1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up/a> or Log In

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

Saints punishment... wow. just wow.

Discussion in 'All Other Team Discussions' started by bozz_2006, Mar 21, 2012.

  1. SyX
    Offline

    SyX Stranger in a strange land

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    Just north of Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +90 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    2007
    So stealing signals and plays, which dates back to the beginning of sports (and competition of any kind) is less acceptable than intentionally trying to hurt another player, affecting their health and potentially their livelihood? That's like saying Tanya Harding was okay in taking out Nancy Kerrigan, but if she had videotaped her practices and gained an advantage there, she would have been over the line.

    And no, I do not condone what the Pats did.
  2. Bogart
    Offline

    Bogart Duke Mantee

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    2,551
    Location:
    Mobile, AL U.S.
    Ratings:
    +871 / 5 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1992

    This stuff has been going on for years, and most of the old timers did it too.

    Ditka's Bears, the "Greatest defense ever" paid for knock out hits, according to the man himself, and he didn't see where it was a big deal. And that I believe, for as many quarterbacks the Bears put out of games in the 80's and for as many turnovers they had, I'm sure they all were getting bonuses. Joe Gibbs has admitted to doing it, and he don't care either. He used to hand out hundred dollar bills for knock out hits. Go back and watch all those great Redskins defenses too that he coached, and they were killing machines. I always wondered too, did the Cowboys pay a bonus to who ever put Jim Kelly out of the game in the Super Bowl when they ran the score up to 52 points on the Bills? And how about the Giants putting Montana out of the 1990 NFC Championship game? Who ever broke his ribs probably got a major bonus for taking out the leader of that offense.

    Even more so, what gets over looked is the Baltimore Ravens admitted back in 2008 they were running the bounty system in the playoffs to take Mendenhall and Ward out of a game against the Steelers. And if the Ravens did it, you can believe the Steelers did it in return to them.


    I'll also say, that the Kurt Warner knock out was a legal hit, and even funnier, Kurt Warner is not bitching about it. He's said it was a legal hit himself! Do you see Brett Favre whining to the media that he didn't make it to the Super Bowl cause the Saints were trying to kill him? Regardless all the dumb things Favre has done, I don't see him making a big deal about it and he took that game like a man, so for that, I will not say a bad thing about it regarding the NFC Championship.

    But what gets me is, no one investigated the Giants this year. You know the team that was faking injuries in games to stop the hurry up offense. While the Saints get the hammer, what about the Giants? They also admitted in interviews that they were trying to target Kyle Williams head in the NFC Championship because of all the concussions he had, made him "an easy target". So what the Saints did to quarterbacks knocking them around was bad, but the Giants was OK?



    I think Spy gate was worse, but Bellichek didn't get suspended, so why should Payton? Payton don't even run that defense, let alone control anything that happens on that side of the ball.But you know, the Pats, and Giants, the Eastern biased to the NFL, can get by with everything, because they are the Pats and Giants that everyone loves as a big market team and in the Super Bowl as 2 crappy teams that had no business being there this year.


    I don't like Gregg Williams as a defensive coordinator either, never have. He blitzes way too much, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Saints were one of 20 teams that does this in the league. That's what I will put at it. 20 years ago, I wouldn't argue that everyone did it, and in today's league, I still will argue that it's an active thing going on.
  3. Brandon
    Offline

    Brandon Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Ratings:
    +60 / 37 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1995
    The Saints blatantly broke the rules in place on bounty programs which directly coincides with the League's strong policies on play safety in which this is blatant disregard for that.


    Player safety policy is not the issue here, the issue is one coach paying another player to hit another player. If there was no money on the line and the coach told a player "Hey, go put that QB's face in the dirt and don't be nice about it" there would be NO punishment, because so long as the hit is legitimate there is no penalty for playing hard. The only reason this is a problem is because there is money being involved, it isn't about the hits themselves.

