Packers vs Raiders Game Thread: Sin City Slugfest Edition

AmishMafia

Cheesehead
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
7,298
Reaction score
2,408
Location
PENDING
I live south of Milwaukee, and living down here we've been hearing for 18 months at least on sports talk 'Love is the guy...Love is ready...there will be drop off year one but it'll be fine' the problem is "Love is ready" is a falsehood.
- Well he doesn't have any 1st round WR weapon.
- The Oline isn't protecting him.
- He has an owwie on his thumb.
- His WRs dropped a couple of passes
- Aaron Jones has been out

Look, Love beat out a First Ballot HOFer, who won back to back MVPs not too long ago. Love is one of the best to have ever played the game. The problem is not Love.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,180
Reaction score
7,965
Location
Madison, WI
I live south of Milwaukee, and living down here we've been hearing for 18 months at least on sports talk 'Love is the guy...Love is ready...there will be drop off year one but it'll be fine' the problem is "Love is ready" is a falsehood.
Those people that gave up on Love BEFORE this season and those that have given up on him now, should do us all a favor and either stop watching football altogether or sit down and **** for awhile.

Now I am not saying that Love is going to be a FHOF QB, there are a lot of variables that go along with that and he is still developing. However, it is FAR too early to conclude anything besides "He is in his first year of starting and has some solid moments and some not so solid ones." People also need to recognize 3 other things.

First, he is working with a beat up OL, that isn't playing all that well.

Second, not having Aaron Jones would hurt most offenses.

Third, Love has a receiving corp. that is still in diapers.

But yeah, "the sky is falling people" should turn their TV's off for the season, because you aren't suddenly going to see a Super Bowl QB and offense playing anytime soon.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
5,684
I live south of Milwaukee, and living down here we've been hearing for 18 months at least on sports talk 'Love is the guy...Love is ready...there will be drop off year one but it'll be fine' the problem is "Love is ready" is a falsehood.
I think in a narrow tunnel view that the sentiment is justified. However my eye test can’t really put the blame squarely on Jordan. There’s several different position groups not helping our QB’s cause.

To be fair though there is some truth to it. The part I see Love’s fault is he’s continually coming up 1-2 yards short on quite a few long throws (call it 18” short of ideal vertical. On missed throws over 25 yards he’s either spot on.. or short. Very rarely does he overthrow a receiver, but it has happened on select occasions (that longer Musgrave miss a few weeks back etc)
Shannon Sharp? I think it was mentioned this after I said it so I know I’m not crazy here. If he puts 2 more yards on the ball it’s either a Big time play or a very slight miss, but eliminates a Defender making a play on the ball. We’ve seen it with Doubs, Musgrave and Watson just in the last few weeks.

I’m not saying this to be critical in a derogatory sense. I want him to succeed. I’m not a QB Coach, but on several throws his feet are not set and I’ve seen JT Sullivan allude to this in his weekly film study. He had this issue last year and preseason were his footwork was lacking, not terrible but in need of some focus according to him and it verifies what I’ve seen with the novice naked eye test.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
5,684
I
- Well he doesn't have any 1st round WR weapon.
- The Oline isn't protecting him.
- He has an owwie on his thumb.
- His WRs dropped a couple of passes
- Aaron Jones has been out

Look, Love beat out a First Ballot HOFer, who won back to back MVPs not too long ago. Love is one of the best to have ever played the game. The problem is not Love.
I think in general I agree. However there are a few aspects where Love could work on that would help. Ball placement on long throws being one.

I also don’t like some of the routes these guys are running. They don’t get separation and as the ball hits the Receiver they are getting mauled for a contested catch. That speaks to either the ball is there .25 seconds late? Or the WR isn’t making distinct cuts and getting that .5 sec separation. It’s like the routes run are rounded or predictable for an average Defense.

What’s strange is Love will make a tougher throw, then miss a medium grade pass, which for many young QB’s is reversed. That’s fixable imo because if he’s making high level throws he can absolutely get more precise or consistent on the others. Nobody expects perfect here. But 2-3 throws a game is another pair of 1st Downs, field position or even points. Not to mention the 2-3 minutes of gained time of possession.

