Packers OL Types

[Thirteen Below]

I don't think it could have been all that often else defenses would have been ready for it and it wouldn't have been all that successful.

Welll, back in those years, other teams were in a "pick your poison" position. When you had Paul Hornung and Jim Taylor in the backfield, and the "power sweep" a significant threat on every 3rd and short, how much can the other team afford to play off the line of scrimmage and defend the short pass?

 

[Poppa San]

defend the short pass

I thought we were discussing a "going over the top" pass on third and short?

 

[Dantés]

4.55 short shuttle and 7.31 three cone for Graham Barton today!

Packer all day long.

 

[Thirteen Below]

4.55 short shuttle and 7.31 three cone for Graham Barton today!

Packer all day long.

I'm really coming around more and more to the idea of a 1st round OL. For a long time, I was thinking that as good as our offense was with the O line we already have, it was not as immediate a need as some of the defensive positions.

But now I'm starting to think more like, if the offense was that good with an O line that was "good enough", how much more dominant could it be with one or two more top-level players?

 

[Thirteen Below]

I thought we were discussing a "going over the top" pass on third and short?

Thanks, you're right. Totally misread that.

 

[DoURant]

4.55 short shuttle and 7.31 three cone for Graham Barton today!

Packer all day long.

Hopefully he can make it to 25

 

[PikeBadger]

We need to put out an amber alert on Cooper Beebe. He's starting to get the Willie Beavers treatment.

 

[Dantés]

We need to put out an amber alert on Cooper Beebe. He's starting to get the Willie Beavers treatment.

He's a good prospect, but he isn't really the Packers' type of player. He's a little on the shorter side and has really short arms. He's also heavier than the type of OL they typically draft. More to the point he was a guard for KSU. The Packers almost never draft guards. They take centers and otherwise they draft tackles and convert some of them inside.

None of this is to say that he isn't a good prospect or that it's impossible that he would be selected. They do make exceptions to their thresholds on occasion. But he would be an outlier, which is why I think most Packer fans who are tied into the draft aren't really discussing him.

 

[edensmage]

He's a good prospect, but he isn't really the Packers' type of player.

Nega-tory ghostrider. I thought the same thing too until I did some homework. He played RT his Soph year and LT his Jr year. This absolutely qualifies him as a Packers OL-man. However, I would agree his shorter arms probably keep him as interior, but he'd be the type that could possibly play T in a pinch. Bulaga has 32" arms...so 31.5 isn't going to be that different. He is on the heavier side but they took Sean Rhyan who is 322 - same exact weight just a few years ago.
I'm fully expecting him to be be a strong possibility in the 3rd...if he makes it that far.

 

[Dantés]

Nega-tory ghostrider. I thought the same thing too until I did some homework. He played RT his Soph year and LT his Jr year. This absolutely qualifies him as a Packers OL-man. However, I would agree his shorter arms probably keep him as interior, but he'd be the type that could possibly play T in a pinch. Bulaga has 32" arms...so 31.5 isn't going to be that different. He is on the heavier side but they took Sean Rhyan who is 322 - same exact weight just a few years ago.
I'm fully expecting him to be be a strong possibility in the 3rd...if he makes it that far.

He would be the heaviest OL they've drafted since Gutekunst took over as scouting director, the only one with sub 32" arms, only the second one to be under 6'4".

They may love him and they may draft him and I'm not arguing that they shouldn't, but he is not their type on the OL given their draft tendencies.

By the way, Bulaga's arm length was 33.25".

 

[edensmage]

By the way, Bulaga's arm length was 33.25"

Ahh crap. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought he had 32" arms. Very well then...I concur with your assessment and shall mark him accordingly.

One other question - since you're here - why is Blake Fisher on at 6-6? Is it because he's exactly 6060?

Also, I think a few additional names need to be added to the list. I know you went down and did an awesome job parsing through data (which I very much appreciate as an engineer), however, it appears some details were missed based on previous year player positions.

A few examples:
Brandon Coleman meets the criteria.

Played RT (Fr) and allowed no sacks in 115 snaps, No Sacks in 479 snaps at LG, 885 snaps 3 sacks at LT, No sacks in 720 snaps at LG

Isaiah Adams

~24 yrs old. Played both tackle and guard positions

Possibly off your board for age - going to double check...

Olumuyiwa Fashanu
Off your board because he'll be gone? Otherwise if Fisher is on he should be on at 6060.

Same with Walter Rouse - 6060 and 4 straight years at LT.

 

[Dantés]

Ahh crap. I stand corrected. For some reason I thought he had 32" arms. Very well then...I concur with your assessment and shall mark him accordingly.

One other question - since you're here - why is Blake Fisher on at 6-6? Is it because he's exactly 6060?

Also, I think a few additional names need to be added to the list. I know you went down and did an awesome job parsing through data (which I very much appreciate as an engineer), however, it appears some details were missed based on previous year player positions.

A few examples:
Brandon Coleman meets the criteria.

Played RT (Fr) and allowed no sacks in 115 snaps, No Sacks in 479 snaps at LG, 885 snaps 3 sacks at LT, No sacks in 720 snaps at LG

Isaiah Adams

~24 yrs old. Played both tackle and guard positions

Possibly off your board for age - going to double check...