    Paying one player to hit another player also gives you NO advantage during game time, none whatsoever. On the other hand, STEALING signals that coordinate with how an entire defensive or offensive side of the ball gives you what you need to win games, and that is far more egregious in my opinion. Again I'm not defending the Saints actions, but there is no sense whining about the actual hits.. this is football.
  4. Valhalla Express
    Offline

    Valhalla Express SKOL VIKINGS!

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    141
    Location:
    Northern Minnesota
    Ratings:
    +62 / 3 / -1
    This is how I pictured GM Loomis and Coach Payton at the beginning of last season:
    [​IMG]

    This is how I picture SUSPENDED GM Loomis and SUSPENDED Coach Payton at the beginning of this season:

    [​IMG]

    Enough said...

    ~Val
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Brandon
    Offline

    Brandon Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Ratings:
    +60 / 37 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1995
    So stealing signals and plays, which dates back to the beginning of sports (and competition of any kind) is less acceptable than intentionally trying to hurt another player, affecting their health and potentially their livelihood? That's like saying Tanya Harding was okay in taking out Nancy Kerrigan, but if she had videotaped her practices and gained an advantage there, she would have been over the line.


    This is the dumbest argument you could have made, your example is terrible. Tanya Harding paid some low-lives to take a weapon and bust Kerrigan's legs. If a Saints player had maybe brass knuckles in their gloves and was throwing punches while tackling, you might have some debate but this is far from the case. The actual hits taking place were NOT flagged and thus in-game they were as clean as they get. In football you take hard hits, if you don't want to see hard hits then feel free to watch flag football.

    It is every players job to inflict as much pain as possible. Players don't even hide the fact that when a player is knowingly injured, they will INTENTIONALLY target that area. There is nothing dirty about wanting to punish the other team on the field, and if you think there is then you are watching the wrong sport. As I said, the issue here is a coach paying another player. If it was a players bounty between one another, the punishment would be non-existent or far less severe. Bank on it.
  6. Wood Chipper
    Offline

    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    3,936
    Location:
    Virginia
    Ratings:
    +1,368 / 23 / -2
    Packer Fan Since:
    2001
    Good punishment
  7. SyX
    Offline

    SyX Stranger in a strange land

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    Just north of Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +90 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    2007
    Past this, I'm not going to further argue this with you as you have your opinion and I have mine. I don't see how it is all that much different. She knew her best chance at success was through injuring Kerrigan. She didn't exactly have the chance to deliver that blow on the field of competition, now did she? Last I watched, figure skating wasn't a contact sport, nor one of simultaneous head to head competition.

    I'll acknowledge, while it is natural to try to gain an advantage, sometimes by keying on an injury, these players were encouraged to create injuries, and rewarded for doing so.

    I do not argue that it has, is, and probably will continue to happen. I do not argue that if it were between players, the punishment would have been different. I also do not understand where anyone would come off saying because it happened in the past, we should turn a blind eye. Players now are bigger, stronger, faster. Fields are not the same as they used to be. Yes, teams in the '80s and '90's had bounties. At one point, players in the NFL didn't wear helmets. Player safety and the focus on quality of life have evolved.

    I had my leg severely broken, my ACL, MCL, PCL and LCL torn by the brother of the QB who backed me up in high school. In practice. I know it happens. I also know how it can affect the rest of your life. I hope that the punishments handed out today will, to some level, curb the activity.
  8. AmishMafia
    Offline

    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,189
    Location:
    PENDING
    Ratings:
    +1,509 / 52 / -4
    I see a huge difference with Spygate.

    First I thought Belicheck should have been suspended, and I'm still pissed that he wasn't.

    But this is something entirely different. It is my understanding that teams were warned not to do this several times in the last few years. It probably did happen back in the day, but that doesn't make it right today. Trying to hit someone hard and intimidate is different than trying to hit them in such a way as to cause injury. A LB flying in at a QB can try to swat that ball from his hand, but hey, aiming for the elbow there is a good chance he can do some ligament damage and make a cool $10k. Is that what we want for the NFL? A tit for tat effort to put players in the hospital?

