The Parson's Trade: How to Become a Basement Dweller

[OldSchool101]

The reality is that most people were shocked at the cost but elated at the coup of bringing in Parsons to help with a Super Bowl. There are probably 2-3 contributors on this forum that could go back and point to posts they made last August/September stating how bad this was for the Packers.

This is a hindsight discussion. For years fans complained about the Packers not going all-in to get back to the SB. Well you know what, you strike out more often than you hit homers when swinging for the fences. We struck out. No regrets.

Amen. So far I’d the key phrase. The story isn’t over just quite yet. His was an extension so he’s signed through 2030. That this year + 4 more. Reggie White didn’t change the culture in 1 year. Reggie’s best Individual seasons in GB were in 1995 and 1998 in his 3rd and 5th seasons with us. Lots of football left this year with Parsons and lots yet going forward.

 

[easyk83]

The reality is that most people were shocked at the cost but elated at the coup of bringing in Parsons to help with a Super Bowl. There are probably 2-3 contributors on this forum that could go back and point to posts they made last August/September stating how bad this was for the Packers.

This is a hindsight discussion. For years fans complained about the Packers not going all-in to get back to the SB. Well you know what, you strike out more often than you hit homers when swinging for the fences. We struck out. No regrets.

For me it's part of a long term philosophy. I'm leery of acquiring superstars because the market price is set by the worst organizations in the league.

I favor a volume approach because the gods of football laugh at the plans of GMs and front offices.

 

[milani]

Amen. So far I’d the key phrase. The story isn’t over just quite yet. His was an extension so he’s signed through 2030. That this year + 4 more. Reggie White didn’t change the culture in 1 year. Reggie’s best Individual seasons in GB were in 1995 and 1998 in his 3rd and 5th seasons with us. Lots of football left this year with Parsons and lots yet going forward.

But we did go to the playoffs in his first year for this first time in a full season in 20 years. The man had an impact on those around him. Recall that he was the one who gave the ball to LeRoy for the Lambeau Leap. Recall that he was the one who preserved the 30-27 victory over Denver with 3 sacks of Elway. And he was the one who came back from an injury right away that would have sidelined most players for a number of weeks.

 

[Pugger]

I firmly believe you don't pass up a chance to acquire a generational talent like Parsons even if you are more than a player or two away from being a serious contender. Our chances of drafting a guy like him where we have been picking is slim to non. It sucks he got hurt but of all the moves by Gute this one is low on my disappointment scale.

 

[Pugger]

Now I will say.... like previously, I don't think the Parsons deal was responsible for crippling us or whatnot. But I think the bigger conversation is WHY the front office felt they needed to make the deal in the first place?

Again like I said - generally speaking if you have the opportunity to get a guy like Parsons, in all likelihood you make the deal, especially if it's a position of need...

BUT I think we have to ask then. Would the Parsons deal still have happened if guys like LVN and Gary had panned out (or panned out sooner, at least)? I think we call can admit that when we drafted LVN, for instance, it wasn't with the intention to spend a 1st on him and then two years later package two more 1sts to bring in another EDGE player to partner with him

On the basis of the player and the performance that he brings, barring injury (which of course could not be accounted for) I would say that it was still a "good" deal for the "right" player. We had the opportunity to add one of the best players in the league at a position of need for us. That part is fine. As above though, the issue is that we "needed" to make that deal in the first place.

Long story short I guess it goes to show the importance on getting quality contributors out of your early selections. Like I said, if we don't trade for Parsons then sure - we do have more capital to invest in the OL or wherever else, but we still have a big need at EDGE. But if we hit on those picks, we don't have a pressing need at EDGE....AND still retain that capital to invest in OL or CB or WR or whatnot. And I know it's not fair to expect every draft pick to "hit" (and much less be anywhere close to a Parsons-level player) but you really have to get impact players with those early picks. It doesn't make a lot of sense to play the "draft and develop" long game and then try and rectify it with a huge splash "win now" type signing I guess.