Olumuyiwa Fashanu
Off your board because he'll be gone? Otherwise if Fisher is on he should be on at 6060.

Same with Walter Rouse - 6060 and 4 straight years at LT.

Blake Fisher is listed most places at 6'6", but he's actually 6056.

I don't know why/how I missed Brandon Coleman originally, but he's totally a Packer. I didn't realize that Adams played tackle.

Fashanu didn't get on the list for height (he's a true 6'6"). Rouse misses on agilities.

Just to be clear, I am not at all against drafting someone like Fashanu. I just wanted to make a list of the guys who fit their past tendencies.

 

[edensmage]

Just to be clear, I am not at all against drafting someone like Fashanu. I just wanted to make a list of the guys who fit their past tendencies.

Absolutely. I'm 100% with you here. I just wanted to double check a few things you had vs. what I had to make sure I had a comprehensive understanding of how you were evaluating it. Really appreciate you doing this.

So after making a few modifications with your input...here are my top projected picks that are not normally discussed (i.e. Barton) (i.e. mid to late round guys)

Jalen Sundell	North Dakota State	Definite Packer. Gave up a total of 1 sack in 4 years playing LT (Fr/Sr+), C (So, Jr, Sr)
LaDarius Henderson	Michigan (Via. AZ State)	Played LT, RG/RT, LG, LG (Sr), LT (Sr+)
Brandon Coleman	TCU	Deets already provided
Dominick Puni	Kansas	Played both tackle and guard positions. Also showed out well at senior bowl which Packers love.

These are based on a combination of production, size, and aforementioned stats.
I'm willing to bet one of these fellas will be on our squad in the next 30 days.

 

[edensmage]

Blake Fisher is listed most places at 6'6", but he's actually 6056.

Damn, this makes me question the validity of the excel sheet I have. It showed a true 6060. But just double checked and you are correct.

 

[edensmage]

Inspired by this thread, I've started a similar analysis of Safeties/CBs. However, I don't seem to have sufficient authority (help moderators??) to start a new thread so I can post some of the data here. I'll work on further analysis in the coming days but figured I can drop it so you fine folks can draw some of your own conclusions.

I've included Mostly Gute-era data. I did go back one year further (2017) since we had two CB's/S in 2017 - I can do this later. I also then included some of the premier safeties (currently focused on S instead of CB) as a comparison/baseline.

Very tired..will continue more tomorrow. Please get me permissions to create a new thread...

Team

Year

Rd

Pk

Player

All Pro

ProBowl

School

Pos.

