works great for a book but in reality it doesnt apply. We can start with Vick as an example. Or even Steve Smith. If a teacher, or mcdonalds employee attacked another employee they would be fired.
Johnny Jolly Avoids Jail Time...Could Play in 2011
- Thread starter Rodgers_Forever
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works great for a book but in reality it doesnt apply. We can start with Vick as an example. Or even Steve Smith. If a teacher, or mcdonalds employee attacked another employee they would be fired.
egh, the cops botched the oj case. too bad its not more high profile, because then we might hear more about it.
Worked Ok for me. It was a good book. Wolf said that he only took people who showed they could be responsible to be a team person. Jolly would not fit that identity. His concerns for his Houston buddies and his habits outweigh his desire to help the team, obviously. Company or Team, he strikes out on both counts.
makes me wonder why he traded for Favre then
If I recall (I'd have to get the book out again) Favre was eager to be a Packer at that time. He was apparently willing to do whatever it took. That was the kind of person Wolf said he would hire. He said if a player looked apathetic or wasn't 100 per cent enthusiastic about being on the team, he'd show them the door. He said he only wanted people who "really" wanted to play for the Packers.
(Of course you're also talking about the person who said he'd never play for any other team. He said he'd retire before that happened. Well, we all know how that worked out)
TJV
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Not sure what you're getting at, here. After the incident in 2008, you aren’t saying Jolly is innocent of these charges, are you?
The NFL doesn’t have to rely on the legal system to impose sanctions for off field behavior. For example I don’t think Rothlisberger was ever charged, let alone convicted, and he was suspended by the league.
Like I said if it was a slam dunk charge they wouldnt have given him probation and dismiss the most recent charges. I dont know the details of either arrest but it makes you wonder if the cards the prosecution was holding were not that strong. I understand the reasoning to make deals but probation seems a little light based on the arrests alone.
never said the nfl relies on anything other than their own information. They will consult with their houston contacts I assume when deciding if they will lift the suspension. Him being in "treatment" will help Jollys case.
Ausnadian
Cheesehead
Whenever there is a legal 'Deal' in place, it's usually because there is a bigger fish to fry, in Jolly's case, it could be the person that got him that codeine. My bother-in-law's brother, who is a complete moron, was running drugs. He was caught with about $300,000 worth in his car, he was about to go to trial and then miraculously walked free. He told my BIL that he pointed fingers and walked with a 5 year good behavior bond, where if he even gets a speeding fine he can go to jail. Now, he WAS guilty, but the cops wanted the dealers, not the couriers. (sidenote: since then the idiot has reproduced twice.. he should have been neutered)
Why am I telling you this, because I know for a fact that having charges dropped doesn't mean s**t if you don't know the details as to why.
It makes me laugh how hypocritical some of you can be. Jermichael Finley tweets something and you want him traded for being a disturbance to the team, yet you are happy for Jolly to stick around. GET RID OF HIM, he was not needed to win a title, and he has proved himself to be a moron, let some other team deal with his crap.
I would take a rookie with a great attitude any day before I would give Jolly another go.
Why am I telling you this, because I know for a fact that having charges dropped doesn't mean s**t if you don't know the details as to why.
It makes me laugh how hypocritical some of you can be. Jermichael Finley tweets something and you want him traded for being a disturbance to the team, yet you are happy for Jolly to stick around. GET RID OF HIM, he was not needed to win a title, and he has proved himself to be a moron, let some other team deal with his crap.
I would take a rookie with a great attitude any day before I would give Jolly another go.
PackersRS
Cheesehead
Very good point!
Did you ever give it any thought that the demand of Finley might be a bit higher than Jolly? yeah with that comment its pretty clear you didnt. LOL
If I thought Jolly could command a 1st or something equal I would personally drive him to watever city they traded him to. Also we will likely be low on DEs. Harrel most likely will be gone as will Jenkins. Losing 3 guys at one position is a pretty big hit. Picketts age also leaves me worried about his durability. Cutting Jolly before preseason is over would be foolish.
I want Finley traded because of what he will bring not because of his attitude. I think the offense is actually better without him at least it was last season, I hope they do some changes next season in this aspect.
Ausnadian
Cheesehead
yeah right, because a TE that stretches the secondary even thinner, not allowing much double coverage on any receiver is a bad thing... We should get rid of him ASAP!
in the 5 games with Finley, Greg Jennings averaged 36.6 yards a game. In the 11 games without Finley Greg Jennings averaged 98.36 yards per game.
Ausnadian
Cheesehead
and that is Finley's fault?? or was it Rodgers getting a little excited knowing he has a TE that catches everything? Maybe now with the season we have had, spreading the ball around, he wont be so one dimensional, but if Finley puts up receiver numbers, whats the difference between him getting them or Jones?? I don't care who gets the stats, I want the team to win.
your argument was he stretches the secondary and causes less double coverage on Wrs. Thats why I posted the numbers. If anyone would be double covered it would be our #1 WR. I showed the numbers to show that argument is flawed.
Ausnadian
Cheesehead
No, your numbers show that Greg saw less ball, it doesn't show anything about coverage, it doesn't show anything about Bulaga's early games last year where he was well beaten giving Rodgers less time to throw, it doesn't show anything about the REFs flagging the Pack out of Chicago and killing drives, it doesn't show ANYTHING relevant. Greg's stats ONLY show that he got more of the ball when Finley wasn't there, because there were less targets.