In that Watson throw for the last INT that ball placement needs to be where #9 should be extending upward, not slowing down and coming back 3 yards to the ball. Those type missed opportunities are on Jordan and some inexperience there imo.
 
Last edited:

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,180
Reaction score
7,965
Location
Madison, WI
I also don’t like some of the routes these guys are running. They don’t get separation and as the ball hits the Receiver they are getting mauled for a contested catch. That speaks to either the ball is there .25 seconds late? Or the WR isn’t making distinct cuts and getting that .5 sec separation. It’s like the routes run are rounded or predictable for an average Defense.
This seems to have been an issue for years for most of the Packer receivers. Coaching? Talent? Scheme?

I'm probably just looking at this through green and gold tinted glasses, but even when Rodgers was the QB, rarely do Packer receivers seem to be as wide open as our opponents receivers. Heck, if I am an opposing DC, I am dialing up a ton of passes to my TE's and any WR left with a 10 yard cushion at the LOS.

Packers need to start using more rub routes. Refs seem to be ignoring "illegal picks" by receivers, so take advantage of it, other teams are.
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

Cheesehead
Joined
Apr 30, 2016
Messages
1,251
Reaction score
219
This seems to have been an issue for years for most of the Packer receivers. Coaching? Talent? Scheme?

I'm probably just looking at this through green and gold tinted glasses, but even when Rodgers was the QB, rarely do Packer receivers seem to be as wide open as our opponents receivers. Heck, if I am an opposing DC, I am dialing up a ton of passes to my TE's and any WR left with a 10 yard cushion at the LOS.

Packers need to start using more rub routes. Refs seem to be ignoring "illegal picks" by receivers, so take advantage of it, other teams are.
The thing is there was about an 18 month window with Rodgers where he was CREATING windows
 

Magooch

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 15, 2021
Messages
794
Reaction score
759
This is what I've kind of been getting at for a minute now. Mentioned it elsewhere with Stroud, or Purdy, or so on...

I watched Purdy absolutely light up a Dallas defense that had been one of the best in the league. Now of course he has a much more experienced/established supporting cast around him and I acknowledge that. But that's not exactly the point either. When you look at the kind of throws Purdy is making...I'm not trying to downgrade him but often it feels like they are simply much easier throws.

So on the other hand with Love it looks like he is often forcing throws into tight coverage or making risky passes...and in a lot of cases it feels like that's simply what he HAS to do. Now I'm not saying that's the case on every throw as he has not been particularly accurate to begin with, but for the most part it feels like he is very rarely given "easy" throws to make. I watched that SF-Dallas game and on just about every passing situation it felt like SF had multiple guys with miles of space to work with and Purdy could pretty much take his pick and target whoever he wanted cuz they were probably open with room to run. You watch our passing game try and develop and with the exception of random blown coverages where one of our guys gets behind the secondary for a huge play...most the time it's feeling like our receivers are getting absolutely NO separation whatsoever and there's often just nobody open. And our OL has of course been banged up so it's asking a lot of them to pass protect for 10 seconds until someone finally breaks open. So then it's either wait for someone to get open and hope the pressure doesn't arrive or make a throw to a mostly-covered WR and hope that they can make a play on it. And that works okay sometimes if you've got Davante Adams or whoever catching the ball, but that's not the case for us.

