That's this year... That whole team is a mess. Their defense has them coming from behind all year, which eliminates the running game. I'm just saying in general the past few years. There's been a few teams that have been able to do both well and these teams have been the most dangerous offenses. They are able to set up both styles of play because their lines can adjust. Ours, not so much. Falcons have obviously changed their O this year and turner is really slowing down. Just watching him run reminds me of a fat man in sand.May want to rethink the Saints
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...efensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true
Pats #1 in passing
# 3 in total yards rushing 1197 yards
Saints #5 in passing
#32 in total yards rushing 508 yards
Packers are #7 in passing
# 22 in total yards rushing 721 yards
Texans #9 in passing
# 8 in total yards 898 yards
FYI...Steelers, Falcons have even less rushing yards than us...And they are suppose to be a great running team
That's this year... That whole team is a mess. Their defense has them coming from behind all year, which eliminates the running game. I'm just saying in general the past few years. There's been a few teams that have been able to do both well and these teams have been the most dangerous offenses. They are able to set up both styles of play because their lines can adjust. Ours, not so much. Falcons have obviously changed their O this year and turner is really slowing down. Just watching him run reminds me of a fat man in sand.
That's this year... .
My bad... I was referring to over all every year. This is still valid because we haven't been good for many years now with this line.I know that is this year as I found the info lol
Your statement implied they are good this year...Cant give them a pass on this year, if you do then your argument isnt valid for NO
Cheesehead625 said: ↑
I hate to keeps saying it, but how about the Patriots, Saints, and Texans. They seem to have lines that are good at both. Granted the pass sets up the run in their systems.
I hope you're not being sarcastic because that is much better than Green Bay's 1558 last year. Which doesn't make sense at all seeing we were up by a lot most of those games and our pass game was grooving. Which means we should have been able to run at will.Excellent point on NO. They rushed for 2,127 in 2011.
I hope you're not being sarcastic because that is much better than Green Bay's 1558 last year. Which doesn't make sense at all seeing we were up by a lot most of those games and our pass game was grooving. Which means we should have been able to run at will.
As slaughter25 mentioned regarding Slocum, IMO it's extremely difficult for us as fans to evaluate how well - or poorly - assistant coaches are doing. Is it the assistant coach? Is it the scheme? Is it personnel, or more likely a combination of all three? In Campen's case the ZBS wasn't his idea so if he wanted to keep his job, he was stuck with it. As I've posted before, I didn’t like the ZBS from the beginning because I think the cut blocks it calls for are dirty tactics. Any system you can’t practice against your own teammates isn’t fit to be inflicted on the league IMO. I believed that as it was practiced in Denver and the Packers adoption of it didn’t change my mind. I think there were two problems with it from almost the beginning in Green Bay. First, the only coach who was schooled in it, Jagodzinski (whose name was brought up by longtimefan as a joke I believe/hope) left after one year. Too bad it wasn’t scrapped then. The second problem with it was IMO the Packers never went “full in” on the cut blocks. Not that I blame the players but for it to work DL have to fear getting cut blocked and without that fear the Packers ended up with a milquetoast version of it. Regarding talent acquisition I don't think Sitton or Bulaga fit into the ZBS mold, which is more evidence IMO that while it's still part of the play book, they've gone away from it as the mainstay of the running scheme.
IMO the biggest reason the Packers aren’t a good run blocking team is because they aspire to be, usually have been since Wolf’s arrival (with the exception of Sherman's tenure), and need to be a great pass blocking team. It’s extremely difficult to put together a good/great pass blocking OL that is also a good/great run blocking line. Bulaga for some unknown reason (at least to me) seems to have regressed this season in both pass- and run-blocking. I'm so happy Newhouse has markedly improved as a pass blocker I forgive him for not being a good run blocker. Sitton hasn't been as consistent as he was last season and Saturday is not good run blocking - he really needs to be replaced next season IMO. Lang has been as consistent as anyone on the OL IMO.
Well that and the fact that we have damn good guards and our right tackle should be right up there too. I know we have a weakness at center, but with fullback help or pulling a guard, we should be able to design better runs to the right. Aaron called out the play calling as well and I'm pretty sure MM would run only to our strengths.How do we know it's the "coach"? Wild guessing.
Campen's been at it for six years and the line's getting worse. There were occasional positive blips when Jo Philbin would step in and get Colledge to fall down in front of someone. Unfortunately - or fortunately for us, Colledge is a Card now and unfortunately Joe is with the Fish. No one knows how Campen qualified for the job. He was never even a high school coach. His most notable achievement was emissarying to The Traitor. Maybe TT thinks he still owes him for that. Who knows. The one thing we know for sure, is this line can't block Paul Ryan.
Last year the consensus was Bulaga was on his way to pro bowl – or close – status, so what’s happened? I don’t think Campen “uncoached” him; IMO Bulaga’s regression is almost entirely on him. Same scheme, same playbook, same OG lining up next to him… OTOH, has Newhouse improved? Looks to me like he has. Wouldn’t a coach have a greater affect on a newcomer as opposed to an established player? And wasn’t Campen “good enough” at his job in 2010?Campen's been at it for six years and the line's getting worse.