Hght

Wght

Bench

Off. 40

10-Yd Split

Shuttle

3-cone

Vert

Broad

Hand

Arm

RAS

Packers

2023

7

242

Anthony Johnson Jr

Iowa St

S

5115​

205​

12​

4.54​

1.53​

4.31​

7.07​

37.5​

1005​

8.75​

31.25​

8.12​

Packers

2019

1

21

Darnell Savage Jr

Maryland

S

5106​

198​

11​

4.36​

1.56​

4.14​

7.03​

39.5​

1006​

9.13​

31.00​

8.37​

Packers

2017

2

61

Josh Jones

North Carolina St

S

6013​

220​

20​

4.41​

1.58​

4.40​

7.05​

37.5​

1100​

9.38​

32.00​

9.28​

Packers

2005

2

Nick Collins

Bethune-Cookman

S

5111​

206​

11​

4.49​

1.64​

4.16​

6.94​

40.0​

910​

7.04​

Buccaneers

2020

2

45

Antoine Winfield Jr

1

1

Minnesota

S

5091​

203​

4.45​

1.58​

36.0​

1004​

9.50​

30.13​

7.81​

Bengals

2018

2

54

Jessie Bates III

2

1

Wake Forest

S

6011​

200​

12​

4.50​

1.58​

4.26​

6.78​

35.5​

909​

9.75​

31.63​

7.20​

Miami

2021

2

36

Jevon Holland

0

0

Oregon

S

6005​

207​

19​

4.47​

1.55​

4.16​

35.5​

1006​

9.13​

61.50​

9.52​

Miami

2018

1

11

Minkah Fitzpatrick

3

4

Alabama

S

6001​

204​

16​

4.46​

1.52​

33.0​

1001​

9.38​

31.25​

8.49​

Ravens

2022

1

14

Kyle Hamilton

1

1

Notre Dame

S

6041​

220​

4.59​

1.57​

4.32​

6.90​

38.0​

1011​

9.13​

33.00​

9.37​

Broncos

2016

3

98

Justin Simmons

4

2

Boston College

S

6023​

202​

16​

4.61​

1.60​

3.85​

6.58​

40.0​

1006​

9.63​

32.63​

9.38​

Chargers

2018

1

17

Derwin James

3

3

Florida State

S

6016​

215​

21​

4.47​

1.55​

4.34​

7.34​

40.0​

1100​

9.50​

33.00​

9.34​

Packers

2013

5

159

Micah Hyde

2

1

Iowa

S/CB

5116​

197​

12​

4.56​

1.65​

4.20​

6.78​

33.0​

1001​

9.38​

31.50​

4.73​

Eagles

2013

7

218

Jordan Poyer

1

1

Oregon State

S/CB

5117​

191​

8​

4.54​

1.51​

4.18​

6.87​

30.5​

910​

9.75​

31.63​

5.32​

Minnesota

2012

1

29

Harrison Smith

2

6

Notre Dame

S

6017​

213​

19​

4.57​

1.56​

4.12​

6.63​

34.0​

1002​

10.25​

32.63​

9.09​

2024

Calen Bullock

USC

S

6020​

188​

8​

4.48​

1.51​

—

33.0​

1000​

9.00​

32.50​

6.37​

2024

Dadrion Taylor-Demerson

Texas Tech

S

5103​

197​

—

4.41​

1.54​

4.39​

7.00​

38.0​

1003​

9.63​

30.88​

8.10​

2024

Tyler Nubin

Minnesota

S

6012​

205​

10​

4.59​

1.65​

4.51​

7.20​

21.5​

1000​

9.00​

32.00​

3.73​

2024

Kamren Kinchens

Miami

S

5112​

203​

13​

4.65​

1.59​

1.63​

—

35.0​

902​

9.75​

31.25​

2.43​

2024

Cole Bishop

Utah

S

6020​

206​

—

4.45​

1.52​

—

39.0​

1004​

9.50​

29.75​

9.88​

2024

Malik Mustapha

Wake Forest

S

5101​

209​

22​

4.52​

1.58​

—

41.5​

1006​

9.00​

30.13​

9.38​

2024

Jaden Hicks

Washington State

S

6017​

211​

16​

4.50​

1.58​

4.37​

6.88​

37.5​

1002​

9.38​

31.50​

8.96​

2024

Dominique Hampton

Washington

S

6023​

215​

20​

4.51​

1.55​

4.18​

6.83​

39.0​

1002​

10.00​

33.25​

9.46​

2024

Kitan Oladapo

Oregon State

S

6020​

216​

15​

4.58​

1.59​

—

36.0​

909​

9.25​

32.38​

8.18​

 

[edensmage]

@Dantés
Did you notice that despite Mims, Guyton, and Zinter not meeting the criteria, they were all in for Top 30 visits? How interesting would it be if they go with Mims after all of these years...
other than his criteria meeting their statistical approach, he would definitely be the Packer type. We can afford to take an inexperienced, high-physical-traits guy and groom him. Not many have that luxury.

I also think that says we'll have to be cautious of how strictly we apply those these stats!

 

[tynimiller]

@Dantés
Did you notice that despite Mims, Guyton, and Zinter not meeting the criteria, they were all in for Top 30 visits? How interesting would it be if they go with Mims after all of these years...
other than his criteria meeting their statistical approach, he would definitely be the Packer type. We can afford to take an inexperienced, high-physical-traits guy and groom him. Not many have that luxury.

I also think that says we'll have to be cautious of how strictly we apply those these stats!

How does Zin not meet the criteria? Age maybe, but he isn't that crazy old....his physical measurements are better than many tackles even. Less than 6'6', less than 320lbs, arms 33.5 hands touch small at 9.375 but not crazy.

Had he not had the leg break, I fully expect him to be a 7.5 RAS or better for sure.

 

[Dantés]

How does Zin not meet the criteria? Age maybe, but he isn't that crazy old....his physical measurements are better than many tackles even. Less than 6'6', less than 320lbs, arms 33.5 hands touch small at 9.375 but not crazy.

Had he not had the leg break, I fully expect him to be a 7.5 RAS or better for sure.

He would be off brand for the Packers in that he is a college guard. He’s only over been a RG to my knowledge. Since 2012, when Gutekunst took over as the scouting director, the Packers have only drafted one guy who was exclusively a college guard, and it was in the 6th round.

 

[tynimiller]

He would be off brand for the Packers in that he is a college guard. He’s only over been a RG to my knowledge. Since 2012, when Gutekunst took over as the scouting director, the Packers have only drafted one guy who was exclusively a college guard, and it was in the 6th round.

Okay true, yea he's been a pure RG and that is a rare thing for Gute to do. I concur there, but I do think if Gute deviates from that at all it would be this year with Runyan leaving and Rhyan unable to win the battle for that position and literally had to platoon style it. I'd bet it only happens though if he doesn't draft a swing tackle or an OT he sees shifting in.

 

[Dantés]

Okay true, yea he's been a pure RG and that is a rare thing for Gute to do. I concur there, but I do think if Gute deviates from that at all it would be this year with Runyan leaving and Rhyan unable to win the battle for that position and literally had to platoon style it. I'd bet it only happens though if he doesn't draft a swing tackle or an OT he sees shifting in.

I wouldn’t necessarily rule out anyone not on the list. It’s just a tendencies thing.

 

[DoURant]

I wouldn’t necessarily rule out anyone not on the list. It’s just a tendencies thing.

Agree, Gute has shown he will stray a little on some of his tendencies. For a recent example, last year, Reed in the 2nd rd went away from that.