Now again that's not to say that there's NEVER anyone open or that Love always makes the right decision because that's just not the case. He misses open guys or forces throws where he shouldn't. That happens. But a lot of the time it feels like there's just nothing available either and that's tough. I don't know if it's that our young WRs are just not as good as we thought, if our playcalling/scheme is just not allowing them to get open consistently enough, or maybe something in the middle.
I don't know for sure.
My gut says though if you swapped coaching staffs between SF and GB that Shanahan and Co would have MUCH more success with GB's roster than LaFleur and co would have with SF. Just a hunch, though.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
5,684
That said the play calling is speculative. Both considering down and distance, timeouts and clock time. We’re back to trying 35 yard passes with :55 sec left, when we have 2 to tries to get 10 yards and an entire field and entire playbook to work with. Move the chains and quit getting fancy. The only reason you make that throw is if #9 is basically wide open and you have time to step into the throw properly. Otherwise go get the first down or die trying. Live to see another play and don’t leave “attempts” on the field. It wasn’t 4th down or :5 sec left and that for me is the only acceptable excuse to throwing tight coverage on the run. I’d rather Love got 5 yards there and safely hit the chalk.
4th n 5 at the LV30 with :50 sec the entire playbook is available.

If Love managed to scramble for 7+ were in fine shape.
4th n 1
4th n 3
Live to see another day into their Redzone with 20-30 sec left. Don’t ever ever underthrow it better to miss long. It’s like overthrowing a Hail Mary out of bounds. Not too intelligent.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
5,684
This seems to have been an issue for years for most of the Packer receivers. Coaching? Talent? Scheme?

I'm probably just looking at this through green and gold tinted glasses, but even when Rodgers was the QB, rarely do Packer receivers seem to be as wide open as our opponents receivers. Heck, if I am an opposing DC, I am dialing up a ton of passes to my TE's and any WR left with a 10 yard cushion at the LOS.

Packers need to start using more rub routes. Refs seem to be ignoring "illegal picks" by receivers, so take advantage of it, other teams are.
It’s a game that Aaron Jones could’ve helped in the short pass game. Obvious to me they hate Dillon in the Receiving game. He’s on pace to have little to no involvement in the passing game. Yet he has the 2nd most career targets on this team AND by far the highest catch rate
Dillon
67/86 8.4per.. 78% catch rate
Doubs
63/104 10.4per.. 61% catch rate
Watson
40/77 15.8per 60% catch rate

Dillon was targeted 1 time and had a total of 6 passing targets through 5 contests. I find that odd when he’s one of our most experienced players in the passing game
 
Last edited:

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,180
Reaction score
7,965
Location
Madison, WI
Dillon was targeted 1 time and had a total of 6 passing targets through 5 contests. I find that odd when he’s one of our most experienced players in the passing game
Agree

Really not sure why MLF was putting Patrick Taylor in there during passing situations, Dillon has proven to be a capable receiver. Not only has Dillon only had 6 targets all year, 3 of those were in the Bears game, so he has been targeted only 3 times in the last 4 games!

In 2021 and 2022, Dillon had a total of 80 targets! 62 catches, 519 yards, 25 first downs and 2 TD's. WTF is MLF doing not getting him the ball outside? He is a beast in the open field and has decent hands. I could maybe understand if Aaron Jones was playing, but he isn't, he's played the equivalent of maybe 1 game (48 snaps, with 14 carries and 3 receptions).

Hate to keep saying it, but this is Patrick Taylor's 4th season and he is not proving himself to be an NFL RB. MLF needs to got to plan C and give another back some playing time.
 

longtimefan

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
25,362
Reaction score
4,087
Location
Milwaukee
Agree

Really not sure why MLF was putting Patrick Taylor in there during passing situations, Dillon has proven to be a capable receiver. Not only has Dillon only had 6 targets all year, 3 of those were in the Bears game, so he has been targeted only 3 times in the last 4 games!

In 2021 and 2022, Dillon had a total of 80 targets! 62 catches, 519 yards, 25 first downs and 2 TD's. WTF is MLF doing not getting him the ball outside? He is a beast in the open field and has decent hands. I could maybe understand if Aaron Jones was playing, but he isn't, he's played the equivalent of maybe 1 game (48 snaps, with 14 carries and 3 receptions).

Hate to keep saying it, but this is Patrick Taylor's 4th season and he is not proving himself to be an NFL RB. MLF needs to got to plan C and give another back some playing time.
Thought Taylor was released
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
5,684
Agree

Really not sure why MLF was putting Patrick Taylor in there during passing situations, Dillon has proven to be a capable receiver. Not only has Dillon only had 6 targets all year, 3 of those were in the Bears game, so he has been targeted only 3 times in the last 4 games!

