Green Bay Packers Free Agents thread

[13 Times Champs]

The NFL cap was first introduced for the 1994 season and was initially $34.6 million. Whatever defense you play you need the guys to play.

 

[SpartaChris]

I'm concerned about the depth at DE. Will Ted regret leaving Jenkins go??

Packersnews.com | Green Bay Packers | Insiders Blog » Extra point: Thompson may one day regret letting Jenkins go

Funny- The talking heads were spewing the same crap about Ted when he parted ways with Brent Fart. Look how that turned out..

 

[SpartaChris]

So what does Wolf have to do with the current situation??? Or the Eagles for that matter?? The point is we are periously thin at DL in my opinion. We saw how those big guys go down with injuries last year. The depth on the DL needs to be addressed.

We're no thinner this season than last season. In fact, at times, we were thinner last season than we will be this season. If anything, I would say we're almost back to where we started last season.

Don't forget we just drafted a DE this year, though he was a 7th rounder.

I trust Ted and Dom know more about this team than we do.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Exactly, during last year we lost Pickett, Neal, and Jenkins to injuries. Thank God the Jets cut Green and we picked him up. I reiterate we need more depth on the DL.

 

[Croak]

The NFL cap was first introduced for the 1994 season and was initially $34.6 million. Whatever defense you play you need the guys to play.

Wolf himself said he couldn't work in today's environment. The difference between the defense he had to build was a big difference from Capers. The 4-3 emphasizes rushing ends like Reggie White. The 3-4 needs more run stopping ability from the d-line with some ability to rush. The 3-4 emphasizes aggressive LB play. There is a WORLD of difference between the two and how many men you need to fill the positions of the two. Wolf naturally needed more d lineman than Capers.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Wolf himself said he couldn't work in today's environment. The difference between the defense he had to build was a big difference from Capers. The 4-3 emphasizes rushing ends like Reggie White. The 3-4 needs more run stopping ability from the d-line with some ability to rush. The 3-4 emphasizes aggressive LB play. There is a WORLD of difference between the two and how many men you need to fill the positions of the two. Wolf naturally needed more d lineman than Capers.

I don't disagree you need more defensive linemen in a 4-3. That is the nature of the defense. But you still need 6 guys to play an effective 3-4. With one you need more DL with the other you need more LB's. We have 5 guys in my opinion at this point.

As previously pointed out Wolf did operate under a salary cap so that part of your argument is null and void.

 

[SpartaChris]

Exactly, during last year we lost Pickett, Neal, and Jenkins to injuries. Thank God the Jets cut Green and we picked him up. I reiterate we need more depth on the DL.

So which position on the active 53 would you sacrifice to pick up another DL?

 

[Croak]

I don't disagree you need more defensive linemen in a 4-3. That is the nature of the defense. But you still need 6 guys to play an effective 3-4. With one you need more DL with the other you need more LB's. We have 5 guys in my opinion at this point.

And Wolf did have to operate under a salary cap so that part of your argument is null and void.

The cap wasn't structured the same in the early days. There was a lot more uncapped "flex" money available. A contract could be super loaded with this kind of money and they could get away with it more than they can under today's rules. Also Wolf's whole 96 defensive line was signed before the cap went into effect.

 

[13 Times Champs]

The cap wasn't structured the same in the early days. There was a lot more uncapped "flex" money available. A contract could be super loaded with this kind of money and they could get away with it more than they can under today's rules. Also Wolf's whole 96 defensive line was signed before the cap went into effect.

C'mon man that's just not true. Show me the proof. Bonuses or flex money have always been a part of the cap. Ted's decision on Jenkins and Wolf's decion on Gabe Wilkins had nothing to do with the salary cap.

 

[Croak]

C'mon man that's just not true. Show me the proof. Bonuses or flex money have always been a part of the cap. Ted's decision on Jenkins and Wolf's decion on Gabe Wilkins had nothing to do with the salary cap.

Here is a good article to start with. "For one thing, teams are likely to be more reluctant than before to borrow against their future with signing bonuses that are prorated over the length of a players' contract. Large signing bonuses will further cut into teams' ability to maneuver in later years, so we'll likely see fewer and lower signing bonuses in favor or larger annual salaries.