Let's pretend we didn't make the deal and we kept Clark and the draft picks. Where we were picking we weren't gonna get an EDGE player of Parson's caliber. Draft picks are a lottery. Even if are picking high there is no guarantee a coveted collegiate player will be an impact player in the NFL. We had a shot at a generational player and jumped at it. Had we declined Jerry's offer there was a long line of suitors waiting in the wings.

 

[OldSchool101]

Every team can play the injury card to some extent. I didn’t see any excuses being made for Ben Johnson last night being down to his 3rd string QB. No one needed to, because his team beat down a good Eagles team by 20 nonetheless. Because legitimate contenders are a complete team and more than just their star player.

While that singular example is true. You could’ve said the same thing about Green Bay. Malik Willis came in and Won both Weeks 2,3 in 2024. Does that suddenly equate to us being perennial Super Bowl contenders?

 

[adambr2]

While that singular example is true. You could’ve said the same thing about Green Bay. Malik Willis came in and Won both Weeks 2,3 in 2024. Does that suddenly equate to us being perennial Super Bowl contenders?

I think Malik Willis was/is actually just really good (and partly of course in credit to our staff for developing him), although what a terrible situation for him now.

This is a radical thought process and most will disagree with me, but I actually kind of thought if we had traded Love for 2-3 first round picks rather than extending him, signed Willis to a 3 year or so extension for 30M a year or so, it could have worked out a lot better than what our current trajectory is. I think if Matt ends up getting fired, the moves above might end up having saved his career here. I just think Willis fits the offense he wants to run so well.

And I know none of that was ever going to happen and I know most will disagree with me.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think Malik Willis was/is actually just really good (and partly of course in credit to our staff for developing him), although what a terrible situation for him now.

This is a radical thought process and most will disagree with me, but I actually kind of thought if we had traded Love for 2-3 first round picks rather than extending him, signed Willis to a 3 year or so extension for 30M a year or so, it could have worked out a lot better than what our current trajectory is. I think if Matt ends up getting fired, the moves above might end up having saved his career here. I just think Willis fits the offense he wants to run so well.

And I know none of that was ever going to happen and I know most will disagree with me.

Not crazy at all and nothing should ever be out of the question in this league. Malik gave us a triple threat. Play action and if he’s flushed he’s a dangerous Runner (averages 6 per). So that’s one valid way of looking at it and banking the $$ for other positions and building around gradually. That a you wouldn’t feel bad about spending a Day 2 pick on a substantial Backup QB with great upside than slides out of RD1.

What i see is a more traditional really good pocket passer with moderate legs too. He’s had a 1st starting season and took us to a Divisional. Last year our OL was similarly in shambles and by most metrics was actually bottom 1/3 of the league. Many reasonable excuses but Love was not a benefactor of a good OL and he still performed moderately good. He also lost 17 combined games of Watson and Reed and then lost much of Kraft. So not ideal weapons without a true standout WR. It was WR by committed and Doubs stepped up.

In 2026 we go in without a healthy Zach or Banks which were hurt much of training camp. Brian gambled a little bit and lost. Easier to look backwards and say he should’ve signed a veteran but maybe his intel was Zach was fine. In real time Jordan had the least experienced OL to ever set field in GB. O actually counted at one point 14 total Starts FINISHED at respective positions. I’m not counting 1/3 games etc. that’s TOTAL across 5 positions.

Love is lucky he’s not injured. 1 player we just signed has 230 Starts at 1 respective position. Landen has 136 complete games at LG. Big difference.

 

[OldSchool101]

Point is in this exercise that when we grade our QB1 we should factor his environment. Funny story but this near EXACT same thing happened to him in College. He went from 49 points per game in a Sophomore season to leading FCS in INT. YUCK! Yet look closer…Love lost 9 of his 10 remaining O personnel in transition. Im talking just offense now.

