also point out that in 2010 Khun was not the Packers second leading rusher. Rodgers was, with I think 385 yards. Same with Denver in 98(?), Elway was their second leading rusher.
     
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  18. jeffrogt

    jeffrogt Cheesehead

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    we don't need an elite rb to win a sb, we just need a serviceable back to balance out the offensive attack a bit, which is exactly what have (had/will get back at the end of the season) in benson. no need to spend a high draft pick. just get a guy who has the potential to be good enough to do so. use the high picks for a c or dt, depending on what's available...
     
  19. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I don't get it.
    Is the season over?
    Nope.
    Are the Packers losing? Is all the hope gone already?
    I don't think so.
    So why is this kind of talk here instead of on a Browns, Jags, 'Skins, or Jets board?
    Do we not have the talent?
    Sure we started in the cellar but the light switch has been found and we are walking up the stairs back into daylight.
     
  20. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Guys, our offense is 1-dimensional because we don't have a RB that can give us 2nd-and-5 or get 1st downs on 3rd and 4. I agree with the above poster that there are two main reasons for this, our OL and no RB. Improving our OL has to come first. Despite the fact that we've tried to find the silver lining, praising Newhouse for his development or Sitton for showing his 2010 form, fact is this line sucks.

    We need a top C to replace Saturday. We need a LT or RT who can play. Bulaga is playing way below expectations and Sherrod may or may not be able to fulfill his potential.

    And we need a RB. Alex Green hasn't done it. Yes, he's effectively a rookie, but once you are given your chance, you have to show some of that potential. I don't see it. Cedric Benson is a 1-year solution. James Starks is perpetually hurt.

    The OL is the weak point of this team right now, and is the biggest concern by far when it comes to our playoff hopes.

    If you're content to rely on Rodgers and the passing game putting on MVP performances every week, then good luck to you.

    And yes, our defense is better, but this is no elite defense. It might be next year, but not this year.
     
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  21. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    This thread has nothing to do with whether or not the Packers are losing or winning or fans losing hope.

    It's a "peak ahead to 2013", just like the title says. I like this thread. It's interesting.

    Chill, dude.
     
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  22. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I would like to snag the ND TE in the 1st round. He is big, fast and catches everything thrown near him.

    The line needs to be upgraded so I would draft a C and a T.

    Another dback for depth. The troubled former LSU guy would be a steal and there is probably no better place to stay clean than GB.

    I would try to dump Finley for a RB...especially if Eiffert is drafted.

    Throw in a developmental receiver and QB and a body for the D-line.
     
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  23. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The OP is pretty much straight on. TT has done a decent job of drafting DL players so I'm not concerned about going after a high pick. My lone argument with the OP would be about backup QB. There is still no need to spend a draft choice any higher than 5th round on QB. I also wouldn't call Graham Harrell a disaster just because he fumbled the ball when Jeff Saturday got knocked backwards into the QB. That said, I'm quite sure that TT and MM will look to bring someone in that they can develop.
     
  24. Cheesehead625

    Cheesehead625 Cheesehead

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    I like Tyler Eifert as well, but honestly there is a ton of hybrid talent in this draft that we can grab at value. For instance I really like the kid from Ucla Joseph Fauria, but he's mostly a big receiver and not very thick. A few sleepers at value would be Gavin Escobar from San Diego State, Zach Ertz from Stanford, and Zach Sudfeld from Nevada.. I might have missed a few, but it's deep. I really hope they take advantage of this, but there's such strong talent at O-line this year that we will probably have to hit big on a sleeper RB and Hybrid TE if we get one.
     
  25. Shawnsta3

    Shawnsta3 Cheesehead

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    Good thing almost half of these guys you mentioned went undrafted right? After all, the best RB's always do.

    Pats 2003 Smith 23 overall/ Faulk 46 overall
    Pats 2004 Dillon 43 overall/ Faulk 46 overall
    Pitt 2005 Bettis 10 overall/ Parker undrafted
    Colts 2006 (Addai?) 30 overall/ Rhodes undrafted
    Giants 2007 Jacobs 110 overall/ Ward undrafted
    Pitt 2008 Parker undrafted/ Moore 119 overall
    Saints 2009 Thomas undrafted/ undrafted
    Packers 2010 Jackson 63 overall/ Kuhn undrafted
    Giants 2011 Jacobs 110 overall/ 250 overall

    According to the names you provided me of the last 9 Super Bowl winners with their top 2 rushers is 18 names, 7 were undrafted and 3 were taken in the first round. I know where I want Ted to target a running back next year. The fact is A running back is not a smart way to use a draft pick, especially early. Every fact points to it, the difference between running backs in the draft from top to bottom (or in this case not in the draft at all) are very slim.

    I see your post wasn't directly arguing running backs and the draft but I got the feeling you meant to get help in the running game through the draft, early. At the very least this was just a expansion on my last comment with your information and my take on it. Disregard if so.
     

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