I knew the "fire everybody" crowd would emerge again as soon as the Packers didn't go 7-0. Campen was plenty good enough last year....
Here's a shocker: the Packers don't have as much talent on the line as they had last year......!
Is Newhouse better than Clifton? No.
Is Lange an outstanding guard? No. He's adequate.
Saturday isn't as good as Wells.
Sitton is Pro Bowl caliber...
So is Bulaga, but he's having a mediocre year.
The NFL process to make the bad good and the good bad is weighing on the Packers. They don't have enough money to keep all the free agents, and when retirements happen, a player at the same Pro Bowl level is immediately available.
But firing Campen isn't going to make mediocre talent in three positions suddenly become better with another coach. Firing Castillo actually has made the Philly defense worse.
Ted Thompson hates to pay linemen and running backs, thinking they are easily replaced with a cheaper player. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
With some core players nearing free agency, do you sign a high-priced free agent lineman or running back and then possibly lose Clay Matthews, or God forbid, Aaron Rodgers?
YOU CAN'T KEEP ALL THE PLAYERS. YOU CAN ONLY HIT ON GREAT DRAFT PICKS ON OCCASION. FIRING THE COACH ONLY SETS BACK THE ENTIRE PROGRAM.
Amen.
I knew the "fire everybody" crowd would emerge again as soon as the Packers didn't go 7-0. Campen was plenty good enough last year....
Here's a shocker: the Packers don't have as much talent on the line as they had last year......!
Is Newhouse better than Clifton? No.
Is Lange an outstanding guard? No. He's adequate.
Saturday isn't as good as Wells.
Sitton is Pro Bowl caliber...
So is Bulaga, but he's having a mediocre year.
Oh god shut up and stop being such an optimist that you can't tell when something is obviously not working. No one is expecting us to go undefeated every season. As Packer fans we are allowed to criticize glaring weaknesses on our team. "Ted Thompson hates to pay linemen," this is one of the main reasons we don't have lines like the Pats. However, the Pats don't pay large amounts to their linemen either... you know what they have a great O-line coach. They were able to take a rookie RT last year and make him a starter and not miss a beat. It's possible and please stop getting down on fans for criticizing. Nothing will ever be perfect, but a team with this much talent shouldn't be struggling in these positions.I knew the "fire everybody" crowd would emerge again as soon as the Packers didn't go 7-0. Campen was plenty good enough last year....
Here's a shocker: the Packers don't have as much talent on the line as they had last year......!
Is Newhouse better than Clifton? No.
Is Lange an outstanding guard? No. He's adequate.
Saturday isn't as good as Wells.
Sitton is Pro Bowl caliber...
So is Bulaga, but he's having a mediocre year.
The NFL process to make the bad good and the good bad is weighing on the Packers. They don't have enough money to keep all the free agents, and when retirements happen, a player at the same Pro Bowl level is immediately available.
But firing Campen isn't going to make mediocre talent in three positions suddenly become better with another coach. Firing Castillo actually has made the Philly defense worse.
Ted Thompson hates to pay linemen and running backs, thinking they are easily replaced with a cheaper player. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
With some core players nearing free agency, do you sign a high-priced free agent lineman or running back and then possibly lose Clay Matthews, or God forbid, Aaron Rodgers?
YOU CAN'T KEEP ALL THE PLAYERS. YOU CAN ONLY HIT ON GREAT DRAFT PICKS ON OCCASION. FIRING THE COACH ONLY SETS BACK THE ENTIRE PROGRAM.
Amen.
McGinn does do a good job of analyzing what happened in the games and it may surprise some that for a unit ‘routinely getting 1 or 2 stars’ they’re averaging 2.6 stars per game at this point. Of course we don’t need McGinn to know the OL has to get better but if you’re going to rely on McGinn’s ratings you have to include the two 4.5 star ratings and the 3 star rating he gave them against a very good 49ers D.
IMO the Packers have been going away from the ZBS – certainly they aren’t using it exclusively. Has Campen been the one urging they go away from it more and more? (He never played it and has no allegiance to it.) If you think it’s his fault they didn’t scrap it upon Jags’ departure, your bias is showing IMO. Has Campen been urging McCarthy and Clements to run more and to run from more power formations? Has Campen been asking for different players on the OL - and more resources spent on them? How has the switch from Philbin to Clements affected the offense overall and the OL in particular? How have the opposing DC’s adjustments to playing against the Packers affected the play of the OL? I don’t know the answer to these questions and my point is none of you do, either.
Saturday certainly deserves praise for his career but its clear he’s at the end of it. IMO the best part of his game is his accuracy with shotgun snaps and his veteran savvy. But he’s slow and lacks strength which makes it difficult for him to make the reach blocks required in the run game and he’s at times overpowered by bull rushes. When was the last time you saw him get out on a LB? Have you ever seen him get to the second level on a run? Does Campen get credit for Bulaga’s better play last season than this, does Campen deserve any credit for Newhouse’s improvement this year or is he just responsible for poor OL play? Is Campen a good enough OL coach to win a title with?
Finally, does anyone believe Campen is going anywhere in-season?