So Love comes in HEAVILY scrutinized. He made us all look like fools by the end of 2023 playoffs (Jan-Feb 2024) imo. Me included I never thought we’d go Divisional. He’s a dang good QB and when properly protected he’s literally a Top 5 Passer and I’m being generous to a couple QB’s for career accolades. Malik covered up some weakness in our OL with his legs. There’s only several QB’s that can do that and guys like Malik, Lamar, Mahomes, Caleb and a few others will make you pay for being overzealous. The rest will get killed and especially guys like Stafford or Goff or Love thise guys need time.

We have no clear RB1 and still face questions at RB2. We also have no clear answer at OL until it’s displayed on the field. I’m 90% sure if you get love just a little more protection he’ll tear it up. He’s already proved himself and for those that gave forgotten in playoffs? Go take 30 minutes and rewatch that last Bears playoff game and tell me you’d trade that QB? No way. Had Micah Parsons played that game imo it’s a Packer Win 8/10 times.

Jordan Love doesn’t play RB or TE or RT, RG, LG, Center or EDGE or CB or DT or PK last time I checked. That’s been far more of our issues during his tenure. Our focus goes to finger pointing because many of us forget that momentum is a real thing in sports. Micah Parsons (when healthy) will give us at minimum $35M+ in production. Lose your best players and this is what results.

 

[milani]

I think Malik Willis was/is actually just really good (and partly of course in credit to our staff for developing him), although what a terrible situation for him now.

This is a radical thought process and most will disagree with me, but I actually kind of thought if we had traded Love for 2-3 first round picks rather than extending him, signed Willis to a 3 year or so extension for 30M a year or so, it could have worked out a lot better than what our current trajectory is. I think if Matt ends up getting fired, the moves above might end up having saved his career here. I just think Willis fits the offense he wants to run so well.

And I know none of that was ever going to happen and I know most will disagree with me.

Malik did very well. But recall who the opponents were. Colts and Titans. Not exactly the toughest opponents. The real test comes against the better teams.

I think Malik Willis was/is actually just really good (and partly of course in credit to our staff for developing him), although what a terrible situation for him now.

This is a radical thought process and most will disagree with me, but I actually kind of thought if we had traded Love for 2-3 first round picks rather than extending him, signed Willis to a 3 year or so extension for 30M a year or so, it could have worked out a lot better than what our current trajectory is. I think if Matt ends up getting fired, the moves above might end up having saved his career here. I just think Willis fits the offense he wants to run so well.

And I know none of that was ever going to happen and I know most will disagree with me.

 

[Magooch]

I've said it before probably but I think some of our OL scheme shifts and just general struggles have really negatively impacted just the way Love can operate, even without considering the pressure.

Look back to the Rodgers years. We played a lot of outside zone blocking schemes, a lot of emphasis on horizontal width. And think back, some of Rodgers' most dangerous moments were him out on a boot, getting into horizontal space then uncorking a deep pass. Rodgers excelled at this because he was surprisingly quick/agile, great footwork, and a speedy release. So when our OL is spreading the field like this, it really suits his game.

BUT IMO that same scheme doesn't suit Jordan so well. He's not as fast, he doesn't have the same footwork, and he's taller and has longer arms - he doesn't have the same quick release, it takes a little longer, a little more looping motion. If/when we create that horizontal spacing IMO it's not as beneficial to Love because he's not as mobile and not as adept at quick releasing those snap passes on a roll out.

That said there are pros and cons to both. Obviously Rodgers was an absolute wizard in these moments BUT the downside (arguably) is that when you boot right, for instance, much of the left side is effectively cut off. It's not really in your field of vision and it's ill-advised (to say the least) to kick out right and try and throw cross-body cross-field to the left. Again Rodgers obviously made it work but it's not like it's a foolproof strategy with no shortcomings.

