Packers GM Brian Gutekunst

[OldSchool101]

Had Captain said it did nothing at all for the roster or future I'd agree with you, but he said it did nothing for the chances of winning the Super Bowl though - which I'd say he means the present. Which even those of us that disagreed with the Love pick but are Love fans (myself) know that isn't a lie.

Captains point (and others on board) is a bit rhetorical in nature. I like to let the story unfold though, verses making obvious in season proclamations about long term decisions.

We all know Love is an ongoing project, regardless of how he ends, it’s rare a QB comes in their first full season and performs at SB leading QB levels (his stated argument) Love was a Junior coming in that needed refinement and that’s why he didn’t get picked top 10.

GM moves at QB in the draft are meant for mid-long term value vs. moves made at QB in FA moreso to fill short term/immediate holes.
So to me that’s an unfair (or at minimum at least incomplete) to judge a GM making a long term position choice in the short term. Love was never going to replace Rodgers year 1. Things can be both true and rhetorical simultaneously.
I guess I’m saying, we all should let the story unfold before we close the book and write a book report.

Lastly, one could argue that the same philosophies that a GM uses to hire immediate talent are comparable (and even in conjunction) to that same philosophy at long term talent. One aspect of our GM’s global, personnel philosophy does not preclude the short term moves from the long term. They work in tandem layers like peeling an onion. We’re not done peeling yet. Some fans just can’t lick their way to get to the center of a tootsie pop without an irresistible bite. We’ve got a bunch of wise old Owls in here.

 

[Voyageur]

The stale scheme doesn't explain the skip passes to the flat or the forced 30 yard downfield pass into double coverage while the wide open run all day crossing route at 10 yards was ignored.

But, when you consider these issues, what was the result as far a interceptions? Did they increase because of these throws? If not, we can't discard the fact that he believes in his receivers, throwing into traffic, and secondly, that the low passes are to insure that they can't be undercut for INTs.

If people want to see how good is, why not post his stats against those of Tom Brady to see how they compare. When you see them, it tells the story of a player who had a better team around him, with more talent, with Brady, then with Rodgers. There's no reason to not believe that Rodgers could have done about as well as Brady, in New England.

Rodgers/Brady comparison

It's also advisable to see how Rodgers has fared against the rest of the league on average, year after year. He beats the average in nearly every category every year. Kind of amazing when you think about it. He's far from being through in this league, if he decides he wants to keep playing.

Anyhow, just my opinion, and stats to back them.

 

[ARPackFan]

Murphy should stay out of the football operations, but it's obvious, from his decision to have Ball, Gutey, and LeFleur all answer to him, that he has his fingers in the decision making. At what level, it's hard to say. Hopefully he's staying as clear as possible.

Mark Murphy reorganized the structure of the Packers where the HC & GM report directly when he relieved Ted Thompson of his duties as GM. I assume this is still the case.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/new-front-office-structure-comes-with-risk-203

The biggest departure from the old way of doing things could come in the form of what Murphy said will be weekly meetings between him and McCarthy. When asked what exactly will be discussed in those meetings, Murphy offered a rather off-putting response.

“Obviously game plans, the games, coaching positions,” Murphy said, “everything that’s under the coach’s control.”

Rodgers was in serious decline for 4 years. There is no reason to think he was going to play better these last 2 seasons. Drafting Love reignited the chip on his shoulder and he once again focused on playing QB.

As you clarified in a later post "serious decline" may have been a bit harsh, but lets look at the history of those four years -

Rodgers extension was signed in August of 2018. If there was a decline in his play in 2016 & 2017 then it's fair to assume that Gutekunst & Murphy must not have seen it as they gave him a 4 year $134M extension taking Rodgers to 2023. They also must have felt that the 2017 shoulder injury was of no concern. In a dysfunctional 2018 year with the soon to fired McCarthy and a bad knee he still managed to throw for 4442 yards / 25 TDs / 2 Int. New HC /new offense in 2019, throws for 4002 yards / 26 TDs /4 Int. and the team makes it to the NFCC.

