Anthony Hargrove suspended 8 games

[13 Times Champs]

More on this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/08/vitt-denies-that-he-told-hargrove-to-lie/

 

[longtimefan]

I think at this point anything that is said by coaches can not be trusted...There is admission that they lied to the NFL

 

[longtimefan]

More on this:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/05/08/vitt-denies-that-he-told-hargrove-to-lie/

Didnt the coaches get warned not to do any "pay for performance" pots? And yet kept doing it? So anything Vitt says can't be taken seriously if you ask me..

 

[TJV]

I don't think people are suggesting that Hargrove, Williams, and Vitt are innocent of wrongdoing. Florio's point is that the statement casts doubt on the league's disciplinary process.

If that's true, here's the portion of what Florio wrote (that you quoted in your post) that led me astray:

"Now for what Hargrove’s declaration doesn’t say. At no point in the declaration does Hargrove admit to any knowledge of the existence of a bounty program... Hargrove never says he was told to lie. Instead, he says he was told what to say, without commenting on whether he believed what he was told to say to be the truth...

My point is that Hargrove's knowledge of the program and his being told to lie were clearly inferred by his statement (as you've agreed), otherwise from Hargrove's point of view the statement would have no meaning. (It would make no sense to complain about being told to tell the truth and the entire statement makes no sense unless all three men in the room knew the bounty program existed.) IOW what I've quoted from Florio is meaningless both with regard to what was really going on in that meeting as told by Hargrove and regarding the league's disciplinary process - at least IMO.

As to the rest of your post, of course this was meant to mitigate Hargrove's punishment; I said so in my post. As to the league overstating the evidence from this statement, as I said above they have better evidence anyway so I don't view that as that important.

Of course I'm a Packers fan so I'd like to see Hargrove's suspension lessened. Not only that but I don't believe a single player's suspension should be longer than any coaches or GMs. Those with greater authority should pay a higher price IMO. But the reason for the length of Hargrove's suspension is not only that he participated but when investigators asked him directly about the program, he lied. Has that acusation been levied against any player who got a shorter suspension? Even with mitigation, Hargrove knew he was lying and if he and another player's participation was the same but only one lied, I have no problem with the liar's suspension being longer.

As far as the disciplinary process to some degree IMO all punishments are arbitrary. For example, no two late hits are created equal. But here's the point I think some are missing. As part of the collective bargaining process all the players, as represented by the NFLPA, agreed to the current process. And frankly what I find most objectionable is not that punishments are determined behind closed doors. It is that the appeal available to the players is to the league itself. But that too was agreed upon by the players. It was reported on Mike & Mike this morning that only one team, the Steelers, objected to the appeal process. All others, ironically including the Saints, agreed. And it was something the league was standing firm on. IMO it would be much fairer to have the league determine punishment and allowing appeals to an independent arbitrator.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Didnt the coaches get warned not to do any "pay for performance" pots? And yet kept doing it? So anything Vitt says can't be taken seriously if you ask me..

Yep there's liars and then there are damn liars.

 

[jaybadger82]

...Great points from longtimefan and Jack.

I'm unclear how Goodell could fix the situation for Hargrove after recognizing that he was cut in retaliation for telling the truth about the Saints bounty program. The employment contract is between Hargrove and the Rams, not the NFL.

Player dissatisfaction with the league's disciplinary process is fairly widespread. Doesn't seem like the NFLPA did a good job negotiating this in the new collective bargaining agreement. As I recall, they were more concerned about obtaining a larger share of gross revenues for the players and the league would never concede something, such as a better discipline system, without receiving concessions in return.

Again, given the totality of his circumstances, I think Hargrove found himself in a very difficult position when questioned about this in 2010. The year before, he served a one-year suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy. Upon returning, there were few teams willing to offer a contract. If the Rams cut him, he would probably find it difficult to latch on elsewhere. How was the NFL going to protect his professional future? Where would his next contract come from if it were widely known that he had turned on his former teammates and the coaching staff in New Orleans? Getting "blacklisted" is a very real and legitimate concern amongst professional athletes...

Call me a biased homer (Go Pack!) or a bleeding heart (which I probably am) but I think many of the "he simply should've told the truth" crowd conveniently gloss over the real problems this presented for Hargrove's professional future. The guy was involved in the bounty program and he deserves punishment but, in light of the considerations above, eight games for stonewalling the league seems harsh.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

"Playing dumb" because your boss told you to play dumb. The same boss that can terminate your employment on a whim.

Doesn't take much imagination to see the difficult position Hargrove was in back in 2010.

Here's Seifert's take: http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/41748/hargrove-declaration-wheres-the-beef

I agree with you. If your boss tells you to say something, you say it. In Hargrove's situation, his boss straight out told him, "I make the depth chart". It's not hard to infer what he meant.