LOVE on the other hand, I think he really excels in a more "vertical" pocket. He's a little taller and staying more central allows him to survey more of the field which I think really suits his game more. He's really good at those layered throws... when the OL is getting more vertical push, Love gets a little bit more of a pocket that he can step up into and move back a touch if need be, he can work through his progressions and put a great touch on the ball. The stats support this pretty well too, if Love can just post up in a clean pocket he will absolutely slice you up.

SO I guess all that to say, even IF our OL were somewhat competent, sometimes I feel like our scheming hasn't always been playing to Love's strengths. Stick him behind the same OL as Rodgers' units and I don't know if you would get the best out of him...and stick Rodgers behind a more power, vertical oriented OL and I don't know if that's playing to his strengths either. So we really need to address the OL in quality overall - we can't just have Love running for his life every play - but a secondary consideration should also be just how exactly our OL scheming can mesh with Love's natural strengths too. I think some of the "struggles" he has had are not necessarily his own failings, or issues with the skill positions, OR even always just bad OL play, but a situation where the OL is wanting to do one thing and Love is really more comfortable with another

 

[easyk83]

I think Malik Willis was/is actually just really good (and partly of course in credit to our staff for developing him), although what a terrible situation for him now.

This is a radical thought process and most will disagree with me, but I actually kind of thought if we had traded Love for 2-3 first round picks rather than extending him, signed Willis to a 3 year or so extension for 30M a year or so, it could have worked out a lot better than what our current trajectory is. I think if Matt ends up getting fired, the moves above might end up having saved his career here. I just think Willis fits the offense he wants to run so well.

And I know none of that was ever going to happen and I know most will disagree with me.

The volume centric approach to football approves of this strategy.

 

[OldSchool101]

I've said it before probably but I think some of our OL scheme shifts and just general struggles have really negatively impacted just the way Love can operate, even without considering the pressure.

Look back to the Rodgers years. We played a lot of outside zone blocking schemes, a lot of emphasis on horizontal width. And think back, some of Rodgers' most dangerous moments were him out on a boot, getting into horizontal space then uncorking a deep pass. Rodgers excelled at this because he was surprisingly quick/agile, great footwork, and a speedy release. So when our OL is spreading the field like this, it really suits his game.

BUT IMO that same scheme doesn't suit Jordan so well. He's not as fast, he doesn't have the same footwork, and he's taller and has longer arms - he doesn't have the same quick release, it takes a little longer, a little more looping motion. If/when we create that horizontal spacing IMO it's not as beneficial to Love because he's not as mobile and not as adept at quick releasing those snap passes on a roll out.

That said there are pros and cons to both. Obviously Rodgers was an absolute wizard in these moments BUT the downside (arguably) is that when you boot right, for instance, much of the left side is effectively cut off. It's not really in your field of vision and it's ill-advised (to say the least) to kick out right and try and throw cross-body cross-field to the left. Again Rodgers obviously made it work but it's not like it's a foolproof strategy with no shortcomings.

LOVE on the other hand, I think he really excels in a more "vertical" pocket. He's a little taller and staying more central allows him to survey more of the field which I think really suits his game more. He's really good at those layered throws... when the OL is getting more vertical push, Love gets a little bit more of a pocket that he can step up into and move back a touch if need be, he can work through his progressions and put a great touch on the ball. The stats support this pretty well too, if Love can just post up in a clean pocket he will absolutely slice you up.

SO I guess all that to say, even IF our OL were somewhat competent, sometimes I feel like our scheming hasn't always been playing to Love's strengths. Stick him behind the same OL as Rodgers' units and I don't know if you would get the best out of him...and stick Rodgers behind a more power, vertical oriented OL and I don't know if that's playing to his strengths either. So we really need to address the OL in quality overall - we can't just have Love running for his life every play - but a secondary consideration should also be just how exactly our OL scheming can mesh with Love's natural strengths too. I think some of the "struggles" he has had are not necessarily his own failings, or issues with the skill positions, OR even always just bad OL play, but a situation where the OL is wanting to do one thing and Love is really more comfortable with another

I know there’s focus on Parson’s value and it’s in play because he’s now missed what? 8 games?