I understand the need to be looking at QBs for the future but the optics of drafting a 1st round QB in 2020 looks like it had nothing to do with performance on the field. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that drafting Love in the 2020 draft was the result of internal conflict between Murphy / Gutekunst and Rodgers. Somehow the relationship was bad enough that a individual in the position to dictate the draft decided "F*** Aaron Rodgers, we will show him who is in charge and draft a QB" or "Aaron is to much of a loose cannon, draft a QB and let's move on"

 

[AKCheese]

Judging a QB against himself when he may have had a better team around him, was 10 years younger, and when he wasn't injured to how he performs at a given time is not really an honest evaluation.

To everyone who believed his game has slipped, it slipped so far last year that he was MVP. But, because they didn't win the Lombardi Trophy, it's all on him? You're probably going to be waiting the rest of your life to see a run of two QBs like we've had in Favre and Rodgers, and probably never see it again.

Until I see him being unable to perform at the level we've seen this year, I'm going to assume he's a pretty good QB, and capable of leading a team with decent talent to a Super Bowl win. In fact, it might happen this year. Wouldn't that be a gob smack for those who have already written him off as being too old to lead them to a championship.

What makes me wonder is why people didn't learn from the Tom Brady situation. Brady and Rodgers come from the same mold, and do whatever they can to stay healthy and on the field. It's so difficult trying to honestly judge when they will hang 'em up.

Brady wins Rodgers does not. It’s just that simple… “Oh it’s just Belechik”…. Well that one went out the window last year. Everyone is talking about what Rodgers did in the past (good and not so good). The decision going forward should be his projected performance going forward. Physically nobody knows but he’s no Tom Brady, he’s just not. He doesn’t have that something special in big games. The record speaks for itself. Mentally/attitude wise I don’t trust him. We’ve seen hid drama queen side this spring and his quibbling ethics re:his vax status/following league health mandates. If I were stuck with him I’d play it out but I wouldn’t give him any significant up front money or cripple the team cap wise if he has another meltdown or decides to replace Vanna White. Without a big ego stroking extension I think he’ll have a hissy. I’m hoping somebody offers us at least a 1st and 2nd for him in THIS years draft and we move on. If the team wins another ring in the meantime AWESOME. I think Gute and gang are playing this just right. Soothing and stroking him to get through the season. But at the end of the day, he tried to screw them and I don’t think you can mend that.

 

[AKCheese]

Mark Murphy reorganized the structure of the Packers where the HC & GM report directly when he relieved Ted Thompson of his duties as GM. I assume this is still the case.

https://cheeseheadtv.com/blog/new-front-office-structure-comes-with-risk-203

The biggest departure from the old way of doing things could come in the form of what Murphy said will be weekly meetings between him and McCarthy. When asked what exactly will be discussed in those meetings, Murphy offered a rather off-putting response.

“Obviously game plans, the games, coaching positions,” Murphy said, “everything that’s under the coach’s control.”



As you clarified in a later post "serious decline" may have been a bit harsh, but lets look at the history of those four years -

Rodgers extension was signed in August of 2018. If there was a decline in his play in 2016 & 2017 then it's fair to assume that Gutekunst & Murphy must not have seen it as they gave him a 4 year $134M extension taking Rodgers to 2023. They also must have felt that the 2017 shoulder injury was of no concern. In a dysfunctional 2018 year with the soon to fired McCarthy and a bad knee he still managed to throw for 4442 yards / 25 TDs / 2 Int. New HC /new offense in 2019, throws for 4002 yards / 26 TDs /4 Int. and the team makes it to the NFCC.

I understand the need to be looking at QBs for the future but the optics of drafting a 1st round QB in 2020 looks like it had nothing to do with performance on the field. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that drafting Love in the 2020 draft was the result of internal conflict between Murphy / Gutekunst and Rodgers. Somehow the relationship was bad enough that a individual in the position to dictate the draft decided "F*** Aaron Rodgers, we will show him who is in charge and draft a QB" or "Aaron is to much of a loose cannon, draft a QB and let's move on"

I think they traded up to get Aiyuk, SF snagged him, nobody wanted to trade with US and Love was the only other guy they had graded close to that pick. Years from now I think that’s what’s going to come out. I honestly do not think they said “holy crap Love is there let’s go get him!!”