    If Rodgers had a career ending injury from a Saint player 2 years ago and we found out the player got a slap on the back and $20k bonus, how would we feel then? Was it a part of the game for the DE to hit the Rodgers in the front of the knee, acting like he was pushed into him. But in reality he wanted to injure Rodgers permanently because his coach told him too and his MLB teammate will give him some cash.
  9. Brandon
    Offline

    Brandon Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2012
    Messages:
    157
    Ratings:
    +60 / 37 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1995

    There is going to be a difference of opinion between MANY people I am sure in how Goodell handled this situation, and I respect all opinions on the matter. The fact is the Saints blatantly broke a rule and I am not condoning their actions, it isn't the Coach's job to offer extra incentive for players to harm other players. Whether or not the punishment is just or too harsh is not up to me, I won't comment either way on it.

    But I simply can't be convinced otherwise that the actions of a player brutally tackling another player is worse than stealing signals, since that does damage the integrity and balance of the game. As you pointed out this is a contact sport, and many players play angry and want to cause pain. Also I don't like it when someone has to mention that today's players are bigger and stronger than before, which would mean the players getting hit are just as big and strong and fast.. so the end result won't be too different, particularly with our upgraded gear.
  10. Lunchboxer
    Offline

    Lunchboxer Guest

    Ratings:
    +76 / 3 / -4
  11. SyX
    Offline

    SyX Stranger in a strange land

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    Just north of Baltimore
    Ratings:
    +90 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    2007
    No decision Goodell makes is going to be the "perfect decision" in everyone's opinion. I am glad, if anything, that he came down too hard.

    And yes, I agree that SpyGate hurt the integrity of the game, and I am not happy with how that situation was handled. The two situations aren't the same, and as you pointed out with my Kerrigan reference, it is hard to mix two that are unrelated. I think part of my approval of how this situation was handled is because of the way SpyGate was (or wasn't, again, many people have different opinions).

    And yes, to a point, you are correct in saying it is a weak argument to mention that today's players are bigger and stronger. But to some extent, it does hold water as valid. Applying that weight and strength to an ankle, knee of shoulder, especially with intent to injure can be devastating.
  12. Lunchboxer
    Offline

    Lunchboxer Guest

    Ratings:
    +76 / 3 / -4

    Thats pretty funny Val.
  13. Kitten
    Offline

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,034
    Location:
    Philly/ South Jersey area
    Ratings:
    +1,388 / 7 / -1
    Packer Fan Since:
    1993
  14. Southpaw
    Offline

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    PA
    Ratings:
    +422 / 16 / -4
    Do you know what other atrocities were acceptable in years past????

    Slaves
    Beating women
    Raping women
    Child labor
    Burning witches

    Shall I coninue?

    Stop being such a jackwaggon. Goodell warned these idiots that if they kept it up he would drop the hammer. He let teams know in 2007 "if you break this rule, there will be consequences".

    We're all adults and everyone in the Saints organization KNEW they were breaking the rules and were lying about it.

    Screw them and screw your logic of "if everyone's doing it then it must be ok."

    goddamn kids.

    When your boss tells you to stop doing something, god damn stop doing it! It's real simple. The league put some rules in place, they broke them, lied about it when confronted and are now paying the price.

    It's not bullshit
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Kitten
    Offline

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,034
    Location:
    Philly/ South Jersey area
    Ratings:
    +1,388 / 7 / -1
    Packer Fan Since:
    1993
    Calm down, soldier. I don't know if any of that was directed at Bogart, but as you were quoting his post, I can say he was in all logic NOT condoning the behavior, but just making an observation that it's been going on for years and now is the first time Goodell has decided to lay down the hammer and make a point.
  16. Southpaw
    Offline

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2011
    Messages:
    1,164
    Location:
    PA
    Ratings:
    +422 / 16 / -4
    Sorry.