Yet Another thing to consider is we just lost 1 of our top 2 WR’s imo. Reed is out for 2026. Skyy would be the most logical fit, but he’s never really exceeded that 350 yards area to date. Maybe He’s ready? Idk.

Also where the heck is Savion Williams?. He cost us a RD3 investment and he’s been largely MIA. It just seems like we’ve quietly lost several players who could help contribute. Especially when our QB needs to get the ball out quickly. Losing a good Slot and good RB just multiplies our problems.

 

[gopkrs]

I've said it before probably but I think some of our OL scheme shifts and just general struggles have really negatively impacted just the way Love can operate, even without considering the pressure.

Look back to the Rodgers years. We played a lot of outside zone blocking schemes, a lot of emphasis on horizontal width. And think back, some of Rodgers' most dangerous moments were him out on a boot, getting into horizontal space then uncorking a deep pass. Rodgers excelled at this because he was surprisingly quick/agile, great footwork, and a speedy release. So when our OL is spreading the field like this, it really suits his game.

BUT IMO that same scheme doesn't suit Jordan so well. He's not as fast, he doesn't have the same footwork, and he's taller and has longer arms - he doesn't have the same quick release, it takes a little longer, a little more looping motion. If/when we create that horizontal spacing IMO it's not as beneficial to Love because he's not as mobile and not as adept at quick releasing those snap passes on a roll out.

That said there are pros and cons to both. Obviously Rodgers was an absolute wizard in these moments BUT the downside (arguably) is that when you boot right, for instance, much of the left side is effectively cut off. It's not really in your field of vision and it's ill-advised (to say the least) to kick out right and try and throw cross-body cross-field to the left. Again Rodgers obviously made it work but it's not like it's a foolproof strategy with no shortcomings.

LOVE on the other hand, I think he really excels in a more "vertical" pocket. He's a little taller and staying more central allows him to survey more of the field which I think really suits his game more. He's really good at those layered throws... when the OL is getting more vertical push, Love gets a little bit more of a pocket that he can step up into and move back a touch if need be, he can work through his progressions and put a great touch on the ball. The stats support this pretty well too, if Love can just post up in a clean pocket he will absolutely slice you up.

SO I guess all that to say, even IF our OL were somewhat competent, sometimes I feel like our scheming hasn't always been playing to Love's strengths. Stick him behind the same OL as Rodgers' units and I don't know if you would get the best out of him...and stick Rodgers behind a more power, vertical oriented OL and I don't know if that's playing to his strengths either. So we really need to address the OL in quality overall - we can't just have Love running for his life every play - but a secondary consideration should also be just how exactly our OL scheming can mesh with Love's natural strengths too. I think some of the "struggles" he has had are not necessarily his own failings, or issues with the skill positions, OR even always just bad OL play, but a situation where the OL is wanting to do one thing and Love is really more comfortable with another

I only want to say that if we could open holes for the RBs to run through; that would help Love immensely.

 

[easyk83]

Reed being gone or injured is like the sun coming up

 

[milani]

I've said it before probably but I think some of our OL scheme shifts and just general struggles have really negatively impacted just the way Love can operate, even without considering the pressure.

Look back to the Rodgers years. We played a lot of outside zone blocking schemes, a lot of emphasis on horizontal width. And think back, some of Rodgers' most dangerous moments were him out on a boot, getting into horizontal space then uncorking a deep pass. Rodgers excelled at this because he was surprisingly quick/agile, great footwork, and a speedy release. So when our OL is spreading the field like this, it really suits his game.

BUT IMO that same scheme doesn't suit Jordan so well. He's not as fast, he doesn't have the same footwork, and he's taller and has longer arms - he doesn't have the same quick release, it takes a little longer, a little more looping motion. If/when we create that horizontal spacing IMO it's not as beneficial to Love because he's not as mobile and not as adept at quick releasing those snap passes on a roll out.