 

[Voyageur]

Comparing Rodgers to the league

20

Brady wins Rodgers does not. It’s just that simple… “Oh it’s just Belechik”…. Well that one went out the window last year. Everyone is talking about what Rodgers did in the past (good and not so good). The decision going forward should be his projected performance going forward. Physically nobody knows but he’s no Tom Brady, he’s just not. He doesn’t have that something special in big games. The record speaks for itself. Mentally/attitude wise I don’t trust him. We’ve seen hid drama queen side this spring and his quibbling ethics re:his vax status/following league health mandates. If I were stuck with him I’d play it out but I wouldn’t give him any significant up front money or cripple the team cap wise if he has another meltdown or decides to replace Vanna White. Without a big ego stroking extension I think he’ll have a hissy. I’m hoping somebody offers us at least a 1st and 2nd for him in THIS years draft and we move on. If the team wins another ring in the meantime AWESOME. I think Gute and gang are playing this just right. Soothing and stroking him to get through the season. But at the end of the day, he tried to screw them and I don’t think you can mend that.

I agree with the fact that they are probably just playing nice with Rodgers to get past this year, but the idea that the QB alone decides the fate of a football team isn't really true. You're only as good as the team around you, and the coaching. That's not conjecture, that's fact. You either have the guys who can make plays or you don't. You either have the coaches that can scheme on both offense and defense, or you don't.

Let's look at some of Rodgers stats compared to the league.

Rodgers career average QB rating: 104.2. Not one year since 2015 where he's been average, or below average.
Not one season since 2015 where his TD ratio to passes has not been one of the highest in the league.
Only one season, 2017, where his INT percentage was dead on average in the league. He's followed that up with four uncanny seasons where the ball is not being intercepted, except in rare circumstances. It also accounts for the number of balls thrown low, to insure defenders can not get the INT in a lot of cases.
Rodgers injured in 2017. Broken collar bone. In 2018, it was an injured knee that bothered him the rest of the season. Both had a direct effect on his throwing ability as it took time for him to redevelop his rhythm, and footwork. 2019 was the year that he was regaining those parts of his game. In 2020, the results of that hard work was evident, as he won the MVP award.

TD percentages based on passes 2021: League 1.6 Rodgers 6.6
2020: League 1.7 Rodgers 9.1
2019: League 1.6 Rodgers 4.6
2018: League 1.7 Rodgers 4.2
2017: League 1.4 Rodgers 6.7
2016: League 1.5 Rodgers 6.6
2015: League 1.6 Rodgers 5.4

Percent of passes intercepted: 2021: League 2.4 Rodgers 1.0
2020: League 2.2 Rodgers 1.0
2019: League 2.3 Rodgers 0.7
2018: League 2.4 Rodgers 0.3
2017: League 2.5 Rodgers 2.5
2016: League 2.3 Rodgers 1.1
2015: League 2.4 Rodgers 1.4

QB rating by seasons: 2021: League 91.3 Rodgers 108.8
2020: League 93.6 Rodgers 121.8
2019: League 90.4 Rodgers 95.4
2018: League 92.9 Rodgers 97.6
2017: League 86.9 Rodgers 97.2
2016: League 89.3 Rodgers 104.2
2015: League 90.2 Rodgers 92.7

Rodgers Seasonal TD/INT totals: 2021: 27/8
2020: 48/7
2019: 26/6
2018: 25/2
2017: 16/4
2016: 40/5
2015: 31/4

The fact is, nobody on this board will probably ever see an QB as efficient, and steady as Rodgers again, in Green Bay, over their lifetime. I've been a Packer fan since the 40s, and in all honesty, he is far and away the best of the lot since then. If you think judging him on winning Super Bowl titles that's not legitimate. A QB can only do so much on the field. The rest of the team has to contribute to make that happen. And, if you compare him to Brady? He may have the better winning record, but Rodgers stats are just as good. The totals aren't as high, but that's because Brady has more years of service than Rodgers.

Anyhow, just my opinion.

 

[PackAttack12]

The big question at the end of this year is do you commit to him playing well into his 40’s or do you retool the team. If another team is willing to give up substantial draft capital I’d grab it in a heartbeat.