But even before this Wolf talked about the way things changed in an old interview with the MJS. I tried to clip it but it is now a pay site.

Then there is this quote from this article; "Though teams had a casual approach to it when the cap was originally implemented because it was new and unfamiliar, they now employ several people charged with understanding and manipulating the cap to maximum advantage. The math of the cap is at least as important as any other factor in player decisions these days."

As the cap has evolved so have the rules regarding it.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Here is a good article to start with. "For one thing, teams are likely to be more reluctant than before to borrow against their future with signing bonuses that are prorated over the length of a players' contract. Large signing bonuses will further cut into teams' ability to maneuver in later years, so we'll likely see fewer and lower signing bonuses in favor or larger annual salaries.

But even before this Wolf talked about the way things changed in an old interview with the MJS. I tried to clip it but it is now a pay site.

Then there is this quote from this article; "Though teams had a casual approach to it when the cap was originally implemented because it was new and unfamiliar, they now employ several people charged with understanding and manipulating the cap to maximum advantage. The math of the cap is at least as important as any other factor in player decisions these days."

As the cap has evolved so have the rules regarding it.

And none of that lends credence to your argument. So teams were at first skeptical and then later got more people involved to help them. Certainly things have changed but it isn't like Wolf didn't operate under a salary cap as you first stated. Btw, The Gabe Wilkins decision came during the 1997 season.

 

[Croak]

And none of that lends credence to your argument. So teams were at first skeptical and then later got more people involved to help them. Certainly things have changed but it isn't like Wolf didn't operate under a salary cap as you first stated. Btw, The Gabe Wilkins decision came during the 1997 season.[/QUOTE

I'm trying to make this simple and understandable. My humble apologies if it is difficult. In the early days of the cap, the cap was much more fluid. There was a lot of wiggle room with lots of extra bucks flowing around that skirted cap rules. As the years have gone by the league has become more aware of these loopholes and implemented strategies to make teams abide by more rigid cap rules. It wasn't that teams were "skeptical" early on. It was that they weren't taking the cap as strictly nor as detailed as today. I even remember thinking back in those days "so what's the big deal with a salary cap if teams can throw around all this extra money anyway?" The Cowboys were notorious for it.

And Gabe Wilkins replaced a '96 player.

 

[13 Times Champs]

And none of that lends credence to your argument. So teams were at first skeptical and then later got more people involved to help them. Certainly things have changed but it isn't like Wolf didn't operate under a salary cap as you first stated. Btw, The Gabe Wilkins decision came during the 1997 season.[/QUOTE

I'm trying to make this simple and understandable. My humble apologies if it is difficult. In the early days of the cap, the cap was much more fluid. There was a lot of wiggle room with lots of extra bucks flowing around that skirted cap rules. As the years have gone by the league has become more aware of these loopholes and implemented strategies to make teams abide by more rigid cap rules. It wasn't that teams were "skeptical" early on. It was that they weren't taking the cap as strictly nor as detailed as today. I even remember thinking back in those days "so what's the big deal with a salary cap if teams can throw around all this extra money anyway?" The Cowboys were notorious for it.

And Gabe Wilkins replaced a '96 player.

No need to get testy. I thought we were having a good back and fourth. You keep saying in the early days things were different yet you offer no proof. My comment about Wilkins was that you said the Wolf signed the entire defensive line in 1996...but the decision on Wilkins came during the 1997 season so that makes no sense.

Wolf operated with a cap as you incorrectly said he didn't and so does Ted. Player decisions aren't always about the cap and sometimes mistakes are made. I hope like the article that Ted hasn't made one like Wolf acknowledged he did. Fair enough?

 

[Croak]

There is another way to look at it from the cap perspective which another one of our regular posters pointed out to me months ago. Jenkins wanted a long term contract. As one of the articles posted above noted, the new cap will make short term contracts more affordable for teams - "Another change I think we'll see is that teams will sign free agents to shorter contract lengths. Instead of the 7-year deals that are horribly back-loaded, I think we'll see much more two or three-year contracts. Since teams will hand out fewer and lower signing bonuses, they will not have to keep players on the roster for long periods to amortize the prorated parts of the signing bonuses."

I forget whether it was IVO or RS who pointed this out months ago.