    No it wasn't directed straight towards him but more generally. Whether it's been going on around the league or has been done in decades past is irrelevant, IMO.

    There are rules in place, the Saints knew them and blatantly disregarded them and then were dishonest about it. To be surprised that the hammer was dropped to this degree is silly. Especially when everyone has seen how fast and hard players are being disciplined for violations of rules in place for player safety.

    I also fail to see how taping some hand signals is worse than the livelihood of players being risked because some guy wants whats in the pot.

    Taping Hand Signal isn't going to guarantee you win a single down of football let alone a game or 3 superbowls or become a team that makes the playoffs every year. I really don't see how it's worse than this incident.

    This was 3 straight seasons of disregard for the well being of opposing players. Not hitting guys with the intent to make a play but hitting them with the pure intent of causing physical harm. Contact is part of football, but the act of hitting other players is not the basis of this sport.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Jules
    Offline

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754 / 9 / -0
    I am stunned. A year? Stunned.

    Seems harsh to me. Sorry guys. Had the same argument with Colts fans too who were cheering over it.
  18. Jules
    Offline

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754 / 9 / -0
    No. They earned it in the SB. They beat the Colts fair and square.
  19. RB1958
    Offline

    RB1958 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    Down on the bayou
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0
    Packer Fan Since:
    1977


    Just to clarify with Goodell's full wording now released, it states pretty clearly that it was conclusively established that:

    2. Payments were made for plays such as interceptions or fumble recoveries. All such payments are against league rules. Payments also were made for plays on which opposing players were injured. In addition, specific players were sometimes targeted. The investigation showed bounties being placed on four quarterbacks of opposing teams – Brett Favre, Cam Newton, Aaron Rodgers, and Kurt Warner. Multiple sources have confirmed that several players pledged funds toward bounties on specific opposing players, with defensive captain Jonathan Vilma offering $10,000 to any player who knocked Brett Favre out of the NFC Championship Game in 2010.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. PackFanatic
    Offline

    PackFanatic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    183
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    +1000 to that comment and I am putting all my money on anyone that plays the Saints this coming season. Betting against them every game. That being said, I had a boatload of FUN in NOLA when I was down there for a conference. Packers played MNF Favre jersy on. The regulars in the bars bought my wife and I all we could consume and absolutley LOVED FAVRE ( back then). I grew to respect the fans and the team in my week down there. Now, I only have respect for the fans. The team not so much now that I find out they had a bounty on Rodgers UGHH! ! !
  21. Lunchboxer
    Offline

    Lunchboxer Guest

    Ratings:
    +76 / 3 / -4
    This has been quite an entertaining off season.

    An Off season like no other.
    • Like Like x 1
  22. Forget Favre
    Offline

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,070
    Ratings:
    +2,285 / 51 / -15
    This response surprises me.
    Then again, we should know your not a Colts homer with the Pack being your second team.

    So, you really think so?
    Did they or did they not have the bounty system in place playing the Colts?
    Care to elaborate on what you mean by 'Fair and square?'
  23. Forget Favre
    Offline

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,070
    Ratings:
    +2,285 / 51 / -15
    What off season?
    Are you really sure it's the off season?
    'Cause you know. We get this much excitment during the reg. season.
  24. Forget Favre
    Offline

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,070
    Ratings:
    +2,285 / 51 / -15
    Saints?
    What Saints?
    Sinners is more like it.
    (Credit to my girlfriend for coming up with that alt. team name.)
  25. Jules
    Offline

    Jules The Colts Fan

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2011
    Messages:
    2,769
    Ratings:
    +754 / 9 / -0
    Did they have a pick 6 bounty on Peyton? Who cares. It is all excuses. The Colts lost that game. The team sucked when they had to deliver and Caldwell sucked.

Share This Page