If I'm the Packers, I do everything I can to squeeze the Rodgers lemon for every ounce of juice they can get out of it. In LaFleur's system, I see no reason why Rodgers can't play solid football into his 40's. Cooler heads need to prevail and he needs to get an extension.

The way I think about it at least is that Rodgers' career as a starter can really be divided into three chapters. The first, up to 2014, saw him put up some of the greatest numbers ever and he headed some of the most prolific offenses in NFL history. The second, from 2015 to 2019, saw something of a lull. Good numbers, but not great, and teams that were not as strong as those in his early years. Some of that is attributed to a weaker WR group, McCarthy's staleness on offense, and bad drafts. Since 2020, we've seen another chapter that's basically been a renaissance where he's putting up numbers that rival or even surpass what he did early in his career. That's just how I break it down in my head.

Very good post overall, but want to key in on your point about the play makers. When Rodgers has had top notch playmakers (more than one), he's been outstanding. But early 2015 with no Nelson, teams eventually caught on to the Packers after the first few weeks where Rodgers was playing like the early season MVP candidate. I think mid 2015 to mid 2016 was a product of losing Jordy and some other key playmakers in spots, and it taking an extremely long time for he and McCarthy to adjust the offense to a more precision/quick strike offense. That's what got him back on track.

And then Nelson leaves, Cobb banged up, pre-Davante emergence, and Rodgers struggled mightily again. It's like I mentioned previously, you have to have really good 1-on-1 receivers for McCarthy's system to work. LaFleur's is much more effective with lesser talent.

I think that's what happened more than anything.

I understand the need to be looking at QBs for the future but the optics of drafting a 1st round QB in 2020 looks like it had nothing to do with performance on the field. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that drafting Love in the 2020 draft was the result of internal conflict between Murphy / Gutekunst and Rodgers. Somehow the relationship was bad enough that a individual in the position to dictate the draft decided "F*** Aaron Rodgers, we will show him who is in charge and draft a QB" or "Aaron is to much of a loose cannon, draft a QB and let's move on"

I think there's absolutely no question that Gutekunst was sort of feeling himself after a couple years of successful talent acquisition and wanted to find "his" guy at quarterback.

Some obviously disagree, but I thought it was extremely premature and short sighted.

Brady wins Rodgers does not. It’s just that simple… “Oh it’s just Belechik”…. Well that one went out the window last year. Everyone is talking about what Rodgers did in the past (good and not so good). The decision going forward should be his projected performance going forward. Physically nobody knows but he’s no Tom Brady, he’s just not. He doesn’t have that something special in big games. The record speaks for itself. Mentally/attitude wise I don’t trust him. We’ve seen hid drama queen side this spring and his quibbling ethics re:his vax status/following league health mandates. If I were stuck with him I’d play it out but I wouldn’t give him any significant up front money or cripple the team cap wise if he has another meltdown or decides to replace Vanna White. Without a big ego stroking extension I think he’ll have a hissy. I’m hoping somebody offers us at least a 1st and 2nd for him in THIS years draft and we move on. If the team wins another ring in the meantime AWESOME. I think Gute and gang are playing this just right. Soothing and stroking him to get through the season. But at the end of the day, he tried to screw them and I don’t think you can mend that.

Not going to dive real deep into this, but it's really actually not this simple. Troy Aikman wins and Dan Marino does not. Is it that simple? Of course not. Marino was far superior to Aikman, but Aikman had a team and coaching around him.

Rodgers has better overall numbers in the playoffs across the board no matter which metric you decide to use over Brady. Quite literally any individual category, including efficiency statistics. So that obviously leads you to look at the other aspects of their teams (defense, ST's, coaching) of which Brady has had far superior teams in those categories over the years.

Here's a little nugget: Aaron Rodgers is the only quarterback in NFL history to have 3 playoff losses in games where he threw 3+ passing TD's.

He's also the guy whose defenses give up an average of roughly 37 points per game in playoff losses throughout his career. Want to know what happened on the three occasions in which Brady's team gave up 37 or more? They LOST.

How about another nugget: Rodgers has never scored less than 20 points in a playoff game. NEVER. Tom Brady has scored 20 or less in playoff games 13 times. So again....what does that tell you?