In 2021 and 2022, Dillon had a total of 80 targets! 62 catches, 519 yards, 25 first downs and 2 TD's. WTF is MLF doing not getting him the ball outside? He is a beast in the open field and has decent hands. I could maybe understand if Aaron Jones was playing, but he isn't, he's played the equivalent of maybe 1 game (48 snaps, with 14 carries and 3 receptions).

Hate to keep saying it, but this is Patrick Taylor's 4th season and he is not proving himself to be an NFL RB. MLF needs to got to plan C and give another back some playing time.
Sure. I was surprised we didn’t use
E Wilson some. This was the perfect opportunity to see what you’ve got. He doesn’t need 30 carries but at least 10-15. Then that opens Dillon to be used on a several short passes without being totally winded and having to run into a pile of bodies.

Dillon actually did pretty good. He fought for every dang foot. But lighten his load and mix in 4-5 targets in space and let him rumble. He’s really good at those swing passes as he’s already full steam. The only time I’m running him in the middle is if it’s short yardage + a few times to keep a D honest. The key to AJ is he needs a sliver of a hole with a 2 yard head start where he can put his shoulder down and greet a 230 LB with steam. Don’t run him into a 295lb iDL at LOS so regular.
Attn: Matt!
We’re no longer a top 5 Run blocking unit here we’ve got our 2 best OL out.
Love,
OldSchool
 
Last edited:

PackerDNA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
6,428
Reaction score
1,499
My gut says though if you swapped coaching staffs between SF and GB that Shanahan and Co would have MUCH more success with GB's roster than LaFleur and co would have with SF. Just a hunch, though.
This. MLF is in his fifth year, and I don't get any feeling that he's the guy in any aspect.
 

PackerDNA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
6,428
Reaction score
1,499
Old School points out something that I had noticed and considered to be a big problem-footwork. As great as he was, I remember Rodgers talking about working on his footwork even in recent years.
 

PackerDNA

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 8, 2014
Messages
6,428
Reaction score
1,499
Great points by all. I think eventually Love is going to be just fine. There are a lot of problems around him right now, and the problems with him specifically are all fixable with coaching and experience.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
14,292
Reaction score
5,684
Great points by all. I think eventually Love is going to be just fine. There are a lot of problems around him right now, and the problems with him specifically are all fixable with coaching and experience.
Amen.
Truthfully had Jordan inherited a veteran team like Rodgers did in 2008? we’re probably more realistically 3-2 with a little closer loss to Detroit (23-31) Then the conversation changes some into that 10 wins area. Right now we’re so dysfunctional on Offense that I think the original 7 Wins area is very realistic.

Something occurred in my brain while reading these posts and revisiting the last 5 games. My prediction is we will know when our Offense has gotten off this plateau when we score 13 (or more) points in the first half OR attain 2-3 consecutive scoring drives such as:
FG-TD-FG-punt
or
Punt-TD-TD-etc.


Right now we can’t get back to back FG’s!
 
Last edited:

KRSmith

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 9, 2023
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
I have to wonder about this team. They seem so unprepared each week since week 2. Lucky come back against the saints otherwise bad football since the 4th quarter of the falcons game. The defense is terrible. Barry seems like he is being kept around to insure the packers get a higher draft pick. Soft defense for sure. Offense seems to have no clue what they are doing out there. Love is so inaccurate it is frustrating. Now I am starting to wonder if he needs glasses on top of being inaccurate. I thought the team would be competitive this year not look this lousy. Makes me wonder about LeFluer now. Is he the right guy for the job? He did stick with Barry which was stupid and now the offense is clueless. They use timeouts at dumb times. He has been the head coach long enough to know better but it is like he is a rookie along with the young team. Not happy at all!!
 