That said there are pros and cons to both. Obviously Rodgers was an absolute wizard in these moments BUT the downside (arguably) is that when you boot right, for instance, much of the left side is effectively cut off. It's not really in your field of vision and it's ill-advised (to say the least) to kick out right and try and throw cross-body cross-field to the left. Again Rodgers obviously made it work but it's not like it's a foolproof strategy with no shortcomings.

LOVE on the other hand, I think he really excels in a more "vertical" pocket. He's a little taller and staying more central allows him to survey more of the field which I think really suits his game more. He's really good at those layered throws... when the OL is getting more vertical push, Love gets a little bit more of a pocket that he can step up into and move back a touch if need be, he can work through his progressions and put a great touch on the ball. The stats support this pretty well too, if Love can just post up in a clean pocket he will absolutely slice you up.

SO I guess all that to say, even IF our OL were somewhat competent, sometimes I feel like our scheming hasn't always been playing to Love's strengths. Stick him behind the same OL as Rodgers' units and I don't know if you would get the best out of him...and stick Rodgers behind a more power, vertical oriented OL and I don't know if that's playing to his strengths either. So we really need to address the OL in quality overall - we can't just have Love running for his life every play - but a secondary consideration should also be just how exactly our OL scheming can mesh with Love's natural strengths too. I think some of the "struggles" he has had are not necessarily his own failings, or issues with the skill positions, OR even always just bad OL play, but a situation where the OL is wanting to do one thing and Love is really more comfortable with another

You are correct. And we can see how Rodgers struggles with that now because he does not have that same speed and agility. In many ways you are describing Mahommes who uses that to his advantage in his prime. Love is a different shape shifter.

 

[gopkrs]

On the other hand Rodgers threw for 3 tds and 300 yards. And brought them back to tie it up with a qb sneak.

 

[milani]

On the other hand Rodgers threw for 3 tds and 300 yards. And brought them back to tie it up with a qb sneak.

With ARod you need protection more now since he cannot escape like the old days. Plus he holds the ball.
When Brady went to Tampa and Manning went to Denver they inherited good offensive lines. Steelers D needed to play more like the Steel Curtain.

 

[rmontro]

I actually kind of thought if we had traded Love for 2-3 first round picks rather than extending him, signed Willis to a 3 year or so extension for 30M a year or so, it could have worked out a lot better than what our current trajectory is.

Do you really think we could get 2-3 first round picks for Love?

 

[gopkrs]

With ARod you need protection more now since he cannot escape like the old days. Plus he holds the ball.
When Brady went to Tampa and Manning went to Denver they inherited good offensive lines. Steelers D needed to play more like the Steel Curtain.

Why do you think he's holding onto the ball? I think it's because nobody's open. He is fortunate to have an xlnt RB

 

[adambr2]

Do you really think we could get 2-3 first round picks for Love?

Oh, at that time, absolutely. Now would be a little different and hard to figure out because it’s hard to trade lucrative long-term contracts with big signing bonuses.

But prior to him signing his extension in July of 2024? He had just thrown for 4159 yards, 32 TDs and 11 INTs in his first year starting. He was 25.

QB needy teams would have been lining up to make that deal if he had been made available at that time.

 

[milani]

Why do you think he's holding onto the ball? I think it's because nobody's open. He is fortunate to have an xlnt RB

If you recall, Rodgers was Favre's heir. #4 had a history of gunslinging. Lots of exciting TDs but a lot of INTs. One of the hopes of TT was that Rodgers would not have the same number of turnovers. He protects the ball at all costs so as not to throw the pick. That is his style.

 

[OldSchool101]

Reed being gone or injured is like the sun coming up

Only more recently.
I know you say that but Reed actually was healthy his first 2 seasons. He was inactive for Carolina in 2023, but otherwise played in 33/34 possible games. Leading GB in Receiving yards in both seasons.
It wasn’t until last year he succumbed to injury on that long TD bomb.