I mean, Rodgers was a special teams knuckle head doing his damn job of getting to another Super Bowl. You never see that garbage from a team Brady is on.

But I digress. I could spew all kinds of facts out there, but most that just don't like Rodgers go with the lazy, half baked idea of "WeLl oNe GuY wInS aNd tHe oThEr GuY dOeSnTtTtTtTttttttttt".

 

[Voyageur]

I understand the need to be looking at QBs for the future but the optics of drafting a 1st round QB in 2020 looks like it had nothing to do with performance on the field. My guess (and it is just a guess) is that drafting Love in the 2020 draft was the result of internal conflict between Murphy / Gutekunst and Rodgers. Somehow the relationship was bad enough that a individual in the position to dictate the draft decided "F*** Aaron Rodgers, we will show him who is in charge and draft a QB" or "Aaron is to much of a loose cannon, draft a QB and let's move on"

I think there's absolutely no question that Gutekunst was sort of feeling himself after a couple years of successful talent acquisition and wanted to find "his" guy at quarterback.
Some obviously disagree, but I thought it was extremely premature and short sighted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------​

There should be little doubt that Gutey wanted to put his mark on this team as soon as possible. Anyone in his position would want to do that. Even though he'd made some good moves in restocking, there was always the onus that the reason they were winning, and looked good, was LeFleur and Rodgers. Gutey was "riding their coattails." It wasn't a fact, it was a possible perception.

To set it straight, in Gutey's mind, he had to make a move that cemented his role in the future of the team. I think he chose that route through a bold move to get Love. I also believe, that after he did it, and down the road, he regretted the decision. But, that's just a guess.

Excellent discussion points.

 

[OldSchool101]

Brady wins Rodgers does not. It’s just that simple… “Oh it’s just Belechik”…. Well that one went out the window last year.

While I don’t necessarily root for the Patriots. I’m absolutely amazed at how quickly Bill’s O got back inside the top 10. Then you look at his D and if that doesn’t sell you on his capable he is at managing?
Nothing will.

 

[AKCheese]

While I don’t necessarily root for the Patriots. I’m absolutely amazed at how quickly Bill’s O got back inside the top 10. Then you look at his D and if that doesn’t sell you on his capable he is at managing?
Nothing will.

Not saying he’s not capable. Brady won a ring without him. Brady finds ways to win. Rodgers does not. Maybe he will this year but last year it was all there. He didn’t get it done. Brady did.

 

[Voyageur]

Not saying he’s not capable. Brady won a ring without him. Brady finds ways to win. Rodgers does not. Maybe he will this year but last year it was all there. He didn’t get it done. Brady did.

I wonder how many QBs could have stepped in and won a ring with the team in place down in Tampa Bay? Especially after Brady's buddy showed up to play TE. What would have happened if it was Drew Brees? Any one of the better NFL QBs, including Rodgers?

I think Rodgers duplicates what Brady did. That doesn't diminish the Brady impact. It just states that it takes more than one player to win games. You need the players around him, and you can't make it that far if your defense isn't good enough to keep the opposition from scoring often. Let's look at playoff stats. Specifically, the losses while Rodgers was the QB. I believe this information is accurate, if someone cares to check it, and point out any errors, I'd appreciate it. I don't think there would be much of an error.

Scores in playoff game losses: Packers score first
20-23 OT
45-51 OT
20-37
31-45
20-23
22-28 OT
20-26 OT
21-44
20-37
26-31

Four losses in OT, and 5 games where the defense couldn't have stopped a D3 college from scoring. That tells me that there's more to it than saying that Rodgers "can't win the big one." It looks like the defense could have done a lot more to help win games.

It takes a lot of guys out there to win, or lose games, not just one. Those OT games are what plagues him, and the Packers most, and that isn't solely on him.

 

[PackAttack12]

Not saying he’s not capable. Brady won a ring without him. Brady finds ways to win. Rodgers does not. Maybe he will this year but last year it was all there. He didn’t get it done. Brady did.

Of course you ignore solid counter points and come back with the same weak sauce. Your "argument" if that's what you could even call it is lame.