milani

Cheesehead
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
4,187
Reaction score
1,506
I have to wonder about this team. They seem so unprepared each week since week 2. Lucky come back against the saints otherwise bad football since the 4th quarter of the falcons game. The defense is terrible. Barry seems like he is being kept around to insure the packers get a higher draft pick. Soft defense for sure. Offense seems to have no clue what they are doing out there. Love is so inaccurate it is frustrating. Now I am starting to wonder if he needs glasses on top of being inaccurate. I thought the team would be competitive this year not look this lousy. Makes me wonder about LeFluer now. Is he the right guy for the job? He did stick with Barry which was stupid and now the offense is clueless. They use timeouts at dumb times. He has been the head coach long enough to know better but it is like he is a rookie along with the young team. Not happy at all!!
The defense is not that bad. Not that good. But not that bad. Before the season we knew they would have to carry this team. But we also knew the defense would have to play too much defense. The offense just does not have much in the way of gamers. The one we do have has been absent most of the way so far. I am sure MLF took this job thinking he had a loaded team for 5 years. Do not think he thought he would have to start coaching suddenly. He has to learn how to manage and develop young players. Some educators make great college profs. But put them in front of a 2nd grade classroom and they are dumbfounded.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,180
Reaction score
7,965
Location
Madison, WI
I'm a bit surprised that so many people are down on the Packers. I have to ask them, "What did you realistically expect?" The Packers were an 8-9 team last season, having to string together 4 wins in the last 5 games to even do that. That was a team with a FHOF QB.

So REALLY, did you expect this team to be better than 2-3? Did you expect Jordan Love to look like the 8th coming of a Packer HOF QB instantly? Expect that a rookie TE, 2nd year and rookie WR's would have great chemistry with Love, as well as play like vets?

Then you lose your LT, LG and top 10 RB to injury, as well as your ILB and #1 CB and lose a few games.

Lower your expectations for this season and you might actually enjoy it.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
5,364
Reaction score
1,273
I expect them to do better than what they have been doing. Still think it's more play calling than route running as a problem. And squeaking out 1st downs early in the game with the run game does not mean we are running the ball well imho. I don't think we can run well unless we can start passing the ball 10 to 15 yards downfield.
 

SudsMcBucky

Cheesehead
Joined
May 17, 2022
Messages
185
Reaction score
146
Location
Buford, GA
I'm a bit surprised that so many people are down on the Packers. I have to ask them, "What did you realistically expect?" The Packers were an 8-9 team last season, having to string together 4 wins in the last 5 games to even do that. That was a team with a FHOF QB.

So REALLY, did you expect this team to be better than 2-3? Did you expect Jordan Love to look like the 8th coming of a Packer HOF QB instantly? Expect that a rookie TE, 2nd year and rookie WR's would have great chemistry with Love, as well as play like vets?

Then you lose your LT, LG and top 10 RB to injury, as well as your ILB and #1 CB and lose a few games.

Lower your expectations for this season and you might actually enjoy it.
As bad as a schedule as we've played so far, yes, 3-2 or even 4-1 were NOT outlandish. Yeah, I understand we're dealing with a LOT of injuries to key players, but a hot start even with this young team was not something unreasonable.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
32,180
Reaction score
7,965
Location
Madison, WI
a hot start even with this young team was not something unreasonable.
Nor is 2-3, for this particular team, IMO.

I'm not trying to make excuses for the coaching staff or the players, but I think Packer fans have gotten a bit spoiled in the last 30 years, expecting every team to be Super Bowl contenders. This is the youngest and least experience offense that I can ever remember in Green Bay. The Defense is another story and I still think we are a quality DC short in that department.

Maybe beating the Bears at Chicago to open the season set some people up for too high of expectations? However, as we have now seen, the Bears Still Suck and the Packers other 3 opponents not named the Lions, aren't that good either.

My old Buddy Aaron Rodgers sent out a message to Green Bay Fans after the Raider loss, it was "R E L A X". In this case, I agree with Aaron and think the 2024 season and beyond is looking bright for this team.
 

Staff online

Members online

Latest posts

Top