Sorry for getting off topic
Sorry for getting off topic
No, your numbers show that Greg saw less ball, it doesn't show anything about coverage, it doesn't show anything about Bulaga's early games last year where he was well beaten giving Rodgers less time to throw, it doesn't show anything about the REFs flagging the Pack out of Chicago and killing drives, it doesn't show ANYTHING relevant. Greg's stats ONLY show that he got more of the ball when Finley wasn't there, because there were less targets.
Sorry for getting off topic
Bulaga didnt start until week 5...
blaming the refs?
PackersRS
Cheesehead
Ivo, you really think the offense is better without Finley?
I believe in 2010 that the packers offense was better without finley.
Our offense (I wont use the excuse of Rodgers missing time) averaged 235.4 yards passing with Finley, and 273.3 yards passing without him.
I think the Packers should explore trading him after next season based on how the 2011 season goes. Im not keen on paying Finley $40 million either.
PackersRS
Cheesehead
The offense in 09 averaged 28.8 points per game, 4.6 better than in 10.
With Finley in 09.
That being said, stats are not the reason. The guy is a beast, nothing short of it. It was Rodgers' fault, he kept forcing the ball to Finley while in quadruple coverage. It's not like Finley was asking the ball. You know who was asking the ball? Jennings.
Finley is a weapon. One of the best in the game IMHO. It would be a mistake to do anything but retain him long term. The way TT operates, there'll always be money for good, productive players. Finley is not a productive player right now, he needs to stay healthy. But boy he is good.
In case you missed it I said in 2010 the offense was better without Finley. The key being the year, 2010. I didnt say anything about 09.
But since you wanted to bring up the PPG difference I would like to point out that 4.6 difference just possibly miiiiight have something to do with the 9 extra rushing TDs we had in 09.
Do you have a source saying Jennings was asking for the ball or is just your opinion? I heard Finley was but without a solid source I wasnt going to just type it.
Yes Finley is very good, but not necessary for the offense to function at a high level. I struggle to see, at the current time, why you would pay someone top dollar that isnt needed. I would like to see him develop as a compliment to our offense, not a hindrance.
Ausnadian
Cheesehead
No I am not blaming Refs, I really wish you could type in the tone you talk.
I am mearly trying to make a point that many things go into each game, and suggesting that Jennings stats increase after Finley was out proves we have a better offense without him is wrong.
The problem with pretty much all stats is the fact that each stat does not contain all of the relevant data. Lets take the game against the Lions, only 17 pass attempts were made, of which only 12 were caught. Jennings struggled with only 2 catches, Finley 4, Driver 3.
Finley being on the field didn't make Jennings struggle, 17 attempts all night is what effected his stats.
So just looking at Finleys games Vs Jennings totals means little to nothing.
That is my point, without trying to sound rude (I am honestly just trying to discuss here), do you agree with the point I make about stats or not?
I am mearly trying to make a point that many things go into each game, and suggesting that Jennings stats increase after Finley was out proves we have a better offense without him is wrong.
The problem with pretty much all stats is the fact that each stat does not contain all of the relevant data. Lets take the game against the Lions, only 17 pass attempts were made, of which only 12 were caught. Jennings struggled with only 2 catches, Finley 4, Driver 3.
Finley being on the field didn't make Jennings struggle, 17 attempts all night is what effected his stats.
So just looking at Finleys games Vs Jennings totals means little to nothing.
That is my point, without trying to sound rude (I am honestly just trying to discuss here), do you agree with the point I make about stats or not?
I sort of agree that the stats of the lions game doesnt tell the entire tale. But as a whole of 5 games compared to 11 other ones you can get a pretty decent picture the offense improved when Finley was hurt. 40 yards per game increase is a decent amount. He could easily become a compliment to the offense in 2011, as I hope he does.
PackersRS
Cheesehead
On Jennings
Pack's Jennings wants the ball, vents frustration - Action 3 News - Omaha, Nebraska News, Weather, and Sports |
Regarding running the ball, I agree, but then again, simple stats from games with and without Finley don't show the whole picture. They don't count for opponents D, for how Rodgers and the OL performed, the offense historically starting slow, etc... Not only that, but 5 games is a very small sample size.
Finley has been a hinderance once, his rookie season when he complained. Never more. He's liked by all coaches, and he's Rodgers' favorite target, said by he himself
Do I think he's necessary to the offense? The only guy necessary to the offense is Rodgers, let's get this straight. Sure, he needs weapons and protection, but those can be virtually anyone.
But, as I said, I think he's a unique weapon, that can make life really easy for the Packers, as long as he's able to stay healthy.
a 1/3 of the season is a decent sample size for the numbers I think. If your going to say its not fair bc of opponents D then your saying almost nothing in the NFL can be compared.
Arod being nice to Finley? not surprising since it was a little rocky there for awhile.
So do you think the offense improved the last 11 games of the season compared to the first 5?
If you were TT would you listen to trade offers for Finley? I think a 1 and a 2 would be pretty enticing for a player our offense was better without the year they won a SB.
Arod being nice to Finley? not surprising since it was a little rocky there for awhile.
So do you think the offense improved the last 11 games of the season compared to the first 5?
If you were TT would you listen to trade offers for Finley? I think a 1 and a 2 would be pretty enticing for a player our offense was better without the year they won a SB.
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