 

[thequick12]

Brady wins Rodgers does not. It’s just that simple… “Oh it’s just Belechik”…. Well that one went out the window last year. Everyone is talking about what Rodgers did in the past (good and not so good). The decision going forward should be his projected performance going forward. Physically nobody knows but he’s no Tom Brady, he’s just not. He doesn’t have that something special in big games. The record speaks for itself. Mentally/attitude wise I don’t trust him. We’ve seen hid drama queen side this spring and his quibbling ethics re:his vax status/following league health mandates. If I were stuck with him I’d play it out but I wouldn’t give him any significant up front money or cripple the team cap wise if he has another meltdown or decides to replace Vanna White. Without a big ego stroking extension I think he’ll have a hissy. I’m hoping somebody offers us at least a 1st and 2nd for him in THIS years draft and we move on. If the team wins another ring in the meantime AWESOME. I think Gute and gang are playing this just right. Soothing and stroking him to get through the season. But at the end of the day, he tried to screw them and I don’t think you can mend that.

Theyll have offers better than just a first and a 2nd that much is clear...but theres a reason that theyre gonna have those offers on the table

Aaron Rodgers is still the best qb in the NFL...do you really wanna trade that?

I doubt gute does and im sure hes gonna do everything he can to extend him

 

[red4tribe]

I've always felt that Brady has some sort of intangibles that make him so successful. I've never been able to put my finger on it, but there's something about him that doesn't show up on the stat sheet that most other QBs don't have.

 

[thequick12]

Its competitiveness...he just wants it the most

 

[PackAttack12]

Theyll have offers better than just a first and a 2nd that much is clear...but theres a reason that theyre gonna have those offers on the table

Aaron Rodgers is still the best qb in the NFL...do you really wanna trade that?

I doubt gute does and im sure hes gonna do everything he can to extend him

As much as I think Gute wanted to transition to 'his' guy and to really put his stamp on the Packers, I don't think he believed Rodgers would reel off 2 straight MVP type seasons.

If so, I highly doubt he selects Love.

 

[ARPackFan]

Its competitiveness...he just wants it the most

That and a top 10 rated defense in points allowed 17 out of 20 years. Top 5 in 7 of those.

 

[PackAttack12]

That and a top 10 rated defense in points allowed 17 out of 20 years. Top 5 in 7 of those.

Yeah that helps, huh?

 

[Voyageur]

That and a top 10 rated defense in points allowed 17 out of 20 years. Top 5 in 7 of those.

It makes a huge difference. You don't need as many points to win, taking pressure off the offense, and it means you allow your offense to control the ball, and the clock.

 

[PackAttack12]

It makes a huge difference. You don't need as many points to win, taking pressure off the offense, and it means you allow your offense to control the ball, and the clock.

Completely different brand of football.

 

[C-Lee]

OP is worst poster of all time

 

[PackAttack12]

OP is worst poster of all time

Idk about the worst, but he's certainly in the running.

 

[OldSchool101]

Not saying he’s not capable. Brady won a ring without him. Brady finds ways to win. Rodgers does not. Maybe he will this year but last year it was all there. He didn’t get it done. Brady did.

Brady is a great QB.
Brady was also handed the keys to a BMW 700 series.
The 2019 Tampa Offense was the #3 rated scoring Offense in 2019. They did that with a QB who threw for 30 INT!! Think about that! What would the 2019 Tampa O have been with Aaron Rodgers?!!

Brady was brought in as a definitive upgrade over Winston, which didn’t take much. Brady matched Winston at a #3 Offense, but brought much stability to the turnover area.

It was actually the Tampa Defense that was the real story of 2020. The year before Tampa ranked #29 in scoring allowed. The 2020 Tampa D finished at #8 overall and was one of the hottest D units going into the playoffs.
Had you put Aaron Rodgers on that 2020 team instead of Brady, he’d have a SB ring also imo. I think Tom Brady is great, but all other things = Rodgers is every bit as good a QB. We found out how that worked with Peyton Manning and many others also.
I understand that the QB is the leader (gets 100% of the accolades) however having a great Defense is imperative in playoff success.

Brady has NEVER carried a Defense outside the top #8 overall. NEVER
Every last SB he’s won has been in conjunction with a tremendous Defense..

Brady Defenses ranked outside top #10
2002 #15 ranked Missed postseason
2005 #17 ranked lost Divisional
2012 #15 ranked lost SB

See a pattern here? No good Defense.. No good finish
Brady’s 7 SB Defenses have an average ranking rounded to #4 overall. (#4.125 to be exact).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The big question at the end of this year is do you commit to him playing well into his 40’s or do you retool the team. If another team is willing to give up substantial draft capital I’d grab it in a heartbeat.

The Packers would convert from a contender to a team missing the playoffs in a heartbeat. Hope you're ready for that to happen as well.

In terms of physical decline, the only thing I've noticed is that he isn't quite as mobile anymore. The arm strength and accuracy are all still there, but I don't think he escapes sacks as well as he once did and his ability to scramble has fallen off a bit. But obviously, he's proven that he doesn't need 27-year-old legs to be the top QB in the league.

Actually Rodgers' sack percentage of 4.5% of his dropbacks over the past two seasons is significantly below his career average of 6.6%.

Captains point (and others on board) is a bit rhetorical in nature. I like to let the story unfold though, verses making obvious in season proclamations about long term decisions.

We all know Love is an ongoing project, regardless of how he ends, it’s rare a QB comes in their first full season and performs at SB leading QB levels (his stated argument) Love was a Junior coming in that needed refinement and that’s why he didn’t get picked top 10.

GM moves at QB in the draft are meant for mid-long term value vs. moves made at QB in FA moreso to fill short term/immediate holes.
So to me that’s an unfair (or at minimum at least incomplete) to judge a GM making a long term position choice in the short term. Love was never going to replace Rodgers year 1. Things can be both true and rhetorical simultaneously.
I guess I’m saying, we all should let the story unfold before we close the book and write a book report.

My point wasn't that Love should have been performing at a Super Bowl level in year 1 but that the Packers drafting him didn't improve their chances of winning one in the short term.

TD percentages based on passes 2021: League 1.6 Rodgers 6.6
2020: League 1.7 Rodgers 9.1
2019: League 1.6 Rodgers 4.6
2018: League 1.7 Rodgers 4.2
2017: League 1.4 Rodgers 6.7
2016: League 1.5 Rodgers 6.6
2015: League 1.6 Rodgers 5.4

Your numbers on the league touchdown percentage on pass plays are off as from 2015-21 4.0% of them have resulted in a TD.

Not saying he’s not capable. Brady won a ring without him. Brady finds ways to win. Rodgers does not. Maybe he will this year but last year it was all there. He didn’t get it done. Brady did.

Brady tried everything to lose the NFCCG, throwing three interceptions in the game. But like it happened for him most of his career the defense bailed him out.

Let's look at playoff stats. Specifically, the losses while Rodgers was the QB. I believe this information is accurate, if someone cares to check it, and point out any errors, I'd appreciate it. I don't think there would be much of an error.

Scores in playoff game losses: Packers score first
20-23 OT
45-51 OT
20-37
31-45
20-23
22-28 OT
20-26 OT
21-44
20-37
26-31

Four losses in OT, and 5 games where the defense couldn't have stopped a D3 college from scoring. That tells me that there's more to it than saying that Rodgers "can't win the big one." It looks like the defense could have done a lot more to help win games.

Favre was still playing in 2007 when the Packers lost to the Giants 23-20 in overtime in the NFCCG. I agree with your main point that the Packers giving up an average of 35.8 points in those losses hugely contributed to the team not having made it to another Super Bowl.

 

[red4tribe]

Actually Rodgers' sack percentage of 4.5% of his dropbacks over the past two seasons is significantly below his career average of 6.6%.

That doesn't mean that Rodgers isn't less mobile than he once was. His sack percentage dropped once Lafleur came in with an offensive scheme that put more emphasis on quick passes and scheming people open, as opposed to McCarthy's which tried to take longer chunks down the field. That's why he doesn't get sacked as much anymore, not his mobility. Rodgers rushing has also declined. The last two seasons are the only in his career where he has averaged single-digit YPG rushing.