 

[13 Times Champs]

So which position on the active 53 would you sacrifice to pick up another DL?

Don't make it so easy. Jared Bush

 

[Croak]

No need to get testy. I thought we were having a good back and fourth. You keep saying in the early days things were different yet you offer no proof. My comment about Wilkins was that you said the Wolf signed the entire defensive line in 1996...but the decision on Wilkins came during the 1997 season so that makes no sense.

Wolf operated with a cap as you incorrectly said he didn't and so does Ted. Player decisions aren't always about the cap and sometimes mistakes are made. I hope like the article that Ted hasn't made one like Wolf acknowledged he did. Fair enough?

I'm frustrated because I thought it was pretty simple and self evident to anyone who has been familiar with the cap over the years.

Go back and read my post. I didn't say Wolf didn't have a cap. I said he didn't have the *rules* that Thompson has to deal with.

This was a money decision early on. The whole way back in February the Journal Sentinel reported that Jenkins wanted a long term deal and the Packers weren't willing to fork over the money on a long term deal.

 

[ivo610]

Don't make it so easy. Jared Bush

Not sure if we would have won the SB without him. Im a fan of him though.

 

[Croak]

IVO, you and Spartachris summed up this whole Jenkins thing for me in a very succinct manner back on page 13 of this thread. There was another Jenkins thread back around Feb. where one of you guys said the Pack wouldn't be able to afford him as well. Methinks you are prophets.

 

[SpartaChris]

Don't make it so easy. Jared Bush

So you cut our special teams ace and captain for a DL backup?

I dunno man... I know Bush has had his moments, but he also came through a couple times last season, including a pick in the Super Bowl. And he's a beast on Special Teams. Doesn't seem like a good trade off.

 

[SpartaChris]

IVO, you and Spartachris summed up this whole Jenkins thing for me in a very succinct manner back on page 13 of this thread. There was another Jenkins thread back around Feb. where one of you guys said the Pack wouldn't be able to afford him as well. Methinks you are prophets.

You're too kind.

When you look at the group of players who make up the core of this team, the guys who we simply cannot do without, you have to figure everyone else is expendable. There's probably 10 guys on the roster right now that we simply cannot afford to lose. Then there are guys that would suck to lose, but you'll somehow make do. Finally there are guys who are simply replaceable.

Jenkins, an aging, injury riddled veteran, fits into the second category. Sure, we would love to keep him, but he's simply not essential to the success of this team. In fact, we won all 5 games he missed last season when he was injured, proving just how deep our defensive line really is. Factor in his age and the value he was seeking, and it made the decision to let him hit the market really easy.

 

[ivo610]

IVO, you and Spartachris summed up this whole Jenkins thing for me in a very succinct manner back on page 13 of this thread. There was another Jenkins thread back around Feb. where one of you guys said the Pack wouldn't be able to afford him as well. Methinks you are prophets.

I knew his agent wasnt getting a meeting with Ted during the season. They tried, but the packers pretty much wouldnt talk to them. Its been a decision TT and company have been thinking about for almost a year.

Bottom line is they know these players better than anyone. They see them every day. Its the reason Ted didnt flinch during the Favre situation, he knew as did the coaches that he had an All Pro quality QB already on the roster. During the 2007 (08 actually) pro bowl, when the packers coached the NFC, they were talking with staff of the Chargers, and were talking about Peyton Manning ( how great he is) and a packers coach said "yeah, we have someone just as good thats backing up brett."

 

[CarolinaPackerFan]

Don't make it so easy. Jared Bush

Wait... who's Jared Bush?

 

[ivo610]

I figure this is worth mentioning but I dont really take it seriously.

My friend runs some gas stations in Minneapolis area. He saw Pat Williams today and Pat said he was talking to GB.

That sounds about as far from TT as I could imagine. Either my friend is messin with me or Pat was messing with him. If we had an injury and this was November I might be inclined to believe him though.

 

[Croak]

I'd rather see Leber come over from the dark side. But all in all, I've been watching all the available free agents from other teams and I think to myself. There really *is* no one on those lists that the Packers *really* need. We've got a pretty nice roster as is!

 

[13 Times Champs]

Wait... who's Jared Bush?

Wow you got me there. Jarrett vs Jared. Congratulations. :icon_rolleyes: